MANCHESTER - 9

[BasilBush]

That seems odd, Shed. BA's Reward Flight Saver deals are very good. You should have been charged only £35 in cash, plus the 9k Avios. The only criterion for eligibility for the reward flight saver is that you have generated 1 (yes 1) Avios in the last 12 months.

Maybe your Avios account has been inactive? Worth checking with BA anyway, as these RFS deals are one of the best uses of Avios at the moment.

[Ametyst1]

Avios Flights

The Avios must have expired.

I have just booked two Avios flights one MAN-LHR-MAN for 9000 Avios plus £35, and the other is

MAN-LHR-FRA & v.v also for 9000 Avios plus £35.

You would only be quoted full taxes if you have not collected a single Avios point in the last 12months.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

All very curious. The Avios show up as present in the account. I'm also receiving ads from BA telling me I've earned enough points for a short-haul business class trip. And why would the fare come up as four pounds different rather than the same if the Avios were ignored completely? I'll give them another try some time, but this booking has already migrated elsewhere. Thanks for the feedback.

[Manchester Kurt]

£8bn currently being spent replacing the entire tube train stock - with no negative media coverage from the London based media.


Railways across the north are full, no spare capacity into Manc from the south or Liverpool port from the east.


There is clearly a huge disparity on infrastructure investment whereby funds are waved through for London but have to meet all sorts of criteria in the north.

[EI-BUD]

Hi Shed,
I may be wrong but to qualify for reward saver fare of £35, you must have have had activity on your exec club in last12 months. Ie booked something using avios . Equally , the account must be12 months old.

I sometimes use my points and book one way BHD to DUB ( yes I know sounds mad) and it asks would you like to make a stopover, I say yes for london eg 3 days and continue my journey = 4500 avios and £17.50. Technically 2 for 1. Excellent . Same may be possible say edi to GLA but you'd need to check.

[Bagso]

my main question for Bagso and others is to identify which specific transport projects might be favoured in the Northwest, and which are currently being denied funding.

Gosh , where do you want to start.....

It isn't necessarily specific transport projects but uplifting the whole region by which prosperity and GDP would increase which in turn will increase use of the airport.

BUT as Manchester Kurt states London funding is ringfenced , the tube trains need replacing and it simply gets waived thru....what are our MPs actually there for ? We had the recent debacle where rolling stock "up here" was inexplicably shifted "down there" without so much as a whimper from the Honorable members !

When there is a consensus MPs seem to then back the wrong horse.

HS2 is a case in point, muddled thinking and totally disproportionate investment.

We need a counterweight to London NOT something that sucks even more demand into the South East. I have said before if you are going to build an HS2 station in Hale that gets you into Heathrow in an hour what will then be the point of Manchester or indeed Birmingham airports ?

.... you may as well hop on a train to catch a train to LHR giving you a wealth of options than risk missing a service which is more likely to be in the singular from MAN or non existent from BHX !

And yet to a man everyone seems to think this is the answer !

HS2 "appears" to be the only idea in town , major capital project which MPs actually think may make a difference, personally I would get across some of the Norths big thinkers Bernstein, Prof Brian Cox, and hire in Evan Davies to push forward ideas, now that that would be a plan !

We are getting RW3 rammed down our throat in terms of its prosperity to the UKPlc why do we not get the same impetus with say Airport City ?

Investment in Heathrow is apparently good for the Country but investment in Airport City "appears" to be only good for Gtr Manchester !

A topical example at the moment when the Tour De France was in London few years back "this was great for the Country" , now its in Yorkshire it seems to be great for well , just Yorkshire !

It's going out to 160 Countries, is it not showcasing "The UK" ?
Will the legacy of images of great scenery pull in tourists to "The UK"

Maybe that is the issue in terms of our consciousness, investment in the regions is seen as only good for that region, investment in London however is touted as being for the greater good of the Country as a whole.

With regard tourism, potential tourists who have been given an insight into the delights of our scenery outside London "might" be tempted to use a short haul gateway such as LBA and a major long haul entry point located less than an hour away such as MAN, but that is the trick, joined up thinking between all relevant agencies "in The North" be that Airports, Tourism Agencies, Accommodation etc.

[BasilBush]

Hi Kurt

I don't want to be seen as defending investment in the London area- that's not really my point. But the example you refer to certainly doesn't fall into the category of being "waved through". The last time I used the Victoria Line I noticed the new trains, but then I realised that these were replacing the original 1967 trains. Renewal of near 50-yr old rolling stock shouldn't be too surprising. And a lot of the trains are even older - I may be showing my age but I remember that it wasn't all that long ago that the 1930s era Bakerloo Line trains were still around!

You talk about the capacity limits on rail lines to the south of Manchester. But isn't this precisely the justification for HS2 - that there is no capacity for growth on the WCML? And if there's an example of investment being waved through it has to be HS2, which struggles to meet the economic criteria that are applied to all other rail projects. As for Liverpool, I don't know if there are any proposals to deal with this, but if there aren't then the criticism needs to be levelled at the regional transport bodies, rather than blaming the Westminster mafia. Osborne's recent statements suggest that improvements to East-West links in our region are a priority.

Please don't think I'm taking sides in a North v South debate - I was born and bred here and now live in the region again after some time in the evil South. But what frustrates me is when people focus on the issue of "fairness" without being explicit as to what they actually want for our region. Like Bagso I was very disappointed that MAG's submission to the Davies Commission was long on rhetoric but sadly lacking in concrete proposals. A timid and unrealistic proposal on APD, modest tweaks to route licensing, and a bit more surface access investment (much of which has now been approved). That was about the sum total of MAG's message - they really could have been more ambitious. Instead, the submission came across as a corporate whinge, rather than a constructive set of proposals aimed at cementing MAN's role as the pre-eminent airport outside London.

[BasilBush]

Good to hear from you as always, Bagso.

I think we agree on the obsession with HS2! A very expensive vanity project that will just increase the concentration on the South East. We should learn from France, where the vast TGV network has only reinforced the dominance of Paris.

You suggest including Bernstein in coming up with alternatives. But he's part of the HS2 mafia, I'm afraid, throwing Manchester's support behind that misguided project. Perhaps Osborne's focus on regional rail links is a better approach (pause for well-aimed kicks)!

I'm not sure I agree with you about the downplaying of the importance of Airport City and the Tour de France. Both seem to be being pushed at a National level.

Again, I think our focus needs to be on making specific and constructive proposals for our region, rather than an unproductive moan about how much money is being spent down South.

[AndyH52]

BasilBrush, until the funding for major transport schemes is properly devolved to local bodies then the buck generally does stop with DfT in London. They are the ones (along with Treasury) who set the rules in terms of project eligibility and financial appraisal. As a result projects are generally assessed on a 'competitive' basis against projects from other regions plus London. Projects in the south east always come out way ahead in any assessment as there are so many more people down there and the per capita costs therefore so much lower.

The scales are weighted against us...

[BasilBush]

Thanks AndyH52 - that's helpful. But I repeat my original question - which specific transport/infrastructure projects are being held up by Treasury/DfT? I'm not aware of any major ones in our region, but I'm not all that close to the issue.

I'm certainly not seeking to be a cheerleader for Whitehall, just trying to find out which projects are facing a stone wall. As far as I can see, every single one of the transport infrastructure projects that MAG identified in its Davies submission has been approved by Whitehall, so I'm genuinely puzzled by Bagso's concern in this particular area.

[LN-KGL]

For Manchester there one project that need sorted out ASAP and it is Manchester Piccadilly station. It is utterly chaotic during my visit mid day in July last year. Responsible for the rail network and its stations is Network Rail and its subsidiary Network Rail Infrastructure, statutory corporations that will be reclassified this year to government bodies. In other word the Government and the Parliament will from this year be in full control of Network Rail's £140bn net debt and the quality of the rail network in Great Britain (except the London Underground network - it's Boris' domain).

More about the Railways Act 2005 here:
Railways Act 2005

[BasilBush]

Kurt you are absolutely right. But again there are plans for a major redevelopment, linked to HS2. Clearly the work is needed irrespective of HS2.

See http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloa...ework_aug_2013

[750XL]

RE Egyptair:

While the service isn't great, and neither is Cairo airport, they offer some great connections and pretty decent prices. Average loadfactor is about 60-80 pax, sometimes busier during Umrah/Hajj periods

Shame they're pulling out after the summer though!

[Manchester Kurt]

Basil - you ask for infrastructure that is delayed - well, Metrolink was by about a decade, that is only just happening now that we are paying for it locally.


Add to that electrification of the railway around Manchester, only a small proportion is currently being electrified.


Add rail capacity into the south of the region - there is none.


Then we can get to roads - how is the Manchester to Sheffield motorway coming along? 40 years of waiting for funding and still getting no where.


So yes, there are loads of infrastructure investment that we need in the north, investment that has been asked for over many decades that is never ever forthcoming.


You miss the important point that developing business plans for these schemes is hugely expensive, there are no such plans on the board, developed by norther authorities to develop a HS3 to Leeds etc because the cost would effectively be wasted - the chances of getting the money miniscule - just wasting valuable local money.

[LN-KGL]

But BasilBush, HS2 is 19 years away - Manchester and MAN needs something done to Piccadilly yesterday.


The MAN Master Plan specifies the public transport share to be between 25% and 28% dependent on if the tram will be open to MAN in 2015. Below is a graph showing how well the different passenger groups are doing it, and now doubt they have difficulties with the locals (source: CAA yearly surveys 2000-2012).





But if we return to rail transport vs private transport, rail loses always on time except if you live in one of neighbouring houses to Piccadilly station. I have looked at 24 towns and cities within this magic 2 hour driving distance to MAN, and it is very clear - today's train franchises are not suitable to bind together counties. As an example: It takes 38 minutes to drive to Chester from MAN, but if you want to use the train it takes at least 1 hour 29 minutes included one train change. MAN is better connected to Yorkshire if we look at differences between train and car. The five destinations with the smallest difference in my comparison were Huddersfield, Sheffield, Doncaster, York and Leeds - all with less than 15 minutes more using the train, but all these trains have to visit Piccadilly station before continuing to MAN.

[BasilBush]

ManchesterKurt and LN-KGL

I don't disagree with you on the need for more investment. What I find odd, however, is that none of the schemes you refer to were mentioned by MAG in its Davies Commission submissions, as far as I can see. If there is a desire to see these schemes funded, then surely it's a major missed opportunity on MAG's part. Especially as there currently seems to be a rare cross-party consensus on the need for major infrastructure investment in the region.

And I agree that the excessive focus on HS2 is distracting attention from the need for other, more urgent solutions. But I'm afraid that MAG, Bernstein and others are in thrall to HS2 when they ought to be focussing on more immediate issues.

[Bagso]

Sorry to derail the interesting chat on rail , such topics are very compelling when news is thin and doubtless will return, but now we are back on piste so to speak, well and truly !

Egyptair

...well "if true" that's a sting in the tail but not unexpected !

AND at risk of being a bore , sorry I told you so !

Fragmented , scatter gun , sparse enthusiasm in marketing about new routes seemingly resulting in same old , same old 18 months on !

The Manchester Epitaph ;

"Here lies an airport unquestionably brilliant at gaining new routes, utterly abysmal at making any attempt to actually retain them"!

And therein lies the rub, if we try and fail fine, no argument, we can at least put it down to finite demand but at least bloody well try !

Social media

AGAIN , Lots of focus, nay backslapping about Cathay whilst core airlines/routes already in situ are allowed to wither on the vine !

Lots of endless chit chat on MAN social media about cheap parking, er' no good if the 80 passengers 5 X a week are not there in the first place.

Lots of endless chit chat on social media on about "cheap breakfast vouchers", again no good if the 80 passengers 5 X a week are not there in the first place.

Nothing about our network once a route starts.

Always lots of huff and puff on launch day (and of course following the 1980 template, a bit of standard PR to the M E N), but then it never sees the light of day again well not unless its Chinese !

There is barely a mention of current services !

SOCIAL MEDIA ADVERTISING IS FREE FOR GOODNESS SAKE !

When will somebody at MAG, Account Management/ Marketing actually wake up to the fact its 2014 re publicity !

Either personnel or an agency should be accountable and measured for publicity and performance, especially on new "thin" routes, at the very least have a strategy in place to give them a leg up until established ?

I do appreciate Egypt is volatile and has its issues, but the mere fact that up to 80 passengers at a time have been using it without a shred of promotion is
surely an indicator that there could have been potential to retain ?

AND lets not start lining up excuses...

"its because SAUDIA have started etc "

The fact is there has been barely a mention that the route exists, no publicity , no marketing activity , no mention of connections, no promotion English or Arabic etc.

Does somebody at board level not look at this failing strategy and think "hang on" ?

Does nobody have any vision of what to do or any passion to at least having a damn good go ?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Further public transport projects urgently required in this region:

1) A large single-location comprehensive BUS STATION for Central Manchester. Terminating buses are currently strewn on side-streets all around the city centre. Bus stations such as Shudehill serve only a minority of routes. Bus operations at present around Piccadilly and on areas such as Oldham St. / Lever St. are dangerous to pedestrians. Connection locations are random and baffling to visitors. Manchester has to be one of the worst cities in the UK from a bus transfer point of view. I would dearly love to see a large public transport interchange project for local bus (ALL routes), Metro, coach (National Express etc.) and rail travel made a top priority in Central Manchester.

2) Rail Rolling Stock - Replacement of old units (Pacers etc) urgently required. Capacity enhancement urgently required. Example: the two-carriage Class 158 trains which operate Liverpool - Manchester - Sheffield - Nottingham - Norwich. Demand is controlled by ultra-high tariffs … I was recently quoted GBP184 return Manchester - Norwich on this (two weeks in advance), but GBP55.50 if routing Manchester - Euston / Liverpool St - Norwich. Crazy difference … the London route it had to be. Lots of similar regional routes with demand artificially repressed by tariff management.

3) East-West Rail Line Capacity - Recent enhancements to enable 5 fast services per hour Manchester-Leeds (via Huddersfield) have by necessity squeezed local stopping services using the same track. Local commuter communities deeply unimpressed. Funding not approved for re-opening the existing but mothballed (original) Stanedge Tunnel bores which would significantly increase capacity on this constrained stretch. In the long term, a four track corridor should be the aim (unless "HS3" finds an alternative less curvy route to use).

Other projects mentioned on the thread also important … I'm just not repeating what has already been covered. There is massive potential for putting more equitable transport funding to very constructive use in this region. Our airports need to be at the heart of a northern transport regeneration effort.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

EgyptAir: I can't confirm whether MAN is losing this service or not. However, it has been subject to similar withdrawal scares in the past as the change of season approaches. Isn't it on some 'rolling renewal' temporary licence which tends to get the nod very late in the day?

[Fairdealfrank]

Further public transport projects urgently required in this region:

Shed, you mentioned HS3, you forgot to mention the need to build it now, before the much flawed and potentially disasterous (as presently constituted) HS2.