Thomson Airways
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I can understand people paying a relatively large amount of money wanting as much comfort as possible, but when booking the flights your carrier will be specified, and whilst I personally don't think there is a major problem with TOM's seat pitch, why would one expect a Charter carrier to have anything other than relatively limited seat pitch versus mainline sched carriers.
The name of the charter game is the more seats on board an A/C the more holiday revenue can be generated, I am quite sure that your travel agent, even a Thomson one can 'de-package' and book you on a more spacious carrier at twice the cost, failing that sit back enjoy the flight and have a great time.
To be frank, and we can all be guilty of this including myself at times, if we haven't got something to moan about, we would moan about having nothing to moan about
The name of the charter game is the more seats on board an A/C the more holiday revenue can be generated, I am quite sure that your travel agent, even a Thomson one can 'de-package' and book you on a more spacious carrier at twice the cost, failing that sit back enjoy the flight and have a great time.
To be frank, and we can all be guilty of this including myself at times, if we haven't got something to moan about, we would moan about having nothing to moan about
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Is it a bird or a plane ?................. nope its a bird
Looks like even more problems up at EDI with a Canaries flight due in early Sunday morning not coming in until 0730 on Monday with all outgoing passengers stuck on 3 coaches and coached thru to Glasgow because of it.
Cabot.....You really need to get a life!
Looking at your posting history you seem to have a fixation with delayed and cancelled flights! If a plane is unservicable then perhaps it’s worth pondering the fact there is no hard shoulder at 35000ft!!
All you need to remember is that TOM will look after their passengers with hotels and food as required (in addition to always flying customers out on holiday and home again) If only the same could be said for many of the LCC's who happily cancel flights for various reasons and leave their passengers to fend for themselves with no guarantee of a flight for sometimes days.
Looking at your posting history you seem to have a fixation with delayed and cancelled flights! If a plane is unservicable then perhaps it’s worth pondering the fact there is no hard shoulder at 35000ft!!
All you need to remember is that TOM will look after their passengers with hotels and food as required (in addition to always flying customers out on holiday and home again) If only the same could be said for many of the LCC's who happily cancel flights for various reasons and leave their passengers to fend for themselves with no guarantee of a flight for sometimes days.
Join Date: May 2011
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Just to add my flight was scheduled and not a charter flight per Thomson/First Choice. But I do understand and I am someone who even in 'current times' is prepared to pay more for a good service, comfort and guarantee. But I just felt on the outbound TOM 737 the leg room was abysmal and the 757 coming back was better but had already paid for the extra leg room seats.
Anyway, just my gripe. I think more airlines need to appreciate that many people still would be prepared to pay a bit more for the three things I said above and that's the reason I avoid loco's.
Anyway, just my gripe. I think more airlines need to appreciate that many people still would be prepared to pay a bit more for the three things I said above and that's the reason I avoid loco's.
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I think the problem there is, that there are more people who just want cheap flights than are prepared to pay the extra for added comfort, well short haul anyway. That's why even the likes of BA and co have had to lower standards on short haul in order to compete price wise.
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Oh I understand and appreciate that swing. Id welcome a small airline prepared to serve EU destinations that does keep the quality experience and at that little bit more but it'd probably struggle. Anyway, enough has been said.
At the end of this, I'd still look elsewhere before TOM considering i could have flown loco for a similar experience.
At the end of this, I'd still look elsewhere before TOM considering i could have flown loco for a similar experience.
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The mistake is expecting something different from TOM/TCX/MON and the LOCO's, in this day and age there is very little difference if any, and hasn't been for quite some time now.
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The mistake is expecting something different from TOM/TCX/MON and the LOCO's, in this day and age there is very little difference if any, and hasn't been for quite some time now.
Join Date: Mar 2011
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I tend to disagree, some of the Low-cost airlines offer optional pre-bookable extra legroom seats at a reasonable supplement if extra comfort is a requirement. The charter airlines have fallen behind some loco airlines and that is a concern.
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Cazza fly
You are wrong in your assumptions. I am very much up to date with package holiday costs and flight only seats.
Yes you are correct, but these are Emergency Exit seats only and NOT BOOKABLE if you are elderly or frail, have any medical problem, disabled, obese or under 14 etc. It is not stated what qualifications the cabin crew will have in making a decision to refuse seating for most of these conditions.
Last year I took a Thomson Platinum holiday which was excellent in every respect. The holiday included free selection of standard seating. This year there is a charge of £15 per person for the same facility and £50 per person for Extra Legroom seats which of course is not an option at all if a cabin crew member can refuse seating on the basis of being elderly or frail without definition.
As I say, some low-cost airlines have genuine extra legroom seating that is available to any passenger at a supplement, not just flogging off the seats that just happen to be adjacent to an emergency exit.
The charter airlines are just as good as low-cost airlines in the choice of chargeable extra's but not as good as some when it comes to seating comfort and choice.
During this booking process customers (along with those on flight only) will be given the option to pre-book extra space seats (very limited availability as they are on all airlines
Last year I took a Thomson Platinum holiday which was excellent in every respect. The holiday included free selection of standard seating. This year there is a charge of £15 per person for the same facility and £50 per person for Extra Legroom seats which of course is not an option at all if a cabin crew member can refuse seating on the basis of being elderly or frail without definition.
As I say, some low-cost airlines have genuine extra legroom seating that is available to any passenger at a supplement, not just flogging off the seats that just happen to be adjacent to an emergency exit.
The charter airlines are just as good as low-cost airlines in the choice of chargeable extra's but not as good as some when it comes to seating comfort and choice.
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Yes you are correct, but these are Emergency Exit seats only and NOT BOOKABLE if you are elderly or frail, have any medical problem, disabled, obese or under 14 etc. It is not stated what qualifications the cabin crew will have in making a decision to refuse seating for most of these conditions.
They have operated in similar ways for over 30 years now beleive it or not so they cant be doing all that wrong.As for the restrcitions in exit rows you have to be fully fit and abled-bodied and I suppose everyones perceptionof this will be different. However there is a minimum requirement list the ground agents and cabin crew will have to stick to and be able to ask questions on if they are to be seated in these seats. These rules are not all made up by the airline and are part of the CAA and EU-OPS requirements which im sure you will understand.
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The charters are not going to change any time soon!!! They have operated in similar ways for over 30 years now beleive it or not so they cant be doing all that wrong.
On the subject of emergency exit seating, if there is a list of minimum requirements as a guide for ground staff and cabin crew, would it not be better to clearly state these requirements at the booking process ?
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TSR2,
A) Charter must be dying a very slow death indeed, because load factors are up again year on year as is bedbank uptake, therefore as we speak Charter is growing.
B) The booking process states that one has to be fully fit and bodily abled, it would be foolish to get into long lists and the inevitable grey areas and judgement calls at that point. You as an individual know whether you or a traveling companion are fully fit and bodily abled, you may however not know if that particular condition will preclude you. At this point it would be sensible to ask the advice of the Airline and or seek clarification from the Civil Aviation Authority if you are not convinced by the answers given to you and wish to seek further advice from the regulatory authority.
Initiative is allowed and actually tends to solve these problems if there is a history of communication involved, one short phone call or email and problem solved.
A) Charter must be dying a very slow death indeed, because load factors are up again year on year as is bedbank uptake, therefore as we speak Charter is growing.
B) The booking process states that one has to be fully fit and bodily abled, it would be foolish to get into long lists and the inevitable grey areas and judgement calls at that point. You as an individual know whether you or a traveling companion are fully fit and bodily abled, you may however not know if that particular condition will preclude you. At this point it would be sensible to ask the advice of the Airline and or seek clarification from the Civil Aviation Authority if you are not convinced by the answers given to you and wish to seek further advice from the regulatory authority.
Initiative is allowed and actually tends to solve these problems if there is a history of communication involved, one short phone call or email and problem solved.
And maybe therein lies part of the problem. Charter unfortunately is dying a slow death.
Charter is certainly not dying and continues to provide an important service (particularly from the regional airports)......flights to places like CFU from NWI and EXT are good examples
The Ash crisis last April highlighted well how some of the tour operators looked after their customers and Thomson in particular was highly praised. Some folks don't want to risk their valued holiday and are now appreciating the notable benefits of booking with an established and experienced tour operator.
The seating arrangements on charter flights will never please everyone but at least you are not forced to endure the demeaning scrum that is the start of every RYR and EZY flight (when even the purchase of speedy boarding can be worthless when coaches are used for boarding!)
Charter is certainly not dying and continues to provide an important service (particularly from the regional airports)......flights to places like CFU from NWI and EXT are good examples
The Ash crisis last April highlighted well how some of the tour operators looked after their customers and Thomson in particular was highly praised. Some folks don't want to risk their valued holiday and are now appreciating the notable benefits of booking with an established and experienced tour operator.
The seating arrangements on charter flights will never please everyone but at least you are not forced to endure the demeaning scrum that is the start of every RYR and EZY flight (when even the purchase of speedy boarding can be worthless when coaches are used for boarding!)
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Charter must be dying a very slow death indeed, because load factors are up again year on year as is bedbank uptake, therefore as we speak Charter is growing.
I remember the stats for MAN about 10 years ago where charter pax accounted for around 65% of total annual pax. In 2010 this figure was down to 42%. So I believe the percentage of pax choosing charter is in decline but I do not have the figures for the split of total pax numbers so I stand to be corrected.
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In all fairness TSR2 as like all these things that involve stats, there are different ways to spin them and I should think that there would probably be certain trend areas that may well back up at least some of what you are saying.
I think the key though is something that boeing eng mentioned, since the collapse of certain Airlines and Tour Ops, many customers who were "self packaging" and as a result were often flying on a LOCO as part of their quest for cheaper cost suddenly felt a little exposed and as a result have decided to go back to a large Tour Op such as TUI, Tommy Cook and Monarch in order to feel more protected, this I think has played a big part in the resurgent "Old Fashioned" package holiday, and therefore as a result has increased load factors on the Airlines owned by those Travel giants over the past couple of years.
But, as we know things can change quickly and unpredictably which is what makes this industry as intriguing as it is
I think the key though is something that boeing eng mentioned, since the collapse of certain Airlines and Tour Ops, many customers who were "self packaging" and as a result were often flying on a LOCO as part of their quest for cheaper cost suddenly felt a little exposed and as a result have decided to go back to a large Tour Op such as TUI, Tommy Cook and Monarch in order to feel more protected, this I think has played a big part in the resurgent "Old Fashioned" package holiday, and therefore as a result has increased load factors on the Airlines owned by those Travel giants over the past couple of years.
But, as we know things can change quickly and unpredictably which is what makes this industry as intriguing as it is
Load factor means nothing at all. It is all to do with yield and for the charter companies the yield is rock bottom and most are expected to make losses. They may have sold every single holiday available but if they are only charging £1 for it then they will make a loss. I did read a article in the business press recently I believe it was the TUI group who said in the future to save costs they may get shot of a few airlines as they are heavy loss making and buy seats on scheduled carriers.
Stone Cold.......I don't suppose the fact that you may have an interest in EZY has anything to do with your previous comments?
The TUI group made an underlying operating profit of £447million last year (up 11% on the previous year) Of course trading conditions are tough (but they are tough for all players......including the LCC's) Don't underestimate some of the Tour Operators. Peter Long at TUI and Manny Fontenla-Novoa at Thomas Cook know the market inside-out and are developing strategies to ensure the long-term viability of their businesses. For example, First Choice (part of TUI) is now all-inclusive. This is proving a great hit with families who can budget the total cost of their holidays instead of having to worry about the poor Euro exchange rate!
The TUI group made an underlying operating profit of £447million last year (up 11% on the previous year) Of course trading conditions are tough (but they are tough for all players......including the LCC's) Don't underestimate some of the Tour Operators. Peter Long at TUI and Manny Fontenla-Novoa at Thomas Cook know the market inside-out and are developing strategies to ensure the long-term viability of their businesses. For example, First Choice (part of TUI) is now all-inclusive. This is proving a great hit with families who can budget the total cost of their holidays instead of having to worry about the poor Euro exchange rate!
Hmmm at EZY I'm not worried about the company making profits and surviving so it really doesn't make any difference to me what happens to TUI as the 2 are not in direct competition with each other, naturally I wouldn't want to see any of these companies go bust or people loose their jobs and I don't see the likes of TUI or Thomas Cook going bust. But I can see the travel groups starting to use schedule airlines to help reduce costs (this was just based on a comment in the financial press as a option in future). TUI group may be doing ok overseas but they are all saying including Thomas Cook that the U.K. market for package holidays is shrinking.
I have read including here that some of travel groups will be reducing the size of their fleets.
There will always be a market for the package holiday but it is not one that will grow at least not in the U.K.
I have read including here that some of travel groups will be reducing the size of their fleets.
There will always be a market for the package holiday but it is not one that will grow at least not in the U.K.
TUI already use scheduled (not LCC!) carriers for certain holiday packages....particulary long haul (and has done so for ages!)
The only group airline TUI has been engaged in selling is Jet4You in Morocco (still profitable from last years figures!)
Regarding fleet size....Don't rule anything out! One of the benefits of a large multi-country operation is that fleets can be moved around to adjust for demand. Also, the 787 will provide TUI with an impressive tool which will change the face of long-haul package flying.
) carriers for certain holiday packages....particulary long haul (and has done so for ages!) The only group airline TUI has been engaged in selling is Jet4You in Morocco (still profitable from last years figures!
)Regarding fleet size....Don't rule anything out! One of the benefits of a large multi-country operation is that fleets can be moved around to adjust for demand. Also, the 787 will provide TUI with an impressive tool which will change the face of long-haul package flying.