NEWQUAY
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Just a long shot suggestion. Skybus I seem to recall operate a St Mary's - Southampton service in the summer. A year round service St Mary's- Newquay- Southampton might provide both the Scillies and Newquay with a service that connects with a fast London rail connection. As a past habitant of Hampshire, I found the airport and rail connection far less hassle than some of the alternatives.
Join Date: Feb 1999
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I used the SOU - IOS service a few times satisfactorily.Southampton offers a 1 hour 12 minute train service to central London and from an Air traffic point of view saves a relatively slow moving aircraft getting caught up in the complications and delays of the London area airports elaborate arrival procedures.My wife did not enjoy the delights of the Twin Otter on what seemed quite a long flight.The fare was very substantial too!! VBR Stampe
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devonish, do you mean APD, set by the govt or Airport Development Fee (ADF)? I have not seen any mention of rise - can you link to an announcement?
Incidentally the twotter I think is exempt from APD as according the spec it is under 5.7 tonnes.
Incidentally the twotter I think is exempt from APD as according the spec it is under 5.7 tonnes.
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No formal announcement made, just comments by Cornwall Council (unrelated to the ongoings on the London route) that due to Council budget cuts as part of a raft of other measures they may be forced to double the ADF at NQY.
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Hey Phileas I bet you are still in short trousers out there in the tropics, not that I am jealous of course as I sit here in my rocking chair waiting for the nursing home to call. No less than 43 years ago that I sent my first Islander westward to Newquay and it still feels like yesterday.
OK so please bear with me on this but once and for all here is my understanding based on those 43 years.
There are two distinct problems. The survival of Newquay as an airport and the survival of the London air service. Neither is absolutely dependent on the other.
Newquay Airport
I have said this so many times that it is now getting boring, the airport will only have a future by building its non scheduled infrastructure and so far the powers that be seem to be having a good crack at that, maintenance company, parting out, museum, put a swimming pool and a ski slope in one of the hangars but whatever brings in long term money is more grist to the mill.
If that still does not cover costs then it has to be sold or close, I don't want my council tax continuing to go down the drain.
Air service to London
srobarts 'long shot' is actually not so long and could be one option. Yes laugh at the Twin Otter but in recent years I have flown more on Twin Otters in Canada than anything else, for a route like Newquay to London ( whichever airport) they are not a bad option. Skybus is the one airline that could if the management were willing provide an answer. The big problem is the fare that would have to be charged, traditionally the first class rail fare has always been the target. Could that level cover the costs?
As so many have said the 100 plus seat jets are not for a route like this so what other options are there?
Southampton - yes?
Brighton City - possibly?
Biggin Hill - no 'fare paying flights' .....so here is today's long shot. Fly passengers to Biggin Hill for free, it is a stones throw from the City and not far from LGW. How about Biggin, Newquay (or), St Mary's, that would help our friends in the Isles of Scilly somewhat!!
Of course flying the passengers for free they will also expect to be picked up from home and delivered to wherever they are going, like Virgin Upper Class and after all why not? Least they can expect when paying. nothing Naturally a charge will apply to the car element of the journey..... a little above the first class train fare should suffice.
Also to qualify this will be a members only club, much like the Trowbridge Cage Bird Society or Left Handed Club ( some will be old enough to remember).
All quite legal, if anyone fancies giving it a crack just let me know.....
Allow me to finish on a quote from Sir Stelios to me when he started easyjet " Of course ....., you know all the 'experts' said this would never work".
I rest my case.Senility is just round the corner according to Phileas!!
OK so please bear with me on this but once and for all here is my understanding based on those 43 years.
There are two distinct problems. The survival of Newquay as an airport and the survival of the London air service. Neither is absolutely dependent on the other.
Newquay Airport
I have said this so many times that it is now getting boring, the airport will only have a future by building its non scheduled infrastructure and so far the powers that be seem to be having a good crack at that, maintenance company, parting out, museum, put a swimming pool and a ski slope in one of the hangars but whatever brings in long term money is more grist to the mill.
If that still does not cover costs then it has to be sold or close, I don't want my council tax continuing to go down the drain.
Air service to London
srobarts 'long shot' is actually not so long and could be one option. Yes laugh at the Twin Otter but in recent years I have flown more on Twin Otters in Canada than anything else, for a route like Newquay to London ( whichever airport) they are not a bad option. Skybus is the one airline that could if the management were willing provide an answer. The big problem is the fare that would have to be charged, traditionally the first class rail fare has always been the target. Could that level cover the costs?
As so many have said the 100 plus seat jets are not for a route like this so what other options are there?
Southampton - yes?
Brighton City - possibly?
Biggin Hill - no 'fare paying flights' .....so here is today's long shot. Fly passengers to Biggin Hill for free, it is a stones throw from the City and not far from LGW. How about Biggin, Newquay (or), St Mary's, that would help our friends in the Isles of Scilly somewhat!!
Of course flying the passengers for free they will also expect to be picked up from home and delivered to wherever they are going, like Virgin Upper Class and after all why not? Least they can expect when paying. nothing Naturally a charge will apply to the car element of the journey..... a little above the first class train fare should suffice.
Also to qualify this will be a members only club, much like the Trowbridge Cage Bird Society or Left Handed Club ( some will be old enough to remember).
All quite legal, if anyone fancies giving it a crack just let me know.....
Allow me to finish on a quote from Sir Stelios to me when he started easyjet " Of course ....., you know all the 'experts' said this would never work".
I rest my case.Senility is just round the corner according to Phileas!!
Last edited by GROUNDHOG; 2nd Oct 2013 at 18:49.
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Morning GROUNDHOG,
Yep, sitting here in my short trousers just brewing the coffee whilst greeting our guests in this little holiday haven and the weather is, just by way of a change, just fine.
All I can suggest is that many years ago Air UK had a Bandit operation EXT/SOU/AMS/SOU/EXT so perhaps NQY/SOU/AMS/SOU/NQY might work, a 15 minute (ish) transit in SOU in each direction for those travelling to/from London and onwards to/from AMS for those connecting internationally.
BUT ... Air UK had a codeshare with KLM and a KLM codeshare would need to be a "must" for such an operation to work and it would need to be a speedier and more comfortable aircraft that a 150kt fixed undercarriage Twotter!
A Shoreham operation would last about as long as Brighton City Airways, what with restricted runway dimensions, b*gger all navigational aids and p1ss poor public transport connections.
Alas Biggin wouldn't work either, I doubt Biggin would even want to risk upsetting Bromley Council and/or ending up in court for clearly bucking the system.
Yep, sitting here in my short trousers just brewing the coffee whilst greeting our guests in this little holiday haven and the weather is, just by way of a change, just fine.
All I can suggest is that many years ago Air UK had a Bandit operation EXT/SOU/AMS/SOU/EXT so perhaps NQY/SOU/AMS/SOU/NQY might work, a 15 minute (ish) transit in SOU in each direction for those travelling to/from London and onwards to/from AMS for those connecting internationally.
BUT ... Air UK had a codeshare with KLM and a KLM codeshare would need to be a "must" for such an operation to work and it would need to be a speedier and more comfortable aircraft that a 150kt fixed undercarriage Twotter!
A Shoreham operation would last about as long as Brighton City Airways, what with restricted runway dimensions, b*gger all navigational aids and p1ss poor public transport connections.
Alas Biggin wouldn't work either, I doubt Biggin would even want to risk upsetting Bromley Council and/or ending up in court for clearly bucking the system.
.....Flybe already codeshare with KLM on SOU-AMS.
Must admit hadn't thought of the SOU angle. A Q400 SOU-NQY would probably be, what, 45 mins, and as those of us who use it know, you can be off a flight and onto a train or into the car in 15 mins at SOU.
Flybe almost launched the route a few years ago (using their inherited 145's), it was put on sale, then dropped before the operation started. However, at the time ASW were still operating their fairly high frequency schedule from LGW, and RYR were operating 738's twice a day from STN. All that competition is now gone (during the winter anyway).
SOU of course offers many other connections on the Flybe network....domestic trunk routes, Channel Islands, Regional France, Spain etc.
Must admit hadn't thought of the SOU angle. A Q400 SOU-NQY would probably be, what, 45 mins, and as those of us who use it know, you can be off a flight and onto a train or into the car in 15 mins at SOU.
Flybe almost launched the route a few years ago (using their inherited 145's), it was put on sale, then dropped before the operation started. However, at the time ASW were still operating their fairly high frequency schedule from LGW, and RYR were operating 738's twice a day from STN. All that competition is now gone (during the winter anyway).
SOU of course offers many other connections on the Flybe network....domestic trunk routes, Channel Islands, Regional France, Spain etc.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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SOU might well work for connections with flybe, just as MAN seems to sustain a daily Q400 during the season.
In other news today, it's reported on local radio that CCC are looking to double the £5.00 ADF next year as part of plans to save money !!!
cs
In other news today, it's reported on local radio that CCC are looking to double the £5.00 ADF next year as part of plans to save money !!!
cs
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And of course there was the British United 'silver arrow' service to Le Touquet via Southampton ...... agree entirely anything on NQY/SOU would have to be small. Skybus probably best placed to do it, problem is at what price to make it profitable.
IoS steamship company have a lovely little business in Skybus, sole operator to an airport they own, absolutely no competition and at whatever price they like. Why change that with a risky route?
Only time will tell but things are looking like the weather down here at the moment, a bit on the bleak side!
As to raising the development fee, utter madness! So for a family of four on one of the 'let's try Newquay' charters to Turkey or Bulgaria has to pay an extra £40 before they start - that gives a real incentive doesn't it.
IoS steamship company have a lovely little business in Skybus, sole operator to an airport they own, absolutely no competition and at whatever price they like. Why change that with a risky route?
Only time will tell but things are looking like the weather down here at the moment, a bit on the bleak side!
As to raising the development fee, utter madness! So for a family of four on one of the 'let's try Newquay' charters to Turkey or Bulgaria has to pay an extra £40 before they start - that gives a real incentive doesn't it.
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Brymon Airways started a route to London Heathrow many years ago
Type:
Handley Page HPR.7 Herald 214
Owner / Operator:
British Midland Airways (BD / BMA)
Location:
RAF St Mawgan / Newquay (NQY / EGDG), UK - England
Date:
1974
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Ah, days gone by.... so, delving into my reference books reveals that in April 1963 British Westpoint Airlines opened the London link and flew DC-3s from Newquay to Heathrow, via Exeter. British Eagle took over the route in the mid-60s, at one time using BAC One-Elevens. Following British Eagle's collapse in 1968 Dan-Air moved in with Dakotas and Ambassadors. British Midland took over the licence in the early 1970s and flew Viscounts as well as Heralds ont he route.
Last edited by Barling Magna; 7th Oct 2013 at 13:14.
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Whoever wrote the book is partly right, I was station manager Gatwick at that time (1969-70) with Westward Airways, I know exactly what went on. I go back to 1965 at Gatwick so remember the flights mentioned. The route was even flown by Southend Air Taxis for a few weeks, the reference books will tell you it was a Chieftain but in fact it was on a Cessna 272, Westward flew LGW/LHR/PLH/NQY/ISC, twice a day on the 'long haul' and four times LGW/LHR. It was so bad in the end we told the passengers the aircraft was tech and put them in a taxi at our costs so we did not have to fly with only one or two on board.
Back to NQY and EGHQ's post
So much I agree with there, but a couple of things I do not.I do not believe that NQY airport is vital to the future of the Cornish economy. I would rather the Council spent £3million a year more constructively to develop the infrastructure here. If the airport cannot pay its way under the Council sell it to someone who can make it pay or close it.
Connecting over other points makes complete sense, but, no one is going to fly from Newquay to say Dublin to catch Ryanair to Nice. If I want to fly West I want to fly West not east for two hours first. How do I get to Vancouver for instance, not over Dublin or Manchester for sure, Paris, Amsterdam maybe but it is back to the old problem of travelling an hour in the wrong direction. Quicker and easier to go to Heathrow. Same reason it is alien to fly to Southend to go to London City, to go to Nice that is a different matter. Curiously then the success of the NQY/SEN route depends far more on the success of SEN in having a good range of connections than it does on NQY itself! Pointless relying on incoming tourist traffic from Southend catchment area.
Why advertise an airport, if anyone east of Liskeard doesn't know there is an airport at Newquay they are likely to be the sort of person that wouldn't be using it anyway.
The airlines and tour operators that use the airport need to advertise the services THEY offer but that is a matter of individual decision.
Simple fact is with nowhere sensible to land that offers good connections and London is the logical choice, the future is far from a proper job!
Back to NQY and EGHQ's post
So much I agree with there, but a couple of things I do not.I do not believe that NQY airport is vital to the future of the Cornish economy. I would rather the Council spent £3million a year more constructively to develop the infrastructure here. If the airport cannot pay its way under the Council sell it to someone who can make it pay or close it.
Connecting over other points makes complete sense, but, no one is going to fly from Newquay to say Dublin to catch Ryanair to Nice. If I want to fly West I want to fly West not east for two hours first. How do I get to Vancouver for instance, not over Dublin or Manchester for sure, Paris, Amsterdam maybe but it is back to the old problem of travelling an hour in the wrong direction. Quicker and easier to go to Heathrow. Same reason it is alien to fly to Southend to go to London City, to go to Nice that is a different matter. Curiously then the success of the NQY/SEN route depends far more on the success of SEN in having a good range of connections than it does on NQY itself! Pointless relying on incoming tourist traffic from Southend catchment area.
Why advertise an airport, if anyone east of Liskeard doesn't know there is an airport at Newquay they are likely to be the sort of person that wouldn't be using it anyway.
The airlines and tour operators that use the airport need to advertise the services THEY offer but that is a matter of individual decision.
Simple fact is with nowhere sensible to land that offers good connections and London is the logical choice, the future is far from a proper job!
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SOU might well work for connections with flybe, just as MAN seems to sustain a daily Q400 during the season
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You are quite right they did indeed use a 337 for quite a few trips, it was around the time one of the Islanders has an unfortunate landing in the Isles of Scilly. My memory is what a great little aeroplane and what a super bunch they were at Southend. A long time ago now but do not remember the cherokee six though it is quite possible