NEWQUAY
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London
London heathrow - no slots
London gatwick - no airlines
London stansted - possible
London luton. - possible
Southend. - not really a london airport but easyjet could increase flights
London gatwick - no airlines
London stansted - possible
London luton. - possible
Southend. - not really a london airport but easyjet could increase flights
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No Mikkie they aren't but it takes around an hour from Southend to London by train having just flown over it. Add that to at least an hour check in, transit times, waiting times, flight times and I could have got on the train with a choice of departures every 20 minutes or so.
My main reason for catching the flight to LGW has been to connect to other flights especially long haul and that isn't an option from Southend now is it?
My main reason for catching the flight to LGW has been to connect to other flights especially long haul and that isn't an option from Southend now is it?
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Southend is clearly not a replacement for LGW; no interlining possible. It COULD though serve as a London destination for the Cornish businessperson who needs to visit the capital; EZY's A319 service to SEN takes only a few minutes longer than FlyBE's Dash 8 to LGW. The direct rail line from SEN gets you into Liverpool St in 53 minutes. Transit times through the efficient new terminal at SEN are minimal, so that saves a few minutes. It's certainly not LGW, or LHR, or LTN, but it is about all NQY is likely to get in the London area and it can compete with the often unsatisfactory and expensive train service. At least you get a seat on an A319, you don't always on an HST....
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What airlines get from NQY: seasonal leisure traffic at not particularly high yields.
Hmm. One of these things is not like the other. Sorry.
Have any of the recent posters actually carried out a analysis of travel times to various point in London from each of the LON airports?
I was asked to do so a year ago and I can offer just one result of that analysis here, with the kind permission of the commissioning body. This is overall train/tube travel to four main tourist/business districts of London based on total travel time from baggage carousel to these destinations combined. They take no account of the relative time taken from touchdown to reaching the carousel. I suspect such an analysis carried out today would reflect slightly better on SEN in that respect.
The percentage travel times relative to SEN are:
LTN 100%
STN 98%
LHR 91%
LGW 87%
LCY 58%
Draw what conclusions you may from these figures, but at least those conclusions will be based on something other than guesswork or wishful thinking in some cases.
My apologies for taking this thread even further off topic.
I was asked to do so a year ago and I can offer just one result of that analysis here, with the kind permission of the commissioning body. This is overall train/tube travel to four main tourist/business districts of London based on total travel time from baggage carousel to these destinations combined. They take no account of the relative time taken from touchdown to reaching the carousel. I suspect such an analysis carried out today would reflect slightly better on SEN in that respect.
The percentage travel times relative to SEN are:
LTN 100%
STN 98%
LHR 91%
LGW 87%
LCY 58%
Draw what conclusions you may from these figures, but at least those conclusions will be based on something other than guesswork or wishful thinking in some cases.
My apologies for taking this thread even further off topic.
Last edited by Expressflight; 2nd Oct 2013 at 13:59.
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Expressflight,
Being so pro-Southend you are missing the point that GROUNDHOG makes and indeed I have made in the past.
The west country needs a west London airport, failing that, bearing in mind that NQY is to the south-west, then a south London airport, failing both of those then an airport to the north of London, failing all three of those then to the north-east of London and the last thing the west country needs is an airport east of London.
Never mind travelling time once one gets on the ground, what's the route distance NQY/LHR, NQY/LGW, even NQY/LTN compared to NQY/SEN then there is the mental thing "we just passed LHR 20 minutes ago and now we have to go all the way back again".
SEN has it's markets but the west country ain't one of them, in this scenario MAN makes for a better London alternative than SEN!
Being so pro-Southend you are missing the point that GROUNDHOG makes and indeed I have made in the past.
The west country needs a west London airport, failing that, bearing in mind that NQY is to the south-west, then a south London airport, failing both of those then an airport to the north of London, failing all three of those then to the north-east of London and the last thing the west country needs is an airport east of London.
Never mind travelling time once one gets on the ground, what's the route distance NQY/LHR, NQY/LGW, even NQY/LTN compared to NQY/SEN then there is the mental thing "we just passed LHR 20 minutes ago and now we have to go all the way back again".
SEN has it's markets but the west country ain't one of them, in this scenario MAN makes for a better London alternative than SEN!
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Phileas is of course quite right about the aversion to backtracking when taking any route. Go way back to the 60's and 70's and even then it was pretty hard to get anyone to book a flight which involved going over the same ground twice. Possibly no logical reason but it is none the less a major factor to account for when you understand the business.
When comparing the train with flying you must also consider the geography of Cornwall and the major conurbations. Look at the location of Newquay in relation to say Penzance where the train terminates. You would need an extra hour to get to Newquay before you start if you live that far West. I am relatively near to Newquay ( even nearer to Culdrose) but a taxi driver will say 45 minutes to reach the airport but I can be at Truro Station in 10 minutes - so it isn't that simple.
Flexibility is so important especially if you do not wish to night stop, one rotation a day does not allow the possibility of flying up for a meeting and returning the same day, in that case what is the advantage of flying over surface transport?
There is a solution as I have said earlier, I have already muted it to the right people but it would involve a lot of co operation and in the end is insufficient to prove whether or not Newquay Airport is viable in the long term. That is the bottom line of this thread surely.
When comparing the train with flying you must also consider the geography of Cornwall and the major conurbations. Look at the location of Newquay in relation to say Penzance where the train terminates. You would need an extra hour to get to Newquay before you start if you live that far West. I am relatively near to Newquay ( even nearer to Culdrose) but a taxi driver will say 45 minutes to reach the airport but I can be at Truro Station in 10 minutes - so it isn't that simple.
Flexibility is so important especially if you do not wish to night stop, one rotation a day does not allow the possibility of flying up for a meeting and returning the same day, in that case what is the advantage of flying over surface transport?
There is a solution as I have said earlier, I have already muted it to the right people but it would involve a lot of co operation and in the end is insufficient to prove whether or not Newquay Airport is viable in the long term. That is the bottom line of this thread surely.
Phileas
With the greatest respect I'm not missing the point at all. Other than that first line of your latest post I agree with everything you say.
I don't believe that SEN is a natural choice airport for a NQY-LON service and have never suggested otherwise. In showing the relative train travel times to LON from each airport I was merely trying to be helpful in illustrating that quotes such as "Southend - not really a london airport" and "And Luton is neither!" are not to be taken seriously. Mind you perhaps they were intended to be rather tongue in cheek remarks anyway.
With the greatest respect I'm not missing the point at all. Other than that first line of your latest post I agree with everything you say.
I don't believe that SEN is a natural choice airport for a NQY-LON service and have never suggested otherwise. In showing the relative train travel times to LON from each airport I was merely trying to be helpful in illustrating that quotes such as "Southend - not really a london airport" and "And Luton is neither!" are not to be taken seriously. Mind you perhaps they were intended to be rather tongue in cheek remarks anyway.
Let us suppose for a moment that the London-Newquay route (ignoring Southend) is left vacant. What ramifications would this have ? Would the county Govt sustain the losses ? Any kind of appeal to Westminster / EU Category 1 ?
How do places like the far west of Wales (beyond Swansea / Llandudno) survive being so disconnected from London ?
How do places like the far west of Wales (beyond Swansea / Llandudno) survive being so disconnected from London ?
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Expressflight,
Yes, I could quite see the "Bedfordshire Hill Mob" getting their twopenny worth in having yet another kick at SEN at yet, what they see as, another opportunity and I could observe you defending that.
I've been an admirer of SEN since, when back in the day, "we" at Air UK might lob a number of Fokkers, not to mention Sheds, in to SEN of an evening when pretty much all else was fogged out.
Just the other day, in these threads, the CWL Reggie Spotters saw their opportunity to have yet another kick at BRS, much alike LTN kicking SEN, don't these guys have other things to do, don't they have wives or girlfriends?
Right, off to better things, last week my resort enjoyed an occupancy rate of 97% during the annual surfing competition ... it was frigging madness, tonight just a mere 63% and it's lovely
Yes, I could quite see the "Bedfordshire Hill Mob" getting their twopenny worth in having yet another kick at SEN at yet, what they see as, another opportunity and I could observe you defending that.
I've been an admirer of SEN since, when back in the day, "we" at Air UK might lob a number of Fokkers, not to mention Sheds, in to SEN of an evening when pretty much all else was fogged out.
Just the other day, in these threads, the CWL Reggie Spotters saw their opportunity to have yet another kick at BRS, much alike LTN kicking SEN, don't these guys have other things to do, don't they have wives or girlfriends?
Right, off to better things, last week my resort enjoyed an occupancy rate of 97% during the annual surfing competition ... it was frigging madness, tonight just a mere 63% and it's lovely
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DJ6,
But it won't be left vacant, much alike Brighton City Airways and/or the Fokkers of Kidlington, someone, somewhere, shall be waiting in the wings with the "puddle jumper", twice/thrice daily, service that NQY merits.
Such operators cannot possibly compete with LoCo's such as EZY so they'll just be sitting there, waiting, for said LoCo(s) to b*gger off and then they're likely to come out making their route announcements
But it won't be left vacant, much alike Brighton City Airways and/or the Fokkers of Kidlington, someone, somewhere, shall be waiting in the wings with the "puddle jumper", twice/thrice daily, service that NQY merits.
Such operators cannot possibly compete with LoCo's such as EZY so they'll just be sitting there, waiting, for said LoCo(s) to b*gger off and then they're likely to come out making their route announcements
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Such operators cannot possibly compete with LoCo's
I think LCY, LGW and clearly LHR are not likely or even viable anymore, which leaves leisure to LTN, STN or SEN. None are likely to be much use beyond summer leisure.
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S1E,
Not to show my age but around the time you were born I was working with the PLH & NQY operator & airline and I learned just a tad of what the local market requires ... and it ain't a LoCo with a bright orange jet!
But ... I am one to listen to the voice of experience so I hand over to GROUNDHOG who was involved in NQY operations whilst it's likely that I was still wearing short trousers.
Not to show my age but around the time you were born I was working with the PLH & NQY operator & airline and I learned just a tad of what the local market requires ... and it ain't a LoCo with a bright orange jet!
But ... I am one to listen to the voice of experience so I hand over to GROUNDHOG who was involved in NQY operations whilst it's likely that I was still wearing short trousers.
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and I learned just a tad of what the local market requires ... and it ain't a LoCo with a bright orange jet!
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 2nd Oct 2013 at 16:05.
Can't help thinking that if there was Rwy3 at LHR or Rwy2 or LGW this could all be so different, as there might be capacity to allow these "lifeline" services to operate, but I also appreciate there would need to be a set of financial circumstances that could ensure viability (eg, Govt could make it a condition of development permission)
But, this is the UK, where politicians continually kick these difficult subjects into the long grass, and leave it as a problem for the next regime.
Meanwhile, the good business folk trying to improve the economic lot of the SW are left with useless connectivity (and I mean trains as well as aeroplanes) due to centuries of underinvestment, dithering and pandering to Nimby's.
Glad I got that off my chest!
But, this is the UK, where politicians continually kick these difficult subjects into the long grass, and leave it as a problem for the next regime.
Meanwhile, the good business folk trying to improve the economic lot of the SW are left with useless connectivity (and I mean trains as well as aeroplanes) due to centuries of underinvestment, dithering and pandering to Nimby's.
Glad I got that off my chest!
Last edited by Wycombe; 2nd Oct 2013 at 16:34.