BIRMINGHAM - 6
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What the hell is resorts world?
Has the current runway shifted north, or the station south?
How much capacity do you lose with slightly off parallel runways?
Has the current runway shifted north, or the station south?
How much capacity do you lose with slightly off parallel runways?
Current runway/station looks to be in the correct place, a quick look at google maps or similar shows it almost in parallel with rwy33 threshold. The new 'terminal development' is the HS2 station.
The new runway development is where the current landfill site is along side the A452 behind Melbicks garden centre! Interesting indeed, that would be one hell of a taxi and the picture suggests it would be along the north side of the A45. That would take some doing
Has Paul Kehoe and the BHX management team completely fallen off their collective trolley?
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Current runway/station looks to be in the correct place, a quick look at google maps or similar shows it almost in parallel with rwy33 threshold.
The new 'terminal development' is the HS2 station.
the picture suggests it would be along the north side of the A45. That would take some doing
I don't quite get how this substantial new leisure development is going to react to a huge taxiway going past its frontage, but for us aerosexuals, the view from that "VIP Sky Bar" would get quite interesting
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Crewmeal,
They couldn't even afford to build the A45 bridge and had to drop the run on/off 150m starter strip planned at the end of the runway extension, to make the project affordable.
So who would pay for all this ?
BHX needs to secure a couple of long haul routes in the next 12 months and forget about all this 70 million passenger sillyness.
Nigel
They couldn't even afford to build the A45 bridge and had to drop the run on/off 150m starter strip planned at the end of the runway extension, to make the project affordable.
So who would pay for all this ?
BHX needs to secure a couple of long haul routes in the next 12 months and forget about all this 70 million passenger sillyness.
Nigel
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So who would pay for all this ?
I suppose it would still be cheaper than Fantasy Boris Island, although no idea exactly where a 3rd / 4th runway would go! Back to the original plans for R2?
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Not really, the southern edge of the station is a train length to the north of the threshold. I know this is only a concept map, but this sort of thing is quite important when it comes to getting the diggers out.
So actually quite unprecedented. Historically, rail lines have been brought in to airports, but this must be the first airport configured around (as opposed to merely being built adjacent to) a railway line.
) then you have to wait for and transfer on on one of these..... worth it? I'm not sure. 
That would take some doing
Well you'd have to move fuel farms first, but fuel doesn't think, so doable. Then you'd have to shift some of those offices, again, doable at a cost.
I don't quite get how this substantial new leisure development is going to react to a huge taxiway going past its frontage, but for us aerosexuals, the view from that "VIP Sky Bar" would get quite interesting.
Well you'd have to move fuel farms first, but fuel doesn't think, so doable. Then you'd have to shift some of those offices, again, doable at a cost.
I don't quite get how this substantial new leisure development is going to react to a huge taxiway going past its frontage, but for us aerosexuals, the view from that "VIP Sky Bar" would get quite interesting.
Hell why don't they just build a taxiway right over the terminal/NEC. Most direct route and probably more realistic.All this for the much needed second runway....
BHX needs to secure a couple of long haul routes in the next 12 months and forget about all this 70 million passenger sillyness.
Nigel
Agree with your sentiments about the 70 million sillyness - and would add the 250,000 extra jobs - it's all pure fantasy. and great fodder for local journalists to get their teeth into. I'm quite surprised that London journalists haven't been extracting the urine to be honest - but I suppose we should be grateful for that at least!
However, forget the long haul; proper new medium haul routes (not yet more duplication on bucket and spade and short break leisure destinations) is what BHX should be targeting.
BHX needs to secure a couple of long haul routes in the next 12 months and forget about all this 70 million passenger sillyness.
However, forget the long haul; proper new medium haul routes (not yet more duplication on bucket and spade and short break leisure destinations) is what BHX should be targeting.
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However, forget the long haul; proper new medium haul routes
BHX wants to attract long haul routes, yet, it needs to show it can handle the long haul traffic by proving demand through its other flights.
For example, if BHX can get more people to connect via other hubs, it will prove there is a market and attract the routes it desires. However, it seems that market needs to improve, when you look at the following routes:
-Lufthansa often use the A319/B737 for BHX-FRA, and even has had to cut the route to 3 daily in Jan/Feb when it could get an A321 on the route if demand for connections increases. Even EDI sees more A321 flights from LH!
-Lufthansa again use the E195 for BHX-MUC. Lots of connection potential so, if this was being exploited, an A319/A320 would be used.
-Swiss, who again offered good connections, have had to cut down to 2 daily and use the F100/Avro. If demand was being exploited, the 3rd daily would continue and the A319/A320 would be used.
-Air France, they use their A318 jets, occasionally subbing for larger equipment. If long haul connections were being exploited, there would be the A321.
The list could go on.
However, the point is, if BHX has 'the second largest long haul demand in the UK', then why are these carriers, who offer well timed connections via their hubs, struggling to justify the use of larger aircraft, and, improving the number of flights?
Whilst it is obviously important to keep an eye on long haul opportunities, BHX really needs to focus on improving short haul, not only chasing the routes to MAD/VIE/WAW etc, but, trying to get the carriers it has to increase, get the connections market on the up and prove that there is a market.
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Andrew,
What are you calling medium haul, more flights to Middle East thats about 6/7 hours and fits that category.
I think BHX are right to continue to target both short, medium, long haul at the same time..why would you just want to target just one category when you have just spent millions on a runway extension for long haul ?
They have been talking to numerous large European airlines I believe recently. It is likely any new service gets a free first year then a sliding scale upwards, any other major UK airport..
I don't understand what more you expect to BHX do . There was an Easy Jet contingent at BHX only a few months ago being shown round, and Im told Norwegian have also been at BHX.
BHX is and should continue to try and attract ALL airlines whether they are near or far.
Nigel
What are you calling medium haul, more flights to Middle East thats about 6/7 hours and fits that category.
I think BHX are right to continue to target both short, medium, long haul at the same time..why would you just want to target just one category when you have just spent millions on a runway extension for long haul ?
They have been talking to numerous large European airlines I believe recently. It is likely any new service gets a free first year then a sliding scale upwards, any other major UK airport..
I don't understand what more you expect to BHX do . There was an Easy Jet contingent at BHX only a few months ago being shown round, and Im told Norwegian have also been at BHX.
BHX is and should continue to try and attract ALL airlines whether they are near or far.
Nigel
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Chinapattern; re your words;
Air India
"Not that any of us believed it would be a reality "
Well your going to have to do some serious hat eating if they announce a new service from BHX aren't you ! LOL.
Nigel
Air India
"Not that any of us believed it would be a reality "
Well your going to have to do some serious hat eating if they announce a new service from BHX aren't you ! LOL.
Nigel
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There has been recent comment regarding a third daily EK and first class ex BHX on EK. I take about 5 business class trips a year to Thailand. Usually I will fly from Amsterdam at about £1,500 on LX or OS. Add in the cost of a KL flight to get there and you're still saving £700 - £900 over what EK is asking for substandard business class seats out of BHX.
I have just got back from my latest trip which was on EY out of that airport in the north west we're not allowed to mention. The fare was just over £1,700 and that included a chauffeur drive car to and from my home in Birmingham.
My view is that EK are getting sufficient people prepared to pay the high fares they charge but that introducing a third flight would not generate sufficient extra yield to justify it. Given that they quite often use a 3 class aircraft on the BHX route, I don't understand why they don't officially market a first class product.
I have just got back from my latest trip which was on EY out of that airport in the north west we're not allowed to mention. The fare was just over £1,700 and that included a chauffeur drive car to and from my home in Birmingham.
My view is that EK are getting sufficient people prepared to pay the high fares they charge but that introducing a third flight would not generate sufficient extra yield to justify it. Given that they quite often use a 3 class aircraft on the BHX route, I don't understand why they don't officially market a first class product.
Nigel
What I'm expecting them not to do is waste time with wildly overoptimistic grandeose plans that get column centimetres in the press and airtime on the broadcast media but do diddly squat to bring new business (and therefore revenue and hopefully profit for the shareholders).
If the long haul market is a hard nut to crack, putting more energy into the European and near east market may prove to be a better way forward to boost business. I really cannot see EasyJet bringing anything new to the table, just more competition for existing carriers - unless they chose to develop BHX more on the lines of their LGW and MAN operations. I really don't see there is enough leisure business to sustain daily services by the like of EZY to major European capitals. Those routes need legacy carriers offer interline arrangements for business travellers to boost yields and make services, such as MAD, VIE, HEL, viable.
Reading my, and various other postings, I sometimes think we're all a bit like soccer fans baying for the head of the manager of their favourite club because they've only won 2 of their last 4 home games. I'd really like to think that the airport management is more professional than football managers (businesswise that is) and would like to think that equally we (as "fans" of our local airport) are also less short termist and fickle!
I don't understand what more you expect to BHX do . There was an Easy Jet contingent at BHX only a few months ago being shown round, and Im told Norwegian have also been at BHX.
If the long haul market is a hard nut to crack, putting more energy into the European and near east market may prove to be a better way forward to boost business. I really cannot see EasyJet bringing anything new to the table, just more competition for existing carriers - unless they chose to develop BHX more on the lines of their LGW and MAN operations. I really don't see there is enough leisure business to sustain daily services by the like of EZY to major European capitals. Those routes need legacy carriers offer interline arrangements for business travellers to boost yields and make services, such as MAD, VIE, HEL, viable.
Reading my, and various other postings, I sometimes think we're all a bit like soccer fans baying for the head of the manager of their favourite club because they've only won 2 of their last 4 home games. I'd really like to think that the airport management is more professional than football managers (businesswise that is) and would like to think that equally we (as "fans" of our local airport) are also less short termist and fickle!
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Norwegian
Birmingham would fit Norwegian's growth plans, they generally avoid head to head with FR and FR are not a big player at BHX compared with EMA, but would have no concerns about going head to head with Monarch, who's costs are far higher, they would probably start with the Canary Isles route much as they have done in LGW along with ALC/AGP & Scandinavian routes before spreading their winglets into city break routes.
The traffic numbers have been very impressive from London Gatwick on the Med & LPA routes, but the prices are designed to build market share and product awareness.
The traffic numbers have been very impressive from London Gatwick on the Med & LPA routes, but the prices are designed to build market share and product awareness.
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Thank you BHX team
I would like to thank PK and his team for again making a laughing stock stock out of BHX and to feed the usual PPruner marksmen North and south with more fodder to sling back at us.
London & Man are fab , BHX is ordinary at best , BHX will not attract the big business that fills the front end of long haul aircraft , BHX will not be a hub for any scheduled airline (short/long haul) The people in the BHX catchment area will always travel to other airports to save a few quid. BHX is too expensive.
Yep , thats just about covered 4 pages of thread in a few sentences.
London & Man are fab , BHX is ordinary at best , BHX will not attract the big business that fills the front end of long haul aircraft , BHX will not be a hub for any scheduled airline (short/long haul) The people in the BHX catchment area will always travel to other airports to save a few quid. BHX is too expensive.
Yep , thats just about covered 4 pages of thread in a few sentences.
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"Not that any of us believed it would be a reality "
I would like to thank PK and his team for again making a laughing stock stock out of BHX and to feed the usual PPruner marksmen North and south with more fodder to sling back at us.
Off-topic a bit, some ideas of this viewing area - http://i42.tinypic.com/53ssxy.jpg or the preferable http://i39.tinypic.com/254y5i8.jpg. Just simple sketches to get an idea of the possiblity.
But, I'm not sure if a second runway really is needed. Many international airports have managed fine off one runway - they could just do with expanding the terminal when needed.
Last edited by Planeaddict; 13th Jun 2013 at 17:23.
Planeaddict
No, but surely you see that whole point is that the alleged plans are just "pie in the sky" and are so outrageous as to attract ridicule. The amazing, and thankful thing is that The Daily Mail hasn't picked them up and made a laughing stock of the airport.
As regards Air Algerie, did they ever "state their desire to open up BHX"? I think not.
I would like to thank PK and his team for again making a laughing stock stock out of BHX and to feed the usual PPruner marksmen North and south with more fodder to sling back at us.
Was this stated in an article or?
Was this stated in an article or?
As regards Air Algerie, did they ever "state their desire to open up BHX"? I think not.
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BHX expansion plans
Some of the recent offerings have been well thought out, others not so, and some I fear could be very close to what could be termed defamatory.
It would be wise to accept that PK and his management team do not and cannot treat BHX as their personal fiefdom but IMHO would be working to a strategy that has been approved and is supported by the board of directors and shareholders.
What success this will bring is difficult to quantify and it may be several months before we see evidence that diligence and hard work may have borne some fruit. We all hope it will.
To express the comment thanking 'PK and his team for again making a laughing stock stock out of BHX' couldbe termed injurious to his and their professional standing.
I quote you: 'Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, or traducement—is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation'.
I am not involved with the running of BHX but after 45 years in the media I know only too well how easy it is to cross that line between fair and honest criticism and libel...
Those are my personal views.
It would be wise to accept that PK and his management team do not and cannot treat BHX as their personal fiefdom but IMHO would be working to a strategy that has been approved and is supported by the board of directors and shareholders.
What success this will bring is difficult to quantify and it may be several months before we see evidence that diligence and hard work may have borne some fruit. We all hope it will.
To express the comment thanking 'PK and his team for again making a laughing stock stock out of BHX' couldbe termed injurious to his and their professional standing.
I quote you: 'Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, or traducement—is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation'.
I am not involved with the running of BHX but after 45 years in the media I know only too well how easy it is to cross that line between fair and honest criticism and libel...
Those are my personal views.