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Old 25th Oct 2014, 11:46
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Hainan

Hainan Airlines eyes ambitious 2015 with wishlist for nine new long-haul routes | CAPA - Centre for Aviation

I found this so interesting the fact that they are scared of cathay pacific with being scared of going into competition with them!
Also never knew that they had to open another route in uk for heathrow (if it was to be successfully opened!)
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 12:51
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Yes, interesting view by CAPA on the 2 UK route applications:

"It is exceptionally difficult to see Hainan awarded the right to fly Beijing-London Heathrow. The route is important for Air China and Hainan may not be able to receive authority unless it opens another "trade-off" route that China has identified as a strategic priority. Further, Hainan would need to obtain London Heathrow slots.

It is difficult but not impossible to see a Manchester service."


The report goes on to talk about CX starting at MAN, onward connections to Australia and premium demand.

Matters appear to have got rather complicated since our Chancellor jumped the gun with his comments! Still, ever hopeful.
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 18:09
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MAN-HKG in excess of 100,000 passengers

MAN-other China in excess of 100,000 passengers

No reason to suppose that we can't have both routes operating successfully?

Both served MAN-YYZ until CP pulles out, around the time they got LHR access. (Am I misremembering that timing?)
CP altered MAN to operate 3 or 4 weekly as YYZ-LHR-MAN service (CDN90/91).
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 19:41
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Its worth noting the CAPA article is by no means affiliated to Hainan, and is just expanding on already reported info with its own opinion. Therefore, just because they say 'its difficult to see a MAN flight', does not mean that view is shared by the airline.


Its also worth noting that Hainan have not applied for LHR slots. The table of 'future routes' by Hainan, being quoted by various sources lists purely 'London', to which STN and LGW were the 2 airports vying for the service (Richard Maslen of routes picked up on HU looking at STN a few months ago in fact). LHR was purely a translation error by someone on a.net (to which they corrected to say just 'London'), but for some reason LHR seems to have been continued to be broadcast.
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Old 25th Oct 2014, 21:39
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Canadian operated YYZ services cp82/83 1990 through to 1995 I think, 763 equipment, declining market as previous poster said.
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Old 26th Oct 2014, 10:20
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Does anybody know how the car parking issue will work with reference to Airport City ?

When they start in earnest his will swallow up a substantial amount of land currently used for parking, clearly you can't start digging until you resolve this dilemma. Cannot see the new car park at The Tatton Arms taking all this capacity but maybe others know different.
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Old 26th Oct 2014, 10:39
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The new car park nr Tatton Arms is for 9000 cars so is large

Ian
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Old 26th Oct 2014, 12:08
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Many thanks. I just wondered if that capacity would swallow all the existing other car parks which will be bullt on plus the T2 apron ?

If it does I assume they will start to empty. No evidence yet and as far as I could see on last vist the Tatton park is fully open.

Just surprised they have not emptied all the others by now.
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Old 26th Oct 2014, 15:09
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Some stands returning to service at the end of this week. 72, 73 and those opposite iirc.
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Old 26th Oct 2014, 19:25
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I think the idea of the 9000 spaces is that it can replace pretty much all the existing if and when that is needed for Airport City / Terminal redevelopment / Apron etc....
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Old 27th Oct 2014, 17:19
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Good luck to NCL and their NYC service !

Now, how do they go about announcing a new service ?

Scatter gun, fragmented, haphazard ?

No, simple basic textbook stuff, well delivered and hitting target audience !

Website updated instantly !
not 3 days later
3 week later
OR 3 months later But within 3 hours of the formal announcement !


see Website
Fly direct to New York with United Airlines - Newcastle Airport

Was Twitter forgotten, no, in unison, with PR was not just sent to the "Newcastle Daily Bugle " but also the audience at the OTHER END - USA Today

Twitter link from USA Today by 1130
United to launch route from Newark to Newcastle, England

"hang on they are in marketing they must have missed off something, maybe facebook?

https://www.facebook.com/nclairport

That is how to do it, an immediate, swift, passionate, creative tsunami of publicity !
  • ALL media channels covered in a uniform manner
  • PR in UK And the USA, not just a local regional newspaper
  • AND blow me, all this same day the service is announced allowing maximum opportunity for bookings.

    Now lets compare what they do at a major international.....

    please note message was cut due to exhaustive use of profanities

Last edited by Bagso; 27th Oct 2014 at 17:44.
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Old 27th Oct 2014, 17:49
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and whilst i'm in rant Mode

Posters Promoting Heathrow Airport Snubbed In Birmingham

Consider how a local Chamber Of Commerce reacted to the Heathrow posters appearing all over the Midlands...versus those appearing in the Manchester catchment area !

Jerry Blackett, from the Chamber of Commerce, told Heart "I'm not having that, I'm not having them coming here pretending we love Heathrow."

Some on here would say misguided but at least there is an ounce of passion !

Not saying he is right OR wrong, simply an observation from two differing regional viewpoints !

Last edited by Bagso; 27th Oct 2014 at 18:20.
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Old 27th Oct 2014, 19:31
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Good luck to NCL and their NYC service !

Now, how do they go about announcing a new service ?

Scatter gun, fragmented, haphazard ?

No, simple basic textbook stuff, well delivered and hitting target audience !

Website updated instantly !
not 3 days later
3 week later
OR 3 months later But within 3 hours of the formal announcement !
So.. perhaps I should not have googled "Cathay Pacific Manchester Hong Kong".

Route announced 9th April.

On MAN website at 1709, on the Cathay website on 10th April. Bunch of newspapers from the Evening News through to the Guardian through to the FT all carry the story 10th April. Publicised through the travel industry 10th April from Buying Business Travel to Travel Trade Gazette.

In the South China Morning Post 10th April. Whether Chinese language papers carried the story I've not checked.

ITV report 10th April.

Twitter feed active from 1am 10th April as a retweeet of the Evening News report.

Can't spot the facebook post but think that's more down to how facebook displays items.

Certainly looks like a haphazard, fragmented and scattergun approach to the reporting of that new route, doesn't it.
___



Of course the other thing note is that NCL has precisely 1 long-haul route at the moment. So are you actually surprised that they've burst into activity? It's not as if UA will be competing with EK whereas here, we did have the brouhaha regarding "1st direct service to Asia" when SQ may have felt a little neglected?
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Old 27th Oct 2014, 22:10
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Ringwayman

Highly selective if i may say, my goodness if only CX was indeed the template for EVERY route I would kneel and beg forgiveness at The Mancunian Temple Of Airline Marketing ", sadly it's very much the exception to the rule !

That is what is so utterly utterly frustrating, if it can be done for CX why on earth can it not be done for all the other routes AND may I say repeated on an ongoing basis.

The love does not have to be specific to one airline, absolutely no reason it cannot be shared across the board in a timely manner !

Has SQ had much of a mention since the CX announcement, if not why not ?

The airport "can" dare I say "should" be a major conduit to attract passengers working in unison with the airlines !

You could argue that the euphoria witnessed by the 1st NCL NYC route is comparable to our MAN HK is it not ?

.....hence the impetus !


Can you honestly recall the same ambition, and coverage on any other route ?

Washington ?

Charlotte ? Ok it's gone BUT they did not know this at the time.

Keflavik ?
Cairo ?
Riyadh ?

And what of Thomas Cook, and their various new US destinations for 2015 ?

What about short haul second TAP or THY ?

We often get a fleeting mention of a route at point of inception ...and er that's it ?

sorry #Epicfail The noise is deafening !

Last edited by Bagso; 28th Oct 2014 at 08:01.
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Old 27th Oct 2014, 22:23
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Of course the other thing note is that NCL has precisely 1 long-haul route at the moment. So are you actually surprised that they've burst into activity? It's not as if UA will be competing with EK whereas here, we did have the brouhaha regarding "1st direct service to Asia" when SQ may have felt a little neglected?
Maybe it should have been "1st nonstop direct service to Asia" that way it would have been accurate and not neglected SQ.
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Old 27th Oct 2014, 23:03
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Ah, but "first non-stop service to Asia" wouldn't have been correct either. SQ flew non-stop on a B772 for several years, as my wife and I experienced in 2005.
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Old 27th Oct 2014, 23:35
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Far East or South East Asia would be the correct expression. Asia starts on the east side of the Bosporus Strait (one part of Istanbul is in Europe and the other part is in Asia). Then you may add PIA, the MEB3 and Saudi to the list of airlines with direct flights from MAN to Asia (TK will not be on that list since IST lays on the European side of the Bosporus Strait).
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 07:40
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Well if we are playing "Top Trumps" .

My notes suggest 1st Asia service was actually British Airways in 1984 to Bangkok NOT Hong Kong !

From memory CX were sniffing and as I recall it was a pre-emptive strike to kill their enthusiasm.

Patchy was not the word.

Who could possibly forget BA021 L1011 via Munich Dubai Bangkok. Then HK. (assume you could fly to BKK unless it was a fuel stop , but not sure)

It then became a B747 via LHR which went via Delhi one day and Bombay the next staggering on until early nineties.

CX eventually came onto the route in 1989 CX289 operating one stop via FRA....

Yes two airlines to Hong Kong

It did for the BA service by about 1991 .......I think !

Last edited by Bagso; 28th Oct 2014 at 11:22.
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 08:26
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While in nostalgic mood, didn't SQ operate one-stop via India for a short period?

As for AI, did they fly non-stop, and was it with an A310? I know they had flown to BHX with a B707, a flight that occasionally diverted to MAN.

Anyway, let's hope CX are here for the long term. I seem to recall the previous service was pulled at the time of a pilots' strike but that may not have been the reason for their going.

I take LN-KGL's point. Asia needs to be more clearly defined as it's a huge continent.

As regards media coverage of new routes, I think Bagso's general point is valid and CX was rather more the exception than the rule in terms of wider advertising. It has been suggested previously on here before that it's really an airline's responsibility to advertise its services and there is obviously an issue for the airport if there is already a carrier on a route. However, I don't see why the airport shouldn't seek maximum coverage for a brand new route - SV to Jeddah and MS to Cairo were probably fair examples when more could have been done, (and could still be done, especially if MS returns) maybe in conjunction with the airline.
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 08:56
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EWR-NCL

Thanks Bagso for the heads up, did not hear about the new link for NCL. It is a good job you troll the global airports for news releases, and inform us how good they are against MAN. I must say that they are doing a pretty good job marketing MAN here in Asia/Pacific. At every airport I went to in the last 2 1/2 weeks there was always a MAN sign next to the bathroom entrance. That includes SIN, MEL, AKL, PER, KUL, TPE, HKG, WUH, PEK and ICN, promotion is alive and kicking over here
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