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Sorry AM.
Seems I was misinformed.
Is it just the NQY-LGW & MAN rotations that you do on the based Q400 ?
Wouldn't it make sense if the LGW route closes to use that based Q400 for other routes, ie MAN and then increase EDI etc to make use of the based aircraft ?
Either that or they will pull the based aircraft away and use a MAN based aircraft for that rotation.
cs
Seems I was misinformed.
Is it just the NQY-LGW & MAN rotations that you do on the based Q400 ?
Wouldn't it make sense if the LGW route closes to use that based Q400 for other routes, ie MAN and then increase EDI etc to make use of the based aircraft ?
Either that or they will pull the based aircraft away and use a MAN based aircraft for that rotation.
cs
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cs
No dramas mate. Yes that's effectively the routes it does. On a weekend it covers the LGW/NCL rotation in the morning, and then the double LGW in the evening. On a Sunday it does the early LGW followed by a NQY - MAN - EDI - MAN - NQY and then the last LGW rotation in the evening.
The aircraft is "technically" an Exeter aircraft, but only because Exeter is over crewed to cover this NQY based airframe. As and when it is pulled from NQY next March this doesn't mean it will end up back in Exeter, it'll be where it's needed.
It would make sense to utilise it in the manner in which you state to a point, but the question is what do you do with the aircraft afterwards? The aircraft has to fly at least 8 sectors per day to be even slightly viable, and that would mean a 7am (or near as damn it) departure to an airport that demands a service. Is there a case for a double daily MAN route? Apart from London is there anywhere else in the UK that the Cornish business travellers are commuting to? The "problem" with London is that it offers something for every type of traveller whereas other cities do not.
Could a NQY-SOU-NQY-MAN-NQY rotation work? I know SOU has been discussed here before but it hasn't really been tested. The SOU route that was put on a few years ago was pulled before it even started. That was nothing to do with demand but more to do with a time slot becoming available to utilise the aircraft from SOU but when it was looked at closely the NQY and back schedule was too large for the window of opportunity to use the airframe.
We used to do EDI a few times per week on the airframe before we started the Manchester. I'd have to check my old logbooks to ascertain exactly how many times per week, but it was a few times per week wasn't it? The loads were always ok.
bmi baby was always popular to EMA. Are there enough people willing to travel to a sunshine route from Kernow? Maybe we could try the odd PMI to test the water. End of the day the new CEO will have his master plan which is imminent as far as I know. More will be known about the strategy of Flybe when that's announced and whether we will want to keep/develop NQY any further. Fingers crossed we will.
No dramas mate. Yes that's effectively the routes it does. On a weekend it covers the LGW/NCL rotation in the morning, and then the double LGW in the evening. On a Sunday it does the early LGW followed by a NQY - MAN - EDI - MAN - NQY and then the last LGW rotation in the evening.
The aircraft is "technically" an Exeter aircraft, but only because Exeter is over crewed to cover this NQY based airframe. As and when it is pulled from NQY next March this doesn't mean it will end up back in Exeter, it'll be where it's needed.
It would make sense to utilise it in the manner in which you state to a point, but the question is what do you do with the aircraft afterwards? The aircraft has to fly at least 8 sectors per day to be even slightly viable, and that would mean a 7am (or near as damn it) departure to an airport that demands a service. Is there a case for a double daily MAN route? Apart from London is there anywhere else in the UK that the Cornish business travellers are commuting to? The "problem" with London is that it offers something for every type of traveller whereas other cities do not.
Could a NQY-SOU-NQY-MAN-NQY rotation work? I know SOU has been discussed here before but it hasn't really been tested. The SOU route that was put on a few years ago was pulled before it even started. That was nothing to do with demand but more to do with a time slot becoming available to utilise the aircraft from SOU but when it was looked at closely the NQY and back schedule was too large for the window of opportunity to use the airframe.
We used to do EDI a few times per week on the airframe before we started the Manchester. I'd have to check my old logbooks to ascertain exactly how many times per week, but it was a few times per week wasn't it? The loads were always ok.
bmi baby was always popular to EMA. Are there enough people willing to travel to a sunshine route from Kernow? Maybe we could try the odd PMI to test the water. End of the day the new CEO will have his master plan which is imminent as far as I know. More will be known about the strategy of Flybe when that's announced and whether we will want to keep/develop NQY any further. Fingers crossed we will.
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NQY-MAN - has previously operated 2&3 daily but via BRS and with the ex PLH etc with SZ.
Also WW previously operated 4 or 5 daily on 737s during summer so it's possible that MAN could support a twice daily Q400.
How are the loads on the route ?
NQY-EMA, NQY-LBA , NQY-DUB Are all ex SZ/WW routes that operated for years so there's potential for those also.
Obviously I don't know loads & yields etc
SOU is an interesting one, due to the number of onward routes offered if marketed correctly it could work, for example it would if timed well open up JER, ALC, BCN etc.
Same applies to MAN but marketing for this would be the key
cs
Also WW previously operated 4 or 5 daily on 737s during summer so it's possible that MAN could support a twice daily Q400.
How are the loads on the route ?
NQY-EMA, NQY-LBA , NQY-DUB Are all ex SZ/WW routes that operated for years so there's potential for those also.
Obviously I don't know loads & yields etc
SOU is an interesting one, due to the number of onward routes offered if marketed correctly it could work, for example it would if timed well open up JER, ALC, BCN etc.
Same applies to MAN but marketing for this would be the key
cs
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Sun routes, more likely in the shoulders and winter as so many here are involved in tourism anyway and it is from Easter to end of summer all the money is made.
That said as other industries grow the position is slowly changing.
That said as other industries grow the position is slowly changing.
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It's been said many times already, Q400's, Airbus's and Boeing's are too large a aircraft for the year round Cornwall catchment area, what Cornwall needs is a modern day Bill Bryce to take the bull by the horns and start an operation of between 20 and 50 seater aircraft!
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DJ,
Cornwall needs a minimum of a five and two half days a week morning and evening service to a civilised hub, preferably LON but MAN as an alternative, many many years ago BMA were pulling out, much the same as FlyBE are pulling out now, and a particular hard nosed Kiwi bought the aeroplane and took the route on himself.
Dornier, Jetstream, Saab, those are the type of aircraft required, as for the operator ... well that's a different matter!
And just what did happen to the group claiming to have all the infastructure to restart schedules out of a re-opened PLH ... NQY ain't so far away now is it?
Cornwall needs a minimum of a five and two half days a week morning and evening service to a civilised hub, preferably LON but MAN as an alternative, many many years ago BMA were pulling out, much the same as FlyBE are pulling out now, and a particular hard nosed Kiwi bought the aeroplane and took the route on himself.
Dornier, Jetstream, Saab, those are the type of aircraft required, as for the operator ... well that's a different matter!
And just what did happen to the group claiming to have all the infastructure to restart schedules out of a re-opened PLH ... NQY ain't so far away now is it?
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As Phileas puts states it has all been said before, only small sub 50 seat aircraft with frequency will work here and then we are back to the question of where will you land in London.
I will be back in Canada shortly and have access to available aircraft and a current EC operating licence to put it on, if it was that simple I would consider doing it and get a team together. It isn't and a government subsidy wouldn't make it any easier.
Arguably Skybus would be the best people to mount a London service but as said before why should they, why take the risk? Why endanger a cosy profitable airline, bigger isn't always better.
But there is a bigger picture...
Even if someone does get a London service of the ground again that does not solve Newquay's financial problems, time I feel to look at selling the place to private investors, people that understand the commercial World and save the local rate payers a lot of money.
I would love to get the chance to look at the costs at the airport because I bet the Council haven't taken a hard nosed look, just tinkered at the edges. An example, no disrespect to the current MD but I understand his salary is in excess of £125K. I am sure he warrants this but isn't that a bit like your local village footie team signing Christiano Ronaldo as striker........
This is a tiny regional airport struggling to survive, can someone please start running the place in survival mode.......lets have less money in and less waffle out. As for a £10 development fee, laughable.
I will be back in Canada shortly and have access to available aircraft and a current EC operating licence to put it on, if it was that simple I would consider doing it and get a team together. It isn't and a government subsidy wouldn't make it any easier.
Arguably Skybus would be the best people to mount a London service but as said before why should they, why take the risk? Why endanger a cosy profitable airline, bigger isn't always better.
But there is a bigger picture...
Even if someone does get a London service of the ground again that does not solve Newquay's financial problems, time I feel to look at selling the place to private investors, people that understand the commercial World and save the local rate payers a lot of money.
I would love to get the chance to look at the costs at the airport because I bet the Council haven't taken a hard nosed look, just tinkered at the edges. An example, no disrespect to the current MD but I understand his salary is in excess of £125K. I am sure he warrants this but isn't that a bit like your local village footie team signing Christiano Ronaldo as striker........
This is a tiny regional airport struggling to survive, can someone please start running the place in survival mode.......lets have less money in and less waffle out. As for a £10 development fee, laughable.
Last edited by GROUNDHOG; 25th Oct 2013 at 15:47.
How about going back to the old Dan Air Link City days and do NQY-DSA-PIK-MME-BOH-NQY and then the reverse the following day - that would keep these boards spinning for months! 
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NQY-LON airports
As Phileas puts states it has all been said before, only small sub 50 seat aircraft with frequency will work here and then we are back to the question of where will you land in London.
Clearly a SEN-type terminal-adjacant-to-station setup would be needed for the Central line tube and Chiltern railways. The latter could provide a 17 minute train journey to London-Marylebone.
Other London airports are unsuitable: LCY and LGW charge too much (hence BE's impending departure from the latter); LTN, SEN and STN are too far with slow and/or complicated rail access.
As for LHR.....let's not go there: tragically the best option (because of the connecting possibilities as well as point to point) is too expensive, too crowded, too prone to delays, and has slot acquisition problems.
Even if someone does get a London service of the ground again that does not solve Newquay's financial problems, time I feel to look at selling the place to private investors, people that understand the commercial World and save the local rate payers a lot of money.
How about going back to the old Dan Air Link City days and do NQY-DSA-PIK-MME-BOH-NQY and then the reverse the following day - that would keep these boards spinning for months!
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 25th Oct 2013 at 18:46.
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The NQY, and indeed PLH, routes had LHR slots until some tin pot outfit took those away!
Now I wonder who that was and perhaps that tin pot outfit's previous owner, and ongoing chaperone, could kindly request that said tin pot outfit give said slots back in lieu of previous owner/ongoing chaperone forking out buckets loads of taxpayers money on a PSO subsidy to some outer London area airport!
Now I wonder who that was and perhaps that tin pot outfit's previous owner, and ongoing chaperone, could kindly request that said tin pot outfit give said slots back in lieu of previous owner/ongoing chaperone forking out buckets loads of taxpayers money on a PSO subsidy to some outer London area airport!
Last edited by Phileas Fogg; 26th Oct 2013 at 13:33.
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I would suggest that a twice daily BA A319 could be sustained on NQY-LHR with the connectivity that it would provide.
Just look at how many people cross over the Tamar on the train with luggage tagged to LHR but who are in fact Plymouth/Cornwall area
cs
Just look at how many people cross over the Tamar on the train with luggage tagged to LHR but who are in fact Plymouth/Cornwall area
cs
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How many is it then? Can you honestly say what the p2p loads Oct-May on LHR-NQY are to justify any commercial return on a slot? I genuinely would like to know the number of connecting pax from the NQY area flying on from LHR.
Why do BA need to serve NQY when they can make the passengers use the train and use the slots for more profitable international routes? There's no need to serve NQY, as unlike LBA, they're hardly fighting for market share with KLM. BA tried LGW-NQY a while back, just after they dropped the BRT DHC8 run. Hardly a success. If you want to live in one of the most remote parts of the UK then great, however you asking a lot for the world to serve your local airport just cos you live nearby, it's not as if there's a load of industry in the area. Cornwall's tourism and second homes, it's never, ever going to justify a LHR slot, certainly not twice daily on an A319.
Inverness would be before you in the queue for that one!
Why do BA need to serve NQY when they can make the passengers use the train and use the slots for more profitable international routes? There's no need to serve NQY, as unlike LBA, they're hardly fighting for market share with KLM. BA tried LGW-NQY a while back, just after they dropped the BRT DHC8 run. Hardly a success. If you want to live in one of the most remote parts of the UK then great, however you asking a lot for the world to serve your local airport just cos you live nearby, it's not as if there's a load of industry in the area. Cornwall's tourism and second homes, it's never, ever going to justify a LHR slot, certainly not twice daily on an A319.
Inverness would be before you in the queue for that one!
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Skipness; when I read the suggestion earlier on of a double daily BA I immediately thought of BA's LBA route which you mention.
If we look at the stats for BE's frequent service to LGW, I recall it amounts to about 160/170 each day in each direction. That without growth, would amount to a plane a day in each direction, say 319/320, to work it would need to be a night stop at NQY in the evening and depart early morning for peak morning arrival time. These are like hens teeth. This winter timetable BA's first departure ex Belfast for LHR is 0750 arriving 0915!!! This is a big domestic route for BA and they have no pre 9am arrival into LHR for it. Hence, NQY almost impossible.
Back to LBA comparison , I'm not convinced BA would have ordinarily gone for this route, but at the time of the Bmi takeover and the farming out of ex Bmi slots for competition on domestic routes BA certainly wanted to convinced the relevant authorities that they will support domestics, and with the absence of Bmi on MAN it certainly was a good experiment to use some of the capacity on LBA...
The stats and available data would not inspire BA to revisit NQY...
If we look at the stats for BE's frequent service to LGW, I recall it amounts to about 160/170 each day in each direction. That without growth, would amount to a plane a day in each direction, say 319/320, to work it would need to be a night stop at NQY in the evening and depart early morning for peak morning arrival time. These are like hens teeth. This winter timetable BA's first departure ex Belfast for LHR is 0750 arriving 0915!!! This is a big domestic route for BA and they have no pre 9am arrival into LHR for it. Hence, NQY almost impossible.
Back to LBA comparison , I'm not convinced BA would have ordinarily gone for this route, but at the time of the Bmi takeover and the farming out of ex Bmi slots for competition on domestic routes BA certainly wanted to convinced the relevant authorities that they will support domestics, and with the absence of Bmi on MAN it certainly was a good experiment to use some of the capacity on LBA...
The stats and available data would not inspire BA to revisit NQY...
Last edited by EI-BUD; 26th Oct 2013 at 16:53.
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Skipness - as iv previously suggested, in my opinion your attitude stinks especially to anything I post or anything anyone posts that contradicts your opinion.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
What makes your opinion more correct than mine ? Do tell please ?
Equally, I openly admit I'm just an interested observer, who happens to pay council tax to CCC.
I do like the you choose to live in Cornwall, you don't deserve decent transport links opinion !
For the record my personal opinion is that a twice daily A319 to LHR with connections would be sustainable. I don't have figures for how many people from Cornwall fly from LHR yearly that could use a lhr link but with respect neither do you.
Also I'm saying that they could sell the seats, not that they would provide decent yield.
cs
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
What makes your opinion more correct than mine ? Do tell please ?
Equally, I openly admit I'm just an interested observer, who happens to pay council tax to CCC.
I do like the you choose to live in Cornwall, you don't deserve decent transport links opinion !
For the record my personal opinion is that a twice daily A319 to LHR with connections would be sustainable. I don't have figures for how many people from Cornwall fly from LHR yearly that could use a lhr link but with respect neither do you.
Also I'm saying that they could sell the seats, not that they would provide decent yield.
cs
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
What makes your opinion more correct than mine ? Do tell please ?
What makes your opinion more correct than mine ? Do tell please ?
Also I'm saying that they could sell the seats, not that they would provide decent yield.
I do like the you choose to live in Cornwall, you don't deserve decent transport links opinion !
Having said that if they want BA badly enough, they could pony up some properly serious money to Willie Walsh. I imagine it might be a lot more than the council tax payers would stomach.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 26th Oct 2013 at 19:16.
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Skipness
Sorry but your attitude is exactly what's wrong with the country.
This is why the NHS outside of vast population bases is a joke, this is why there no 24 hour fire service cover apart from two stations.
It's the I'm a Londoner and bugger the rest of you attitude.
Suppose it's fine until such time as you decide to retire to Cornwall ey !
And for the record I also did a marketing/advertising job before I decided to do something worthwhile with my life, and with respect if you market it correctly you can sell ice to Eskimos
cs
Sorry but your attitude is exactly what's wrong with the country.
This is why the NHS outside of vast population bases is a joke, this is why there no 24 hour fire service cover apart from two stations.
It's the I'm a Londoner and bugger the rest of you attitude.
Suppose it's fine until such time as you decide to retire to Cornwall ey !
And for the record I also did a marketing/advertising job before I decided to do something worthwhile with my life, and with respect if you market it correctly you can sell ice to Eskimos
cs
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Suppose it's fine until such time as you decide to retire to Cornwall ey !
It's the I'm a Londoner and bugger the rest of you attitude.
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Where did I state it was commercially viable ?
What I did say is that they could fill the flights I'm sure, filling a flight and it being commercially viable is totally different which is why iv never said it.
cs
What I did say is that they could fill the flights I'm sure, filling a flight and it being commercially viable is totally different which is why iv never said it.
cs
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For the record my personal opinion is that a twice daily A319 to LHR with connections would be sustainable. I don't have figures for how many people from Cornwall fly from LHR yearly that could use a lhr link but with respect neither do you.
I get the whole debate about regional airports, in Ireland the debate has been huge especially since PSO's have been removed in the main. Why should local tax payers pay for a council investment that is for 160 people each way per day. BE know the stats, the revenue, the amount of P2P, transfer pax etc. if it stacks up, they would look at an alternate service to another London airport, I.e. LTN. If not it's says a lot to other potential airlines as there are no other operators. Given there are no other operators you'd imagine they would....