MANCHESTER - 9

[MANFOD]

Thanks paul atkins.

That puts some relativity on the MAN investment although there has been talk of introducing their own flights to MAN. Has there been mention of any other (potential) customers for the logistics hub?

[LAX_LHR]

That said this is same person who welcomed Birminghams new scheduled service to China on her twitter feed !

It sounds like Helen Grant doesn't know much about the aviation industry at all:

Tourism Minister Helen Grant said: “With 13m passengers using the airport every year, Heathrow is the ideal place to showcase the wonderful tourism offer in the UK.

Cant be too picky with that though, its only about 57 million out!

[MANFOD]

On that evidence, I'm not sure we'd want Helen Grant shouting for MAN!

[pwalhx]

Regarding DHL you have to remember that EMA is already a major hub in Europe for them, Manchester is merely a spoke, which may well though attract some direct flight injections time will tell.

On the subject of HS3 and other projects I have attended several meetings over the last few weeks which indicate there is a great deal of joined up thinking between Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester and Sheffield on infrastructure projects.

[Bagso]

You will have to join me on the Grumpy step Lax.

The comments by this MP are completely unacceptable at a time when her boss is talking about rebalancing the economy.

My God she is Tourism Minister, Lakes, Peak District, Dales....they are all within an hour of Manchester

BUT my angst is directed at those tasked with representing us, why are they so mute ?

Even the airport does not seem to have the wit to monitor this type of tripe and respond in kind.

Considering the size of the organisation it appears to project itself with about as much venom as a church mouse !

I can appreciate it may not wish to draw attention to itself but come on, someone has to raise their head above the parapet occasionally.

Charlie Cornish should be rightly apoplectic !

The point is that she is in a position of responsibility, her comments are rehashed to a much wider audience and churning out this trash will leave a mark with some people reinforcing a completely false premise.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HS3 - But that is the point of course , local government up here will support this and rightly so, BUT that implies that Manchester is the major hub airport for the North of England does it not ? cue Tourism Minister again ?

Therefore why build an HS2 station at Hale ?

It seems inconceivable that they would not put the spur on to LHR despite comments to the contrary. Therefore both projects need consideration in the round
specifically regards Manchester Airport !

One line will funnel demand into a station "on airport" the other "off airport" will draw demand away to the South !
If we are talking joined up thinking AND why isn't the line going anywhere near the World Logistics hub ?


The Lord Giveth, the Lord taketh away

[Ian Brooks]

Sounds like Yes Minister

Ian

[MANFOD]

I tend to be sympathetic towards MAN but am surprised just how low a profile we maintain most of the time. To misuse a metaphor, I very much hope the legs are paddling extremely hard, but unseen to the general public, below the surface and making worthwhile progress.

Now how about some route announcements - but not the flynas sort.

[LAX_LHR]

I tend to be sympathetic towards MAN but am surprised just how low a profile we maintain most of the time. To misuse a metaphor, I very much hope the legs are paddling extremely hard, but unseen to the general public, below the surface and making worthwhile progress.

To be honest, while advertising is a source of frustration, MAN do seem to do more work behind the scenes than they do up front. Look at it this way.

This year alone, we have had new long haul routes start/announced to Hong Kong, Jeddah, Puerta Vallarta, New York JFK, Miami, Toronto, Charlotte and potentially Los Angeles. There have also been increases in capacity to Abu Dhabi, Chicago, Islamabad and Lahore. Short haul wise, we have had many more new routes, based aircraft, increased frequencies and increased capacity.

There has been very little fanfare about all this.

Then we look at Birmingham. They have been in the media so much promoting their airport, and long haul wise, all they have for '3 years of work', are 3 charters to Beijing. Short haul news is almost exclusively comprised of flybe, with Icelandair and Aegean thrown in for good measure.

Quite frankly, as long as there is a degree of retention, I would much rather be in MAN's position, quietly adding and adding, than in BHX's position, where quite frankly, they are shouting over nothing, and being quite misleading while they are at it.

I mean, Christ, MAN has just run 2 long haul charter flights, an Atlas Air to Los Angeles and a Virgin Atlantic to Kansas City. Lets all run to the media and try and get that plastered all over the media, obviously huge news!

[anothertyke]

There is no chance of the Heathrow spur going in to HS2 phase one. The Bill is just about to enter the Committee stage. OK some amendments are sure to be tabled but not of that magnitude.

So, better start thinking now -- if Govt is up for putting the hat on the Y network (Leeds/Sheffield to Manchester/Liverpool), what do the northern cities actually want to max connectivity between them and their hub airport? This is a huge opportunity. Progress needs to be made in the next six months while Ossie is in charge. His successor might be less infrastructure friendly.

[TSR2]

LAX LHR

Very well said Sir.

[MANFOD]

I agree LAX that MAN through Business Development has been very successful in winning new routes and commend them for it. The passenger figures over the last 2 or 3 years support that view. If I'm not mistaken, I suspect Bagso's arguments are more to do with how publicity might help to ensure new routes from MAN are successful and viable once they've started - the point about a degree of retention you mention.

On the general publicity front, I agree there is a danger of over-hyping a project or announcement if in reality it turns out to be far less than expected or simply a damp squid.

[Fairdealfrank]

I hear that northern cities local authorities will respond to Osborne HS3 proposal next month.

Plans include Leeds, Sheffield and Liverpool all being 30 mins by rail to Manchester airport.

Also hear plans have cross party support in Whitehall.

Linking up the northern cities is actually a very good idea, the present links are not nearly good enough. However, the Liverpool-Ringway/Manchester-Leeds-Sheffield routes need to use existing main stations at the airport and city centres. It should also be built as soon as…..it is as urgently required as LHR’s third rwy.

As I have said before , unless Manchester expands to same rate as LHR (not likely) why would you actually then use Manchester when HS2 is built ?

To avoid the higher fares of HS rail and the hassle of travelling to an inconveniently located HS station (Hale) and then to avoid faffing around at Old Oak Common, while carrying luggage. It will be much longer than (the frankly laughable) 1 hour 8 minutes.

A flight from Ringway goes straight to LHR-5 (BA) or LHR-2 (VS) or AMS, CDG, FRA if preferred, with luggage checked through to final destination.

Does the Man airport USP not erode ?

No.

OK there will still be charters , Lo cost at Man but whose is to say they won't have appeared at LHR by then ?

They may do, but that will impact on LGW, LTN and STN more than on MAN.

Certainly if the focus was on long haul scheduled traffic you would take option of hopping on a train at Hale and get the access to higher frequency, cheaper fares, increased destinations would you not ?

One has got to get to Hale, inconvenient, expensive and time consuming for most, especially with luggage. May as well fly out of Ringway and connect at Heathrow (see comments above).

It's odd in over 4 years all those who think HS2 is a bad thing haven't offered any alternative that's better joined up, costs less causes disruption.

Nothing wrong with the principle, it’s the cack-handed way they’ve gone about it:

stations in the middle of nowhere when they should be at rail hubs (same principle as aviation);

via Birmingham for pax travelling Manchester/Leeds-London and vice versa;

a route designed to upset everyone and require expensive tunnelling.

Using centally located stations for interchanges and following existing rail/motorway corridors (with the "Y" at or near Rugby) surely makes much better sense as the environmental impact has already been made.

[getonittt]

Then we look at Birmingham. They have been in the media so much promoting their airport, and long haul wise, all they have for '3 years of work', are 3 charters to Beijing. Short haul news is almost exclusively comprised of flybe, with Icelandair and Aegean thrown in for good measure.

I agree with you and BHX is my local airport . The hype is cringe-worthy to be honest . Yes , I myself congratulate any new service but do not keep reminding ppruners at every opportunity .
But hey , what about the flip side. When a service is pulled or reduced we have at least a page and a half of doom and gloom and the snipes from all corners . Take Air Blue as a case in point , the tremors from that went on for at least a week and yet when they ceased the Manchester flights it just quietly slipped away . And what do I see here above ? "Flynas ends Manchester service " Just one line and everyone carries on as normal - be thankful for small mercies!!

[Manchester Kurt]

HS2 station at Hale serves the vast number of premium fare passengers who currently use the WCML from Macclesfield, Wilmslow and Stockport with great motorway access to south Manchester and north Cheshire and also had benefit it'll be next to airport and will no doubt receive additional Metrolink / alternative connections to the airport before opening.

Again, after >4 years no one has suggested anything credible as alternative, the pattern continues here where no one has offered a credible alternative.

The idea being that if there are loads of point to point passengers between Manchester London Brum and London, take off the full WCML onto a new track leaving much more space old network for more services to places with lower passenger flows.

Why you'd possibly force those Manc passengers to change at Brum when they fill the train good knows.

[kieb92]

Do we have any information regarding the potential DHL base at Manchester that was rumoured a few months back?

[yeo valley]

re dhl

read back a few posts and its on there about DHL

[kieb92]

Yeah read about the infrastructure in one of the previous posts, just wondered if there was any plans for flights as rumoured?

[Bagso]

"LIVERPOOL business and tourism chiefs are hoping to score with investors in the US during Liverpool Football Club's pre-season tour.Marketing Liverpool and Liverpool Chamber of Commerce are working with the football club to make the most of opportunities to promote the city region, with a focus on the match against Manchester City in New York’s Yankee Stadium on July 30"

International Trade / Business and tourism chiefs hope to score with LFC US tour THEBUSINESSDESK.COM

This is precisely what I said Manchester, and Manchester Airport should have been doing on the MUFC and indeed MCFC tours.

We have one of the largest sporting brands in the World and seemingly nobody has a clue how to capitalise !

Quite incredible really.

Fortunately at least Manchester Airport with numerous flights to the US should more by accident be the beneficiary of this move by Liverpool.

[MANFOD]

The BBC Business reporter for 'Breakfast' was at MAN this morning in T2.
Only saw her on the News Channel just before 09.00 talking to an airport guy about security - don't know if she was on earlier. When asked about the time to get through security with the extra screening, I didn't hear him mention they had recruited more staff to help matters, which might have been useful (unless I missed it).

Also a couple of items today in the M.E.N Business section - comments by the new Divisional Chief Exec. for MAG Property and a piece referring to Airport City with a survey showing we are getting more business travellers from the likes of India and China.

Nothing earth shattering but welcome all the same.

[LAX_LHR]

New Ryanair Shannon flight times:

FR4777 SNN 0715 MAN 0825
FR4776 MAN 0850 SNN 1000

Mon-Fri SNN based A/C

FR4776 MAN 1845 SNN 1955
FR4777 SNN 2020 MAN 2130

Sat MAN based A/C

FR4776 MAN 2025 SNN 2135
FR4777 MAN 2200 SNN 2310

Sun MAN based A/C

Flights from 26th October.