CARDIFF - 2

[marko1]

Originally Posted by Letsflycwl

Yes totally agree, once the APD devolution happens then I'm sure there will be an increase in routes and hopefully a resumption on long haul too.

As I've said before, if it's good enough for Scotland and Northern Ireland then it has to apply to Wales too.....even if it is just initially for long haul routes.

Next month may be very interesting indeed and I'm sure BRS management will continue their bleating and moaning about it.

IF Ryanair do offer a few more destinations, would not have thought BTS be at the top of the list but as explained previously there was a market there before from BRS..time will tell

In fairness I think BRS have many grounds to bleat and moan to be frank. What is being argued for is basically a unfair advantage given to one over another. I suspect CWL will see FR at some level probably to some Spanish destinations. I cannot imagine what Vueling and even flybe would be too happy. Perhaps they will leap the other way in response

[Letsflycwl]

Originally Posted by marko1

In fairness I think BRS have many grounds to bleat and moan to be frank. What is being argued for is basically a unfair advantage given to one over another. I suspect CWL will see FR at some level probably to some Spanish destinations. I cannot imagine what Vueling and even flybe would be too happy. Perhaps they will leap the other way in response

Yes but all I'm saying is that if it's ok and fair for Scotland and Northern Ireland then it has to be for Wales too.

You don't see NCL, MME and other northern airports complaining about the Scottish Government and their decision regarding the APD devolution there.

[SWBKCB]

You don't see NCL, MME and other northern airports complaining about the Scottish Government and their decision regarding the APD devolution there.

If you don't see it, you can't be looking very hard - NCL is extreme concerned about the impact of devolved APD. These quotes from a press release on the subject from last September:

The predicted impact of devolved APD upon the airport and the North East is so great that ‘do nothing’ is not an option and any reductions in APD in Scotland should be matched across the rest of the country. If this is not possible, then Scottish reductions should be matched at all non-congested UK airports

Quick guide to the impact of APD scenarios

2025 change in passenger numbers:-
•In the base case, where APD is reduced in Scotland but not in England, Newcastle would see a reduction in passenger numbers of up to 510,000;
•In the status quo scenario, where there are no APD reductions anywhere, there would be no change in passenger numbers compared to currently forecast growth;
•In the 100% reduction scenario, where a 100% reduction in APD in Scotland is matched at non congested airports in England, Newcastle would see a 1,300,000 passenger increase compared to base case scenario, and a 790,000 increase compared to the status quo scenario.

[marko1]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

If you don't see it, you can't be looking very hard - NCL is extreme concerned about the impact of devolved APD. These quotes from a press release on the subject from last September:

Also as well as all was mentioned above the distance between Newcastle and Edinburgh is 120 miles on a non motorway highway while Brs is just an hour away from cwl

[mathers_wales_uk]

In fairness you not got an expensive toll bridge between Scotland & England like the main artery from Wales to England via the M4. (We're buggered whether we drive or fly). :-)

[SWBKCB]

Think we can match your toll bridge (that'll be the one the motorway goes over?) - there isn't even a dual carriageway between Scotland and the North East of England nor a motorway to the rest of England.

[Itchin McCrevis]

Yes but all I'm saying is that if it's ok and fair for Scotland and Northern Ireland then it has to be for Wales too.

has to be? why? - much of England is more geographically remote than South Wales.

[yeo valley]

ryanair

if ryanair operate more routes from cwl, the first routes they will operate will be alc agp and keep the tfs route. when that happens it will be bye bye to vueling. be carefull what you wish for,as there will be tears from the ones that are wishing fr will open more routes. you only need to look at other airports that have low pax levels what has gone on.

[caaardiff]

I can't see that being the case. If anything the Airport will want to protect Vueling. The time and money that has been invested in Vueling since they started has paid off. They have gradually expanded at a sufficient rate. Loads are good and prices are usually comparable to EZY and FR. VY want to expand in the UK, it's a foot in the door to Wales and Southwest.
I can't imagine FR are banging down the door at CWL to start routes, but I'm pretty sure the management are being very clever in their approach to keep all Airlines happy. They need to provide competition to BRS without creating competition on their own routes
As for ADP:
- BRS has no direct long haul routes like NCL and Scotland
- BRS has a much better catchment area which is already putting it at a great advantage
- How much more can BRS grow before it goes pop? It's pretty full already from what I hear.
- There's a large amount of Welsh passengers from flying from BRS that actually want to fly from their own Airport. They can't because there's either not enough routes or prices are higher, because the competition at BRS drives prices down.
- The expansion of CWL will create jobs, improve Tourism, help the Welsh economy. The Southwest has excellent employment and a wealthy catchment area. No jobs will be lost at BRS, but expansion and job creation will be slower, which isn't needed as much as in South Wales. It would be an investment in Wales for the Welsh Government rather than giving CWL an unfair boost.

[SWBKCB]

re APD - English airports like Newcastle, Norwich and Newquay can make exactly the same arguments.

[Letsflycwl]

I agree, CWL will definitely want to protect VY after all the investment over the last 5 years, CWL was the 2nd UK Vueling airport after LHR and I'm sure the management are aware of this.

There are plenty of other destinations FR can fly to that are unserved other than already VY destinations, Italy, France, Eastern Europe..they have the choice "should" they choose it

As for the APD devolution that is a matter for the UK and Welsh Governments to deal with .....if it's good enough for one country within the UK then so be it for the others. It's about time there was a change in the wind of fortune for Wales and the West

[caaardiff]

Which is for the Government to decide. The Welsh Government wants to be able to make those decisions.
NCL can't be compared to CWL.
NCL has a large presence of Airlines and a good mix of routes. TOM, EK and UA operating long haul.
NCL Passenger figures - Jul 15 - 543,023 / Aug 15 - 553,953 = 1,096,976
About the same as CWL did in the whole of 2015.

I must point out I'm mainly referring to long haul APD.

BRS has no long haul flights. The leakage of long haul passengers from Wales and the Southwest is to London and BHX/MAN. The on going issues with overcrowding at LHR could be helped by passengers choosing CWL instead of LON. Continue as we are, BRS could just about manage a 757 to US, maybe QR 787.

[Itchin McCrevis]

the Airport will want to protect Vueling

How can you be so sure?, if Ryanair are offering, say, 7 flights per week on a route in place of Vuelings 4 and yields are broadly similar then the airport has a tough call - the extra volume brings operating cost efficiencies and the ability to demand higher rents frrom concessionaires - there is more loyalty to cash than to tail colours in the airport business.

[Wycombe]

Some excitement this evening as the new "Ed Force 1" (aka Air Atlanta B744 TF-AAK) arrives in CWL from SHJ.

Will be in CWL until Friday apparently when she leaves for FLL.

[Morrihell]

TF-AAK

Does that mean that now it's visited CWL once, it'll be starting a new route?

The regular posters must be wetting themselves waiting to see!

MH

[SWBKCB]

APD again - I've no problem with airports being used as a tool of regional/national development, rather it's the "me to" attitude of 'if Scotland and NI have it we have to have it'. Well, if APD reduction is one of the chosen tools of economic development it should apply across the UK, and certainly individual business' (such as NCL and BRS) shouldn't be disadvantaged.

Also, NCL's mix of airlines hasn't just happened - NCL still has a significant local authority ownership and is well aware of it's role in the region and the importance of connectivity.

[crackling jet]

APD - Hasn't our government paid enough

Very good read on 'Bristol 4' -17th Feb, enough said.

[supermarine]

Crackling Jet, while you are twisting the knife into us downtrodden Taffies why not bring up our free prescription charges as well. The three million of us need all the help we can get off the prosperous dwellers of Barrow Gurney and their ilk.

[Letsflycwl]

Originally Posted by supermarine

Crackling Jet, while you are twisting the knife into us downtrodden Taffies why not bring up our free prescription charges as well. The three million of us need all the help we can get off the prosperous dwellers of Barrow Gurney and their ilk.

Well said...couldn't have said it any better

[crackling jet]

not twisting the knife mate, just wondering if the welsh parliament will pay my wages and the rest of the workforce at a thriving airport that would be effected by this unfair idea of a business plan.

No malice intended but I agree with the post and upset that it is even considered, especially as he say's that you can afford to do this because of the grant's paid for out of our taxes, and think of the years that you ran with the Welsh development grants from the Welsh Development agency funding and other EU grants and Bristol had no financial assistance whatsoever, only good leadership and hard work of the staff

swing this situation 180 degrees and what would you say to that ?

I thought that was why all airports were taken out of state control so that they had to compete on a level playing field.

it would be like us playing you at rugby and the league/union forcing you to play blindfolded and you not being able to complain.

In addition it's not only us griping, Newcastle and even Liverpool are in the same situation, so sorry if it upsets you but we have to consider ourselves as well.

Again my apologies if I caused offence, but just pointing out a reasoned response to this plan, oh and by the way i'm not one of the well off people from Barrow Gurney, just a normal person as yourself.