SOUTHEND - 3 The new beginning
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LTNman
I would have thought that there were no passengers booked on the first Southend departure. The Germans need to arrive first before they return home.
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You have lost me there. Would have thought all passengers would be German based seeing that no one in the UK apart from ppruners would know about the service.
As they can't do a day return where would the first days passengers come from?
As they can't do a day return where would the first days passengers come from?
Last edited by LTNman; 15th Oct 2012 at 16:43.
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LTN man
I don't understand your question. It would be a vicious circle. Unless the airline operates inbound to London flights with Germans, how can it ever expect to fly those same Germans back to Germany?
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Yes but not on day one. The Germans would need to spend at least one night in the UK before returning home. I can't see any English being booked on the service. Anyway there are no flights so there are no passengers using the service.
Out of interest - did either Stobart or OLT order a cake at Southend airport for today's intended route launch ? If OLT are not going to show up before Thursday instead of today, then the cake is at risk of going off so would have to be eaten. Question is - who will be doing the eating ?
I really do hope we're not getting into another slanging match gentlemen.
I cannot reveal all I know for reasons of confidentiality, but the SEN management bear absolutely no blame for this shambles. They fully expected the flight to operate this morning and received no prior notification whatever that it wouldn't. The first they knew about it was when the flight plan was cancelled soon after it had been received by ATC this morning. They made efforts today to find out if any pax were booked on the SEN-DRS so that they could assist them when they arrived to check in.
davidjohnson6's observations as to the reasons for SEN not promoting the service are basically correct and, as it turns out, this has proven a wise move on their part.
Edit: No, they was no cake.
OLT's future is surely likely to be in serious trouble if this is a reflection of their operational philosophy and it is certainly not the way to run any airline worthy of the name. In view of the experience of the people behind the 'new' OLT Express Germany I am extremely surprised and disappointed in feeling the need to say that.
I cannot reveal all I know for reasons of confidentiality, but the SEN management bear absolutely no blame for this shambles. They fully expected the flight to operate this morning and received no prior notification whatever that it wouldn't. The first they knew about it was when the flight plan was cancelled soon after it had been received by ATC this morning. They made efforts today to find out if any pax were booked on the SEN-DRS so that they could assist them when they arrived to check in.
davidjohnson6's observations as to the reasons for SEN not promoting the service are basically correct and, as it turns out, this has proven a wise move on their part.
Edit: No, they was no cake.
OLT's future is surely likely to be in serious trouble if this is a reflection of their operational philosophy and it is certainly not the way to run any airline worthy of the name. In view of the experience of the people behind the 'new' OLT Express Germany I am extremely surprised and disappointed in feeling the need to say that.
Last edited by Expressflight; 15th Oct 2012 at 17:08. Reason: additional response to new post
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I really do hope we're not getting into another slanging match gentlemen.
So did other London airports reject this airlines business plan or was Southend the first and only choice for OTL? Guess we will never know. For the type of aircraft used Southend is the ideal airport.
Last edited by LTNman; 15th Oct 2012 at 17:29.
Not just ppruners who are surprised....
In German - Wirtschaft: OLT streicht geplanten Erstflug von Dresden nach London - Nachrichten Newsticker - News3 (DAPD) - DIE WELT
With Google Translate - Google Translate
Edit - Dresden airport website confirms London flight on Tues 16th October is cancelled
In German - Wirtschaft: OLT streicht geplanten Erstflug von Dresden nach London - Nachrichten Newsticker - News3 (DAPD) - DIE WELT
With Google Translate - Google Translate
Edit - Dresden airport website confirms London flight on Tues 16th October is cancelled
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 15th Oct 2012 at 18:48.
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LTNman
My point being..By your reckoning...If Germans are returning, thus we can't book..Then it's going to be a vicious circle.
I see your point to a degree...What if others that Germans and ppruners knew about the route..Then by your reckoning, when would there be room for us on the a/c?...
You have lost me there. Would have thought all passengers would be German based seeing that no one in the UK apart from ppruners would know about the service.
As they can't do a day return where would the first days passengers come from?
As they can't do a day return where would the first days passengers come from?
I see your point to a degree...What if others that Germans and ppruners knew about the route..Then by your reckoning, when would there be room for us on the a/c?...
Last edited by Ernest Lanc's; 15th Oct 2012 at 18:10.
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OLT crap
In the city of Saarbrucken, there are dozens of big posters on billboards, and even bus stop shelters advertising their flights to Vienna, Munchen and Hamburg....not any for London.....so when did they decide not to operate the SEN route? I agree the blame is on the airline...it's disgraceful..and of course disappointing..whether you are a German pax, UK pax, aircraft spotter at SEN......something is not right...and Stobarts know it...but they have not been forthcoming.....even if they said last week, do not book your flights because there is no agreement set up yet...it would have been ok..........lets drop the subject now and move on.....
tophat27dt
I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong regarding Stobart/SEN's not having a commercial agreement in place with OLT Express Germany. As I said earlier, they were expecting the DRS flights to commence today and received no indication that this was not going to happen. If you had tried booking DRS-SEN for the 15 November yesterday on the OLT website you could have done so. This cancellation of today's and the next two days flights appears to have been a very last minute commercial decision by OLT without any reference whatever to SEN.
Stobart/SEN certainly aren't perfect in every way, but on this they do not deserve any criticism and I really don't see how they could have acted differently.
As far as SCN-SEN is concerned, are you saying that this route will not operate from 20 October through until early November? It is certainly bookable on the OLT website as I write. At the moment it seems as if they plan to operate these flights, although on past performance it certainly cannot be guaranteed.
I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong regarding Stobart/SEN's not having a commercial agreement in place with OLT Express Germany. As I said earlier, they were expecting the DRS flights to commence today and received no indication that this was not going to happen. If you had tried booking DRS-SEN for the 15 November yesterday on the OLT website you could have done so. This cancellation of today's and the next two days flights appears to have been a very last minute commercial decision by OLT without any reference whatever to SEN.
Stobart/SEN certainly aren't perfect in every way, but on this they do not deserve any criticism and I really don't see how they could have acted differently.
As far as SCN-SEN is concerned, are you saying that this route will not operate from 20 October through until early November? It is certainly bookable on the OLT website as I write. At the moment it seems as if they plan to operate these flights, although on past performance it certainly cannot be guaranteed.
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Expressflight
You must admit, this is messy. SEN has enjoyed a good year and has built
a good reputation.
It would seem then that OLT Express Germany are not reliable as far as SEN is concerned.
How many more cancellations before SEN give OLT Express - The order of the boot.
Not worth the bother...Even if they do turn up on Thursday, for how long?.
OLT Express has nothing to lose, SEN has it's reputation on the line if the pax are messed about.
The very fact they OLT did not communicate with SEN, should be enough for SEN to close the soor on them.
You must admit, this is messy. SEN has enjoyed a good year and has built
a good reputation.
This cancellation of today's and the next two days flights appears to have been a very last minute commercial decision by OLT without any reference whatever to SEN.
How many more cancellations before SEN give OLT Express - The order of the boot.
Not worth the bother...Even if they do turn up on Thursday, for how long?.
OLT Express has nothing to lose, SEN has it's reputation on the line if the pax are messed about.
The very fact they OLT did not communicate with SEN, should be enough for SEN to close the soor on them.
Last edited by Ernest Lanc's; 15th Oct 2012 at 20:35.
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Expressflight mentions that the airport made efforts today to find out how many passengers were booked on the cancelled flight....
Surely shouldn't they know that already??? After all the airport is the only handling agent so the staff should be trained on the airlines policies and the reservation system. If not then they would have a hotline to the OLT operations centre / reservations team.
The staff at SEN should be trained on the airlines operating procedures before a plane just turns up on a route. Even if they were flying A319's or ATR's like the exsisting airlines, they would still require different airline specific operating procedures. OLT are supposedly operating F100's or saabs both of which are new types to SEN. None of the staff have recieved any training yet !!!!
To say they didn't know right up until the last minute if there would be any passengers travelling either way is laughable.
If people on here believe that an airline just turns up on the day without a contract with an airport/handling agents (the same entity in this case) s living in cloud cuckoo land, of course SEN management knew that the airline would not arrive on Monday....
Surely shouldn't they know that already??? After all the airport is the only handling agent so the staff should be trained on the airlines policies and the reservation system. If not then they would have a hotline to the OLT operations centre / reservations team.
The staff at SEN should be trained on the airlines operating procedures before a plane just turns up on a route. Even if they were flying A319's or ATR's like the exsisting airlines, they would still require different airline specific operating procedures. OLT are supposedly operating F100's or saabs both of which are new types to SEN. None of the staff have recieved any training yet !!!!
To say they didn't know right up until the last minute if there would be any passengers travelling either way is laughable.
If people on here believe that an airline just turns up on the day without a contract with an airport/handling agents (the same entity in this case) s living in cloud cuckoo land, of course SEN management knew that the airline would not arrive on Monday....
Last edited by Captain_Caveman; 16th Oct 2012 at 00:56.
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OLT Express has nothing to lose, SEN has it's reputation on the line if the pax are messed about.
So much for German efficiency.
Last edited by LTNman; 16th Oct 2012 at 05:10.
Cavemen
I'm sorry if my use of wording could have been clearer regarding outbound pax. The situation was that I spoke to someone senior at SEN at around 0815, which I think was shortly after the flight plan was cancelled. I mentioned confidentially considerations earlier so I'm not going into details of the exchange between us.
At that time they had heard nothing whatever from OLT, and I feel I must stress this as some people seem to be assuming they knew about the cancellation in advance, although quite why they assume this I cannot fathom. Having this sprung upon them they wanted to ensure that any pax who might arrive at check-in who had not been notified by OLT of the cancellation could be assisted. Obviously in the meantime they were contacting OLT to find out what was going on in order to pass this on to those pax, if any. I hope that makes things a little clearer.
The above has nothing to do with normal procedures and communications between airline and its handling agent, all of which I'm obviously familiar with.
I hope the above clarifies things and also demonstrates that your final comment is way off the mark, much as that might disappoint you.
I'm sorry if my use of wording could have been clearer regarding outbound pax. The situation was that I spoke to someone senior at SEN at around 0815, which I think was shortly after the flight plan was cancelled. I mentioned confidentially considerations earlier so I'm not going into details of the exchange between us.
At that time they had heard nothing whatever from OLT, and I feel I must stress this as some people seem to be assuming they knew about the cancellation in advance, although quite why they assume this I cannot fathom. Having this sprung upon them they wanted to ensure that any pax who might arrive at check-in who had not been notified by OLT of the cancellation could be assisted. Obviously in the meantime they were contacting OLT to find out what was going on in order to pass this on to those pax, if any. I hope that makes things a little clearer.
The above has nothing to do with normal procedures and communications between airline and its handling agent, all of which I'm obviously familiar with.
I hope the above clarifies things and also demonstrates that your final comment is way off the mark, much as that might disappoint you.
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Not all German would start their journey in Germany
Just as a side note: London & area have a huge German population, i.e. people who would commence their journey from a London airport to Germany.
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Just as a side note: London & area have a huge German population, i.e. people who would commence their journey from a London airport to Germany.
Originally Posted by LTNman
Yes but not on day one. The Germans would need to spend at least one night in the UK before returning home. I can't see any English being booked on the service. Anyway there are no flights so there are no passengers using the service.
In fact an a/c has not landed as yet. so it's all speculation.
Last edited by Ernest Lanc's; 16th Oct 2012 at 12:21.
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@Ernest Lanc - My statement merily means that there is an ethnic market for origin at London airports, including a German one.
Not sure how you discover the logic that you have (full flights and more SEN-DRS) from my statement.
Not sure how you discover the logic that you have (full flights and more SEN-DRS) from my statement.