MANCHESTER - 9
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The similarity between yesterday's comments and the Evan Davies documentary "Mind the Gap" is indeed quite uncanny. I just wonder though whether the idea for the program came about because it was thought the government was privately already considering the concept of a Northern powerhouse.
Nevertheless, irrespective of how much political motivation was behind the move, having been put on the table as it were, it's important that business organisations including MAN, MPs etc. don't let the matter quietly subside because it's years in the future.
Today's M.E.N includes reactions from "experts" on infrastructure which are very positive, (the CBI was slightly more cautious) and there are some outspoken remarks about the infrastructure spend in London compared to Manchester. I know some will argue that London is a global city, free market forces prevail etc. but the relative spend is so outrageous that it's almost obscene. If Crossrail 2 were ever given the go ahead before vital projects elsewhere in the country, it could prove politically disastrous.
As far as implications for air travel are concerned, if the line of cities is felt to be from Liverpool to Hull, then Leeds could argue that it is just as much central as Manchester. I do hope that before too long Manchester Airport with over 21 million passengers and a (currently) growing list of long haul destinations will make its voice heard and respond to the ideas put forward yesterday along with the Davies commission. This is surely something where MAN has a vital role to play, but may need to win the support and cooperation of some of those other northern cities to press its case for continued expansion, particularly for long haul routes, as well of course as persuading airlines that demand exists.
Nevertheless, irrespective of how much political motivation was behind the move, having been put on the table as it were, it's important that business organisations including MAN, MPs etc. don't let the matter quietly subside because it's years in the future.
Today's M.E.N includes reactions from "experts" on infrastructure which are very positive, (the CBI was slightly more cautious) and there are some outspoken remarks about the infrastructure spend in London compared to Manchester. I know some will argue that London is a global city, free market forces prevail etc. but the relative spend is so outrageous that it's almost obscene. If Crossrail 2 were ever given the go ahead before vital projects elsewhere in the country, it could prove politically disastrous.
As far as implications for air travel are concerned, if the line of cities is felt to be from Liverpool to Hull, then Leeds could argue that it is just as much central as Manchester. I do hope that before too long Manchester Airport with over 21 million passengers and a (currently) growing list of long haul destinations will make its voice heard and respond to the ideas put forward yesterday along with the Davies commission. This is surely something where MAN has a vital role to play, but may need to win the support and cooperation of some of those other northern cities to press its case for continued expansion, particularly for long haul routes, as well of course as persuading airlines that demand exists.
Last edited by MANFOD; 24th Jun 2014 at 09:14.
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On a theme Transport for London of have been spouting copious amounts of hot air re domestic connectivity or lack of it at Heathrow and how a 3rd runway will bring back those connections, hopefully in circa 15 years time when the thing actually gets built.
I think it's a good idea to allow the UK's only world hub airport to have domestic connections, you're intentionally mixing together two issues, (again).
Maybe somebody at MAG could respond by indicating that Manchester serves more than double the domestic airports served by LHR and LGW as at, er NOW !
connectivity to long haul at Manchester is not that far behind Amsterdam !
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Which begs the question.....if I'm an operator holding slots at LHR with a market value of £20m per pair, why don't I take the cash, move the operation to MAN and benefit from this fantastic connectivity ? The fact no one is doing this surely tells us everything we need to know about the relative attractiveness.
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A comparison with long haul connectivity between Manchester and Amsterdam is of course quite ludicrous I was merely making the point that Manchester has much better connectivity than LHR, in terms of the 12 domestic points served and its geographical relationship to Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, its a point that should not be lost in any "sensible" debate on airport capacity.
But both of the last two posters are as usual quite correct !
The case and appetite for regional connectivity Ex LHR is so truly overwhelming BA used all the slots it inherited from BMI, (how many was it 56 slot pairs), to fully re-establish connectivity to quite a significant number of regional cities
oh hang on, they didn't did they ! Only Leeds comes to mind !
With regard to slot values the basis on which these values are held seems to be me to be a bit like The Emperors New Clothes.....
£20M for a slot pair , I don't doubt the valuation, but which route exactly could realistically generate that kind of return and over what timeframe?
MANFOD, sensible comments as ever, according to the economists and now Mr Osbourne , critical mass seems to be the power behind economic activity with 7m people living within an hour of Manchester the largest conurbation outside London, its Manchester which is at the epi centre dare I use the term "hub" off a number of spokes !
But both of the last two posters are as usual quite correct !
The case and appetite for regional connectivity Ex LHR is so truly overwhelming BA used all the slots it inherited from BMI, (how many was it 56 slot pairs), to fully re-establish connectivity to quite a significant number of regional cities
oh hang on, they didn't did they ! Only Leeds comes to mind !
With regard to slot values the basis on which these values are held seems to be me to be a bit like The Emperors New Clothes.....
£20M for a slot pair , I don't doubt the valuation, but which route exactly could realistically generate that kind of return and over what timeframe?
MANFOD, sensible comments as ever, according to the economists and now Mr Osbourne , critical mass seems to be the power behind economic activity with 7m people living within an hour of Manchester the largest conurbation outside London, its Manchester which is at the epi centre dare I use the term "hub" off a number of spokes !
Last edited by Bagso; 24th Jun 2014 at 13:31.
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The case and appetite for regional connectivity Ex LHR is so truly overwhelming BA used all the slots it inherited from BMI, (how many was it 56 slot pairs), to fully re-establish connectivity to quite a significant number of regional cities
oh hang on, they didn't did they ! Only Leeds comes to mind !
oh hang on, they didn't did they ! Only Leeds comes to mind !
£20M for a slot pair , I don't doubt the valuation, but which route exactly could realistically generate that kind of return and over what timeframe?
Main point, there is not one thing stopping anyone taking advantage of MAN's existing excellent connectivity but there is a constraint on additional capacity at LHR. I think you place too much emphasis on big, bad London doing down MAN, it's the airlines by and large who make the decisions, not the governments nowadays. All the connections MAN has cannot and will not be maximised without a hub operation by a based carrier, and I mean something well beyond flybe, or a proper focus city by one of the alliances Neither of which is likely, so the domestic connectivity will do what it has always done well, point to point business and leisure with some oddball connections. Beyond that, there's little scope even if you get George Osbourne to move Heaven and Earth to try.
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TCX to lease RAF A330 Tanker for 3 years:
Thomas Cook to lease A330 from AirTanker - 6/24/2014 - Flight Global
Thomas Cook to lease A330 from AirTanker - 6/24/2014 - Flight Global
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
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EMIRATES has signed up for a new office building located in Manchester Business Park close to Manchester Airport. Emirates will occupy the entire building, bringing some 300 staff together. Many of the staff currently work in Wilmslow. The principal activity will be the operation of Emirates' customer contact centre covering passenger services (multi-lingual), SkyCargo and the Emirates Holidays division.
Who said that only BA in London is good for the UK economy? :-)
Who said that only BA in London is good for the UK economy? :-)
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Today Belgian ATC Belgocontrol went on strike . Airports were asked what they could accept in the way of diversions should the need arise , here are the answers taken from the Eurocontrol Operational Website.
quote
The following airports are available for flights diverting due to Belgian ATC strike:
EDDF: FRA
All diversions are subject to PPR. EDDF spvr telephone number: +49 610 370 76200
Can take 10 aircraft up to code D and E but request individual coordination in case of 747 or 380
EDDL: DUS
Has already coordinated with Brussels Airlines to take their 6 long hauls (A330) if needed
EDDM: MUC
Can take 8 wide body and 8 medium body
EDDK: CGN
Can take up to 7 aircraft up to size of 767/MD11 and 2 to 3 larger ones.
EDDS: STR
Limited capacity due to taxiway and position marking/demarking activities but:
short stop ~15 a/c; 3 to 4 medium if staying longer than 2hrs; 1-2 Dash or similar
1 medium, 1 light
EHAM: AMS
from 0500 to 1200 local: NO DIVERSIONS
EGLL/EGCC: LHR/MAN
no diversion possible
EGKK: LGW
3 mediums + 2/B757 + 2/Heavies EGSS:
mediums (many)
EGGW: LTN
6 mediums + 2/B767
EGFF: CWL
5 mediums
NMOC Brussels NMOC Brussels
unquote
quote
The following airports are available for flights diverting due to Belgian ATC strike:
EDDF: FRA
All diversions are subject to PPR. EDDF spvr telephone number: +49 610 370 76200
Can take 10 aircraft up to code D and E but request individual coordination in case of 747 or 380
EDDL: DUS
Has already coordinated with Brussels Airlines to take their 6 long hauls (A330) if needed
EDDM: MUC
Can take 8 wide body and 8 medium body
EDDK: CGN
Can take up to 7 aircraft up to size of 767/MD11 and 2 to 3 larger ones.
EDDS: STR
Limited capacity due to taxiway and position marking/demarking activities but:
short stop ~15 a/c; 3 to 4 medium if staying longer than 2hrs; 1-2 Dash or similar
1 medium, 1 light
EHAM: AMS
from 0500 to 1200 local: NO DIVERSIONS
EGLL/EGCC: LHR/MAN
no diversion possible
EGKK: LGW
3 mediums + 2/B757 + 2/Heavies EGSS:
mediums (many)
EGGW: LTN
6 mediums + 2/B767
EGFF: CWL
5 mediums
NMOC Brussels NMOC Brussels
unquote
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BDLBOS
....If you send me your address I'll send you some crayons and a Maccies Menu
But given such an illuminating post I suspect you may be to intellectually challenged to use them to best effect.
The long sweaty days in Laura Lumpur must fly by !
....If you send me your address I'll send you some crayons and a Maccies Menu
But given such an illuminating post I suspect you may be to intellectually challenged to use them to best effect.
The long sweaty days in Laura Lumpur must fly by !
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Bagso
Too fast and smart for me Bagso, well and truly put in my place.
No need to post the crayons, I will arrive at MAN tomorrow morning (Sat), you can deliver yourself, meet you at T3 around 0820.
Laura Lumpur, you are just too classy for me to bother with a comeback.
Keep up the good work
BDLBOS
No need to post the crayons, I will arrive at MAN tomorrow morning (Sat), you can deliver yourself, meet you at T3 around 0820.
Laura Lumpur, you are just too classy for me to bother with a comeback.
Keep up the good work
BDLBOS
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BDLBOS
Too fast and smart for me Bagso, well and truly put in my place.
and here is me thinking irony !
Despite the disparaging remark re Manchester delighted it has come to your rescue tomorrow....
8:20 arrival gosh you might see a over a dozen plus long haul tails at that time.
.......YES as Cilla Black would say "Laura Laura Lumpur"
Too fast and smart for me Bagso, well and truly put in my place.
and here is me thinking irony !
Despite the disparaging remark re Manchester delighted it has come to your rescue tomorrow....
8:20 arrival gosh you might see a over a dozen plus long haul tails at that time.
.......YES as Cilla Black would say "Laura Laura Lumpur"
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Bagso I think he means turn up and offer him the ironic crayons in person rather than hiding behind the endless stream of tedium that you write. Would love to see the outcome.
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My God Turtle Controller ....so so astute, I really hadn't grasped that you know !
I would have thought that living in Bramhall you would have been a keen supporter of Manchester, clearly not.
Lets read the posting again that kicked off this piece of vitriol !
LHR cannot take anything as it is full.
MAN cannot take anything because it is MAN.
What a highly illuminating piece of verse. Lots of facts, well researched , good balanced argument etc
I do find it odd that there a number of posters who contribute no meaningful debate to the MAN forum but rely on stupid soundbites to antagonize others.
Are you really so sad that you spend every waking hour waiting to pounce when certain people appear ?
No information, no news, no rumours, no pax figures, no observations, no comment, just a diatribe of revulsion aimed at everybody else.
I'm more than happy to refrain from posting anything further as it so offends you.
Infact i'm sure the audience would love to see your comments instead of mine so the floor as they say is yours.......
...although having only posted 10 items since 2010 we may have to wait a while for another although we can at least guarantee it will be pretty dull, monotonous and tedious like all your previous offerings.
Have you considered a job as a bingo caller ?
I would have thought that living in Bramhall you would have been a keen supporter of Manchester, clearly not.
Lets read the posting again that kicked off this piece of vitriol !
LHR cannot take anything as it is full.
MAN cannot take anything because it is MAN.
What a highly illuminating piece of verse. Lots of facts, well researched , good balanced argument etc
I do find it odd that there a number of posters who contribute no meaningful debate to the MAN forum but rely on stupid soundbites to antagonize others.
Are you really so sad that you spend every waking hour waiting to pounce when certain people appear ?
No information, no news, no rumours, no pax figures, no observations, no comment, just a diatribe of revulsion aimed at everybody else.
I'm more than happy to refrain from posting anything further as it so offends you.
Infact i'm sure the audience would love to see your comments instead of mine so the floor as they say is yours.......
...although having only posted 10 items since 2010 we may have to wait a while for another although we can at least guarantee it will be pretty dull, monotonous and tedious like all your previous offerings.
Have you considered a job as a bingo caller ?
Last edited by Bagso; 27th Jun 2014 at 20:32.
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You must admit Bagso, there is some truth in what Turtle controller says. LHR is balancing on the knife edge with its movements in and out of two runways, and with bad weather inbound aircraft may end up searching for shelter at other airports, even across the Channel. MAN on the other hand has for years now opted to use parts of the apron for parking cars because it's more money in that than having spare parking space for aircraft. I guess MAN have made themselves a bit unpopular within the aviation industry by relying on other airports helping them out during bad weather conditions and not offering corresponding relief in return. Airlines too will notice this unwillingness to help out, and these airlines may end up flying with heavier aircraft than necessary due to alternates more distant from the destination airport have to be filed in the flight plan.
The crayons can be delivered on one of SK4609 arrivals during the last part of August - you see we have an apprentice with us this time.
The crayons can be delivered on one of SK4609 arrivals during the last part of August - you see we have an apprentice with us this time.
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...had the comment been balanced with objective reasoning as per yours i would totally agree.
Its the personal sniping that is the issue, some cannot help themselves !
Anyway as I said I will leave the floor open, the 10 postings in 4 years should make for an interesting read moving forward.
Its the personal sniping that is the issue, some cannot help themselves !
Anyway as I said I will leave the floor open, the 10 postings in 4 years should make for an interesting read moving forward.
Last edited by Bagso; 28th Jun 2014 at 08:47.
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I think there is a grain of truth in easyflyers point. What would you have the airport do, keep it's current operation running and customers happy or accept diversions that may put the former at risk.