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Old 26th Jul 2014, 08:38
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Tim Jeans is I believe is torch bearer at Monarch

---------------------------------------------------

Skippy as an "aviation analyst" why not give us your views on exactly what we s/b discussing ?

Marketing , no not keen on that ....!

Local transport , Trains, yuck definetily not keen on that !

Building Infrastructure, no not keen on that .....!

Strategy, no not keen on that......!

Movements/Diversions maybe, hmmm bit spotterish, no not keen on that !

UK Capacity maybe, ah the sweet taste of consenus, but seemingly that only effects LHR so NO we can't discuss on MAN as we are merely a regional, (don't want to infect Westminster policymakers with some pesky expansion up North).

Is it rumours/routes if so Lax provides some excellent info , but hold fast , he also seems to get it in the neck.

I'm genuinely not sure what is left !

Do we really have to hold up a an illuminated sarcasm sign every time somebody posts something with which you disagree ?

So with that in mind , fire away the floor as they say is yours

Last edited by Bagso; 26th Jul 2014 at 12:37.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 10:25
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Another great post by Shed - hits the nail on the head.
I'm trying to find out the people / department responsible for the chopping of the bus subsidies. These subsidies were part of the "deal" for the second runway and the 2030 strategy for shifting passengers and staff from car to public transport.
The point is, MAG has become invisible, apart from offering breakfast vouchers, they appear to not want to engage with people.
Twitter posts are lamentable and don't even think of getting a reply from customer services.

By the way Bagso, Tim Jeans left Monarch in 2011. I think he is involved with Canadian Affair these days & maybe other companies too.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 10:56
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UK/China Bilateral

Is it true that the bilateral with China was signed mid July?

If so can we expect the imminent announcement of MAN - BJS on CA?
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 11:49
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Skipness … I do understand your point, but your comment amply demonstrates that your location is remote from Manchester Airport and the issues which affect the site.

If you were at Manchester Airport you would see the new Metrolink infrastructure which has now reached Manchester Airport Interchange. Services should commence by the end of 2014. Metrolink will be a godsend to a number of airport staff (notably shiftworkers), some of whom read PPRuNe. If you were at Manchester Airport you would see preparations for the fourth 'heavy rail' platform at the airport station. You would also see the new trains which now operate hourly between Manchester Airport Station and Scotland. These alternate between Glasgow and Edinburgh, then link Carlisle and points South to Manchester Airport. Carlisle to Manchester Airport now takes H2.11 with no changes required. All part of the 'Northern Hub' enhancements which also improve access between Manchester Airport and points east of the Pennines beyond Leeds. Hence we discuss trains. Lots of trains.
Ringway is particularly well served by rail, and now tram, services. Indeed, direct rail access from a large swathe of the country is one of its unique selling points (USPs), so it would be difficult for discussions of this form of surface access to be excluded from the thread.

Have always thought that the third and fourth platform at the airport station should have been built simultaneously - it was obvious back then that a fourth would be needed sooner rather than later.

By the way, this is written from a location remote from Ringway, 200 or so miles south south east.


UK Capacity maybe, ah the sweet taste of consenus, but seemingly that only effects LHR so NO we can't discuss on MAN as we are merely a regional, (don't want to infect Westminster policymakers with some pesky expansion up North).
Don’t talk Ringway down, it is an important part of the UK’s aviation structure and the most important apart from Heathrow/Gatwick. It’s much more than just a regional airport.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 12:12
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EgyptAir - Cairo giving cause for concern
Just to repeat what was said earlier in the thread, Egyptair are operating CAI-MAN this winter, they are always late putting the next seasons flights on offer due the current CAI-UK bilaterals.

The late loading of flights has happened every season since they restarted.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 15:06
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LAX

Just to repeat what was said earlier in the thread, Egyptair are operating CAI-MAN this winter, they are always late putting the next seasons flights on offer due the current CAI-UK bilaterals

Is that UK Cairo bilaterals OR Cairo -Manchester ?

Do you happen to know if they have same issue out of LHR ?
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 19:49
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Is that UK Cairo bilaterals OR Cairo -Manchester
It is a UK wide policy.

UK-rest of Egypt is unlimited, however Cairo is subject to bilaterals.

LHR-CAI has a permanent long standing agreement, but carriers have to apply to up frequency. Equipment type is allowed to be changed.

MAN-CAI runs on a temporary licence, that has to be applied for each season. Egyptair have applied for a long term licence, but Im not sure why its taking so long to grant.

On the subject of bilaterals:

Is it true that the bilateral with China was signed mid July?
It was due but not signed yet. Air China have spent their own money trying to get an addendum to add Manchester flights, but as yet has not been granted.
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 19:56
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Worth noting that the Manchester destination page on Vueling now lists many connecting possibilities.

Cant be just charter flights offering all that?
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 20:02
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Hi

Whats wrong with the TOM145 today? Is it cancelled?
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 21:18
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Whats wrong with the TOM145 today? Is it cancelled?
Still listed as arriving on-time at 06.40 tomorrow morning.

Do you know something otherwise?
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Old 26th Jul 2014, 21:49
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Re Egyptair and Air China.

Totally unacceptable if what we are hearing is correct.

This would be fixed with a swipe of ink if it were London.

So where are the "custodians of Manchester", don't forget they hold the keys, they do not however have entitlement to them.

Are they kicking in doors, even at 2300 on Sat night ?

AND the Hounorable Member for Wythenshawe Labour ..hellooooo

AND The Honourable Leader of the 1922 backbenchers a local fellow ATory last seen suggesting RW3 is a splendid idea.

What the hell are they doing in respect of this ?

Bloody hell if there were gongs handed out for "relaxed complacency" we would have a queue up here.

This is simply not good enough !

Last edited by Bagso; 26th Jul 2014 at 22:04.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 07:32
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Hi TSR2


Family on the flight said flight was cancelled, which im guessing why its now due at 21:55


Regards
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 08:52
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Are there any updates with regards to the long haul route for next summer? All seems to have gone fairly quiet on that front.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 09:10
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Are there any updates with regards to the long haul route for next summer?
All seems to have gone fairly quiet on that front.
The airline in question has now begun to announce new routes for next summer, so, if the rumours are true, we should see some movement soon.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 10:32
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Well if rumours are correct then Delta has just announced Salt Lake City to Amsterdam for Summer 2015. Delta seemed to be the front runner on the rumour front. Fingers crossed for an announcement from which ever airline it maybe.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 19:17
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Re Egyptair and Air China.

Totally unacceptable if what we are hearing is correct.

This would be fixed with a swipe of ink if it were London.

So where are the "custodians of Manchester", don't forget they hold the keys, they do not however have entitlement to them.

Are they kicking in doors, even at 2300 on Sat night ?


BAGSO
Quite right.
What we need is a 2014 version of the dynamic duo of Gil Thompson and Margaret Thatcher who fixed it for SQ and AA - who are both still here 25 years later.
Where is the fire in the belly from back then?

Problem ==Solution == Sorted == Carry on.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 19:28
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Shed - very perceptive posts on here as usual, making the important points that infrastructure, access and marketing issues are integral to the health - or otherwise - of the airport. Anyone who does not realise that should not be in the airports' business......So entirely legitimate points to make in any discussion about Manchester.

Some interesting recollections of some of the "visible people" in days gone by. Paul Connellan is still around the aviation business and Tim Jeans was of course a big cheese at Ryanair before going to Monarch and then onwards. These faces and more were to be found at Gil's memorial service last year.

A big re-shuffle of Airport middle and junior management took place in 2006 when the airline marketing side was reduced to a small number and numerous other departments were also reduced in size. I am given to understand that re-organisations have been commonplace thereafter, so I wonder how many people stay in the same post for any length of time. In the days Shed is talking about there was a certain longevity to organisational structures and faces which I suspect enabled people to "get under the skin" of their subject. Which in those days was of course only Manchester ...Now it's a group with multiple airports to look after, maybe the focus is lost?

Once upon a time Airline Marketing, Marketing and PR were quite well integrated. Have no idea how it is done now and I kept arguing with Bagso that things must be happening behind closed doors and he just wasn't seeing them. But it would seem from what I read here that the actual flight and promotional messages are not even getting out, rather than getting out and having no effect. So sorry Bagso.

It also seems entirely frustrating that the Airport is still reportedly having a problem with bilaterals after all the decades of effort put into lobbying and influencing. Gil would have had his team "kicking in doors, even at 2300 on Sat night" and local MPs would have been mobilised to get the Chinese thing sorted. Is this going on and we just don't know? Let's hope so and that some good news will be forthcoming soon.

Donít talk Ringway down, it is an important part of the UKís aviation structure and the most important apart from Heathrow/Gatwick. Itís much more than just a regional airport.
Don't think people are - but they are arguing it could be a lot better if some of the basics were done correctly - especially when it had such a good record in the past.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 19:59
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What we need is a 2014 version of the dynamic duo of Gil Thompson and Margaret Thatcher who fixed it for SQ and AA - who are both still here 25 years later.
Just for some political balance, there were a fair few successes too under the Labour administrations. Most of this was done in conjunction with the airline and government departments in the background rather than the high profile public campaigns concerning AA and SQ.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 20:23
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Suzeman, I'm sure you are right about the changes in management and its structure that have taken place at MAN.

As I understand it, there was a period of years when management consultants were brought in several times to assess the structure and personnel involved.
Consequently, staff were having to re-apply for their existing job or to apply for new posts. I imagine it must have been a difficult and unsettling time for junior and middle management employees.

Interesting if Paul Connellan is still around in the aviation business. Was he still at MAN when Gil retired do you recall? I met him but can't just place the time scale relative to when Gil retired and GM was eventually appointed.

When you refer to Airline Marketing I assume you mean what became known as Business Development (on the Aviation side). I'm sure those guys work hard to court airlines, win new business and build relationships with them, not least to help try and retain their custom when times get tough. Surely, as Bagso, Shed and yourself have stated, it's imperative that MAN seek to ensure the destinations served are properly promoted while not being seen over time to favour a particular airline over another.

A final question - at one time I had a feeling that minutes of meetings with Manchester Council and the airport were available to the public. Was this before the other 9 local authorities were involved as shareholders?
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 21:22
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MANFOD Ö Check your PM's! Best Regards, SHED.
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