Chaos at Terminal 5
We all know LHR is a ****hole,period , and the BAA go out of their way to keep it that way. For example,walking down the finger to an aircraft at T4 there is usually a pile of rubbish strewn along the jetty as the swine at BAA dont bother to clean the bloody things. Glad to see they are keeping up the same appearance at T5.
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frangatang
yes but who puts the rubbish there in the first place. I think you will find its BA cabin crew abd BA's own contracted cleaners because they cant be bothered to walk 50 feet and put them in the bins that are supplied by BAA on the ramp.
why should BAA clear up after BA's mess ???????
Answer that one and think about your posting before you go into one.
yes but who puts the rubbish there in the first place. I think you will find its BA cabin crew abd BA's own contracted cleaners because they cant be bothered to walk 50 feet and put them in the bins that are supplied by BAA on the ramp.
why should BAA clear up after BA's mess ???????
Answer that one and think about your posting before you go into one.
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I think you'll find BAs cabin crew don't dump the rubbish as they don't clean the aircraft. Nor do the cleaners dump the rubbish as that comes off in sacks and goes down the engineering steps or rear steps to be disposed of at ground level, not on the jetty. I think frangatang refers to the general filth of discarded newspapers, food, boarding cards and all the other detritus Joe Pax discards. But thanks for the slating anyway.
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frangatang
BAA - Outsource the cleaning to another company - It would appear that nobody actually checks if that other company gets round to carrying out such a task.
At LGW - I've noticed that various airlines & their cleaning companies regularly dump all sorts of rubbish on the Jet-ways. It is often unidentifiable; where such detritus has originated, and consequently is left until someone reports it. BAA - say contact the airline concerned - but, without CID and forensic investigation - Nobody knows anything.
Perhaps, they should return the skips to every stand; which were withdrawn some years ago!
BAA - as the airport operator/owner should not abrogate responsibility for the cleanliness of all areas and should check several times a day that all is well. - However, we're talking about BAA here. Enough said!
BAA - Outsource the cleaning to another company - It would appear that nobody actually checks if that other company gets round to carrying out such a task.
At LGW - I've noticed that various airlines & their cleaning companies regularly dump all sorts of rubbish on the Jet-ways. It is often unidentifiable; where such detritus has originated, and consequently is left until someone reports it. BAA - say contact the airline concerned - but, without CID and forensic investigation - Nobody knows anything.
Perhaps, they should return the skips to every stand; which were withdrawn some years ago!
BAA - as the airport operator/owner should not abrogate responsibility for the cleanliness of all areas and should check several times a day that all is well. - However, we're talking about BAA here. Enough said!
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Rubbish thread
Hand solo, Frangatang et al,
The new line is rubbish.... Lets get back on theme. It is not BAA's fault, the chaos rests most firmly with out own lot. We are the instigators of our own making.
This MBA line, those qualified sorts, not listening to direct staff. My opinion is that they actually, genuinely think they are above and better, rather than on the same team pulling the same way.
I have respect for a handful of managers in BA engineering, they are the ones I know best. The rest and their countless gaffes and
ups are just brushed aside. They appear amazed that the direct staff are never enamoured when they arrive with a new plan, project, threat!
Disturbingly I don;t think there is an answer to the problem, you will find most staff have gone past carig, they just turn up and clock the 8hrs as easy as poss. Things used to be different, staff used to arrive and put in 120%, pull out the stops when need be. With your staff on board and contributing you can do anything, indeed whatever the issue was on thursday it could have been overcome if you had staff with a PMA.
The new line is rubbish.... Lets get back on theme. It is not BAA's fault, the chaos rests most firmly with out own lot. We are the instigators of our own making.
This MBA line, those qualified sorts, not listening to direct staff. My opinion is that they actually, genuinely think they are above and better, rather than on the same team pulling the same way.
I have respect for a handful of managers in BA engineering, they are the ones I know best. The rest and their countless gaffes and
ups are just brushed aside. They appear amazed that the direct staff are never enamoured when they arrive with a new plan, project, threat!Disturbingly I don;t think there is an answer to the problem, you will find most staff have gone past carig, they just turn up and clock the 8hrs as easy as poss. Things used to be different, staff used to arrive and put in 120%, pull out the stops when need be. With your staff on board and contributing you can do anything, indeed whatever the issue was on thursday it could have been overcome if you had staff with a PMA.
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BA volunteers
I have been criticised for posting alot on this subject, I only visited PPRUNE to voice my general support for our Pilot community at BA. I was suitably disgusted at the way BA 'management' was conducting matters.
Then this sh1t happened, on the former site of a sh1t farm. I admit I have spent much time, for free on this site. Despite the lack of financial renumeration I feel it is a valuable use of my time.
Getting to the point - I cannot for the life of me understand where MR Willie and Co managed to obtain 400 volunteers? And what does this volunteering entail? (is there some sort of payment for this, some reward?) Are these people, giving their time for free? Whilst it may appear to be the case, we must remember BA is not a charity.
Another thing, we hear BA quoting that there is some 15,000 bags loose at Heathrow. We also hear that we have some 400 of Willies Helpers. doing some rudamentry mathematics ( I learned it on me matamatics course when a apprentice yoof) I work out these happy helpers just have to move less than 40 bags each.
Supposing they do an 8 hr shift that breaks down to just 5 bags an hour. Not a tremedous effort you might expect, surely the mountain of bags will have been whittled to nothing today.
However we all know that none of this is the case, that this is just more of BA propoganda yarns. THere are few if any 'helpers', just those morons that have been involved in planning for this fiasco and feel guilty as sin for all the skiving they have been doing for the last few years. Can you imagine these office wallowers moving bags? Remember they are the brains of the bunch not the brawn, they are trained to direct not do.
Willie, if you want my help the answer is no, this is your sh1t, you sort it out. Oh and then you can do us all a favour and resign.
BAeng1
Then this sh1t happened, on the former site of a sh1t farm. I admit I have spent much time, for free on this site. Despite the lack of financial renumeration I feel it is a valuable use of my time.
Getting to the point - I cannot for the life of me understand where MR Willie and Co managed to obtain 400 volunteers? And what does this volunteering entail? (is there some sort of payment for this, some reward?) Are these people, giving their time for free? Whilst it may appear to be the case, we must remember BA is not a charity.
Another thing, we hear BA quoting that there is some 15,000 bags loose at Heathrow. We also hear that we have some 400 of Willies Helpers. doing some rudamentry mathematics ( I learned it on me matamatics course when a apprentice yoof) I work out these happy helpers just have to move less than 40 bags each.
Supposing they do an 8 hr shift that breaks down to just 5 bags an hour. Not a tremedous effort you might expect, surely the mountain of bags will have been whittled to nothing today.
However we all know that none of this is the case, that this is just more of BA propoganda yarns. THere are few if any 'helpers', just those morons that have been involved in planning for this fiasco and feel guilty as sin for all the skiving they have been doing for the last few years. Can you imagine these office wallowers moving bags? Remember they are the brains of the bunch not the brawn, they are trained to direct not do.
Willie, if you want my help the answer is no, this is your sh1t, you sort it out. Oh and then you can do us all a favour and resign.
BAeng1
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Openskies
Saw this, the opening line on the www.flyopenskie.com website,
'We’re a new airline being born from the innovative minds of British Airways.'
This being the same minds that planned the T5 move, help!
'We’re a new airline being born from the innovative minds of British Airways.'
This being the same minds that planned the T5 move, help!
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back quickly to the rubbish debate, its all down to GREED, BAA will only use the cheapest cleaners who then have to pay br all to the staff who are disinterested at best. What they should do is get the best value quote. IIRC some years ago a firm started paying their workers more to clean at the airports and the standard improved considerably, guess what happened, yep they lost the contract due to the cost.
Consistently BAA airports are dirty, ill kept and overcrowded. Outsourcing does not absolve the company.
r all to the staff who are disinterested at best. What they should do is get the best value quote. IIRC some years ago a firm started paying their workers more to clean at the airports and the standard improved considerably, guess what happened, yep they lost the contract due to the cost.Consistently BAA airports are dirty, ill kept and overcrowded. Outsourcing does not absolve the company.
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Originally Posted by BAEngineering
Another thing, we hear BA quoting that there is some 15,000 bags loose at Heathrow. We also hear that we have some 400 of Willies Helpers. doing some rudamentry mathematics ( I learned it on me matamatics course when a apprentice yoof) I work out these happy helpers just have to move less than 40 bags each.
Also, presumably dealling with the 15,000 stuck bags is more than just carrying them from A to B - I imagine it entails finding the passenger's details, calling them up, finding out where they are now, working out how to get the bag back to them, via plane, train or automobile, whatever etc. I can well imagine it being difficult to process even 5 of them an hour if the customer is at the other end of the country or the planet by now.
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manx crab
we are talking rubbish in the jetties which is all airline "crxp" from flights.
THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AIRLINE. FULL STOP.
Nxt minute you will be saying it should be the BAA who clean the aircraft
we are talking rubbish in the jetties which is all airline "crxp" from flights.
THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AIRLINE. FULL STOP.
Nxt minute you will be saying it should be the BAA who clean the aircraft
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and we all want to fly to Thiefrow
As someone mentioned, there is this lemming like rush by all the US Carriers to abandon poor old Gatwick to the disaster which is Thiefrow!!
If I have a choice [which I certainly hunt for] it will always be Gatters and whatever carrier is there to get to my destination.
Bring back Lakers / Danned-Air!! / Air Europa / Braniff and all those others, oops Richard that includes you.. forget the silly buggers at the West End of London
If I have a choice [which I certainly hunt for] it will always be Gatters and whatever carrier is there to get to my destination.
Bring back Lakers / Danned-Air!! / Air Europa / Braniff and all those others, oops Richard that includes you.. forget the silly buggers at the West End of London
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Naking people feel happy
Derekvader they would be happy if they could just fly with their bags.. simple really. How on earth are Willies helpers going to make them feel happy?> AS for showing people around, what the heck, why do they need that now, surely if it was needed now it was needed before, why did someone not spot this during the testing phase.
Finally are these people PAID volunteers> I need to know, I might volunteer my own services for extra money. I'd make passengers happy by telling them what a bunch of Willie wonkeroids I work for.
Make them happy, i have never heard such trite
Finally are these people PAID volunteers> I need to know, I might volunteer my own services for extra money. I'd make passengers happy by telling them what a bunch of Willie wonkeroids I work for.
Make them happy, i have never heard such trite
Paxing All Over The World
BAengineering
Once again, you state what I see at many other companies. As long as things are trundling along as normal - then the mgmt and shareholders think that everything is dandy.
Then there is, a planned big event or a fire at the data centre or some other out-of-the-blue event and the staff turn to the mgmt and find what they always knew they would find - a vacuum. The warning signs have been cropping up for years and BAA is in EXACTLY the same situation.
The Independent on Sunday:
So who's to blame?
Staff arrival BAA failed to provide enough parking for employees, and with only one security checkpoint open, this led to an early bottleneck
Baggage conveyors Vanderlande Industries, contracted by BAA, provided sophisticated state-of-the-art equipment. One belt failed completely
Baggage handling Alstec's system, BAA subcontractors, made staff process bags for cancelled flights and neglect pile-up elsewhere
Training BA accused of failing to prepare staff
Customer relations BA misinformed customers on compensation, and refused to provide hotel rooms for delayed passengers.
Disturbingly I don't think there is an answer to the problem, you will find most staff have gone past caring, they just turn up and clock the 8hrs as easy as poss. Things used to be different ...
Then there is, a planned big event or a fire at the data centre or some other out-of-the-blue event and the staff turn to the mgmt and find what they always knew they would find - a vacuum. The warning signs have been cropping up for years and BAA is in EXACTLY the same situation.
The Independent on Sunday:
So who's to blame?
Staff arrival BAA failed to provide enough parking for employees, and with only one security checkpoint open, this led to an early bottleneck
Baggage conveyors Vanderlande Industries, contracted by BAA, provided sophisticated state-of-the-art equipment. One belt failed completely
Baggage handling Alstec's system, BAA subcontractors, made staff process bags for cancelled flights and neglect pile-up elsewhere
Training BA accused of failing to prepare staff
Customer relations BA misinformed customers on compensation, and refused to provide hotel rooms for delayed passengers.
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Baggage Belts
Oh and BA has been briefing all the outstations weeks ago NOT to use loose-load in pit 5 for baggage, it ALL had to be containeised!! Pray tell me where is the [lack] of human involement in handling?
Also the logic in holding an aircraft past departure time to load strollers and all that gate rubbish into a can before you can close up? Or are we to leave it all behind??
Shame we lost all the airline trained personnel in Management
Also the logic in holding an aircraft past departure time to load strollers and all that gate rubbish into a can before you can close up? Or are we to leave it all behind??
Shame we lost all the airline trained personnel in Management
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err no southern duel,
Presumably BAA charge airlines to use the facilities and will provide a means of disposal. The paying public don't give a rats a who's rubbish it is they want, expect and should have it cleaned away, The amount of crap left on aircraft by SLF amazes me, usually the further back you go the cleaner it is
A simple solution would be to ban airlines from Heathrow if they dump rubbish in the jetties but BAA are far too greedy to do that and it does not excuse the fact that the rest of the airport is filthy.
Presumably BAA charge airlines to use the facilities and will provide a means of disposal. The paying public don't give a rats a
who's rubbish it is they want, expect and should have it cleaned away, The amount of crap left on aircraft by SLF amazes me, usually the further back you go the cleaner it isA simple solution would be to ban airlines from Heathrow if they dump rubbish in the jetties but BAA are far too greedy to do that and it does not excuse the fact that the rest of the airport is filthy.
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Originally Posted by southern duel
we are talking rubbish in the jetties which is all airline "crxp" from flights.
THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AIRLINE. FULL STOP.
THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AIRLINE. FULL STOP.
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I think there were interesting moments about the responsiveness and customer focus of BAA management revealed at the Transport Committee "Future of BAA" hearings. Particularly relevant were the thoughts that the top of BAA seemed unaware of the problems of airline and terminal staff getting through security to work airside:
http://www.publications.parliament.u...19/7112801.htm
Q212 Clive Efford: How do you respond to the charge that you have not listened to the industry in terms of the facilities you provide at airports and that where you have agreed changes or improvements at airports with the airlines those changes have not been implemented?
Mr Nelson: I think the opening of Terminal 5 on 27 March on time will represent the capability of this business both in its ambition to deliver construction of the highest world-class quality, and I also recognise that we have a difficult job meeting, for example in Heathrow, the competing demands for infrastructure of 94 airlines, but I am pleased to say that going forward for the next five years we have largely come to an agreement on a transformation plan for Heathrow which amounts to some 3.6 billion across those airlines. So my sense is that actually we are meeting the demands as put to us by airlines.
Q239 Mr Wilshire: I think I have made my point. Yes, I do have some questions, but I think it is important to get the record straight. Could I just start with the situation of Terminal 5 coming on-line. Is there not a tendency for all the shortcomings, irrespective of who is responsible for them, to say, "It will all be alright on the night when Terminal 5 opens"? Is there not a danger of raising expectations that that might be a solution for more things than it will be?
Mr Nelson: I think the right way to consider Terminal 5 is step one. We are as clear as anybody that Heathrow needs to be transformed. Terminal 5 at a stroke will reduce the numbers of passengers going through Terminal 1 by about 50%, the numbers of passengers going through Terminal 4 by about 75%, and that will level out to 50, and the numbers of passengers going from Terminal 2 by about 15%. That will provide from April very considerable relief to passengers in physical terms. It needs also to be understood that Terminal 3 will actually get busier; it will go up in passenger terms by about 10%, which I think plays to the point that it is not just Terminal 5, it is the development of the whole campus in physical terms, and that is what our plans are in front of the Regulator. It is the development of the whole campus that needs to be delivered.
Q240 Mr Wilshire: Rather a lot of people are aware of the problems at Heathrow. Which of those problems do you consider are your responsibility and which are the problems you consider are the responsibilities of somebody else?
Mr Nelson: Before I go into this, it is important to say that I see no upside from the blame game and I personally have steered well clear of the media. However, it does need to be articulated that BAA controls, let us call it two of the six major factors in customer satisfaction. We control central security and we control the retail and the catering. We do not control check-in. We provide the desk, but we do not control the manning of the check-in.
Q241 Chairman: However, Mr Nelson, most of the evidence we have got has been about exactly those bits which you control.
Mr Nelson: With respect, Chairman, there is enough evidence also to suggest, both anecdotally and on websites, that check-in queues have been considerable as well.
Q242 Chairman: So we are not in the blame game, we are just saying the others are as bad as us?
Mr Nelson: I accept that point, but immigration is Home Office and baggage reclaim—the time it takes for the bag to be transported from the plan onto the reclaim belt is under the control of the airlines handling agents. We are responsible for the kit. Finally, punctuality, which with an airport as full as Heathrow can be anything from weather-related to schedule-related issues.
Q250 Mrs Ellman: American Airlines gave us evidence this afternoon about problems experienced by their staff getting through controls at the airports. Is that a problem you are already aware of?
Mr Nelson: I am aware that on occasion we do have queues going through the staff checkpoint. It is not just airlines, it will be our own staff as well and any other people working air-side. Again, that is not a problem we want to take lightly and we must make sure that is improved.
Q252 Chairman: Mr Nelson, we were told that crew have been held up as long as an hour. If you hold up an aircraft crew, the aircraft cannot take off on time, it looses its slots and it is in considerable difficulty. Is that true, and are you aware of it? If you are aware of it, how often does it happen?
Mr Nelson: I will check the statistics and get back to you.
Q253 Chairman: Mr Nelson, surely in the talks you have had with the airlines they cannot have been silent on this matter. Are you aware of any of the crews having difficulty getting through security and being delayed with an effect upon their flight time?
Mr Nelson: Chairman, I was certainly aware of the intensity of the problem in and around 10 August and beyond. I have not been made aware of this recently and the issues we tend to talk about in regular strategic dialogue with airlines is around control posts and less around the staff security.
http://www.publications.parliament.u...19/7112801.htm
Q212 Clive Efford: How do you respond to the charge that you have not listened to the industry in terms of the facilities you provide at airports and that where you have agreed changes or improvements at airports with the airlines those changes have not been implemented?
Mr Nelson: I think the opening of Terminal 5 on 27 March on time will represent the capability of this business both in its ambition to deliver construction of the highest world-class quality, and I also recognise that we have a difficult job meeting, for example in Heathrow, the competing demands for infrastructure of 94 airlines, but I am pleased to say that going forward for the next five years we have largely come to an agreement on a transformation plan for Heathrow which amounts to some 3.6 billion across those airlines. So my sense is that actually we are meeting the demands as put to us by airlines.
Q239 Mr Wilshire: I think I have made my point. Yes, I do have some questions, but I think it is important to get the record straight. Could I just start with the situation of Terminal 5 coming on-line. Is there not a tendency for all the shortcomings, irrespective of who is responsible for them, to say, "It will all be alright on the night when Terminal 5 opens"? Is there not a danger of raising expectations that that might be a solution for more things than it will be?
Mr Nelson: I think the right way to consider Terminal 5 is step one. We are as clear as anybody that Heathrow needs to be transformed. Terminal 5 at a stroke will reduce the numbers of passengers going through Terminal 1 by about 50%, the numbers of passengers going through Terminal 4 by about 75%, and that will level out to 50, and the numbers of passengers going from Terminal 2 by about 15%. That will provide from April very considerable relief to passengers in physical terms. It needs also to be understood that Terminal 3 will actually get busier; it will go up in passenger terms by about 10%, which I think plays to the point that it is not just Terminal 5, it is the development of the whole campus in physical terms, and that is what our plans are in front of the Regulator. It is the development of the whole campus that needs to be delivered.
Q240 Mr Wilshire: Rather a lot of people are aware of the problems at Heathrow. Which of those problems do you consider are your responsibility and which are the problems you consider are the responsibilities of somebody else?
Mr Nelson: Before I go into this, it is important to say that I see no upside from the blame game and I personally have steered well clear of the media. However, it does need to be articulated that BAA controls, let us call it two of the six major factors in customer satisfaction. We control central security and we control the retail and the catering. We do not control check-in. We provide the desk, but we do not control the manning of the check-in.
Q241 Chairman: However, Mr Nelson, most of the evidence we have got has been about exactly those bits which you control.
Mr Nelson: With respect, Chairman, there is enough evidence also to suggest, both anecdotally and on websites, that check-in queues have been considerable as well.
Q242 Chairman: So we are not in the blame game, we are just saying the others are as bad as us?
Mr Nelson: I accept that point, but immigration is Home Office and baggage reclaim—the time it takes for the bag to be transported from the plan onto the reclaim belt is under the control of the airlines handling agents. We are responsible for the kit. Finally, punctuality, which with an airport as full as Heathrow can be anything from weather-related to schedule-related issues.
Q250 Mrs Ellman: American Airlines gave us evidence this afternoon about problems experienced by their staff getting through controls at the airports. Is that a problem you are already aware of?
Mr Nelson: I am aware that on occasion we do have queues going through the staff checkpoint. It is not just airlines, it will be our own staff as well and any other people working air-side. Again, that is not a problem we want to take lightly and we must make sure that is improved.
Q252 Chairman: Mr Nelson, we were told that crew have been held up as long as an hour. If you hold up an aircraft crew, the aircraft cannot take off on time, it looses its slots and it is in considerable difficulty. Is that true, and are you aware of it? If you are aware of it, how often does it happen?
Mr Nelson: I will check the statistics and get back to you.
Q253 Chairman: Mr Nelson, surely in the talks you have had with the airlines they cannot have been silent on this matter. Are you aware of any of the crews having difficulty getting through security and being delayed with an effect upon their flight time?
Mr Nelson: Chairman, I was certainly aware of the intensity of the problem in and around 10 August and beyond. I have not been made aware of this recently and the issues we tend to talk about in regular strategic dialogue with airlines is around control posts and less around the staff security.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Just a few questions:
1. Who in their right mind would now book shorthaul with BA? At the first sign of any trouble - catering, fog, general incompetance - the first thing that gets canned is the shorthaul, to protect the longhaul (profits).
2. I'm a bit older,and wiser, than I used to be and I cannot believe that anyone would volunteer to help dig these moronic, bonus chasing "managers" out of the $hit. I know it's not nice for the pax but do these volunteers, magnanimous as they are, think the to$$ers at the top will recognise the true worth of their efforts?
3. A previous poster said stop complaining about Kirkwood, it won't change anything (or words to that effect). DO NOT STOP. THIS GUY DESERVES TO BE HOUNDED OUT OF OFFICE SOLEY ON HIS "STATEMENT PERFORMANCE". These clowns cannot continually be allowed to "get away with it" and collect massive bonuses - it's vile. (see todays Sunday Times re the Northern Rock CEO Why do we put up with it?
This country is doomed.
A4
1. Who in their right mind would now book shorthaul with BA? At the first sign of any trouble - catering, fog, general incompetance - the first thing that gets canned is the shorthaul, to protect the longhaul (profits).
2. I'm a bit older,and wiser, than I used to be and I cannot believe that anyone would volunteer to help dig these moronic, bonus chasing "managers" out of the $hit. I know it's not nice for the pax but do these volunteers, magnanimous as they are, think the to$$ers at the top will recognise the true worth of their efforts?
3. A previous poster said stop complaining about Kirkwood, it won't change anything (or words to that effect). DO NOT STOP. THIS GUY DESERVES TO BE HOUNDED OUT OF OFFICE SOLEY ON HIS "STATEMENT PERFORMANCE". These clowns cannot continually be allowed to "get away with it" and collect massive bonuses - it's vile. (see todays Sunday Times re the Northern Rock CEO
Why do we put up with it?This country is doomed.
A4
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Aren't a lot of the "volunteers" supposedly helping out upstairs in check-in etc making people feel "happy" (and helping showing people where to go
While I'm on a rant, can't we get away from this 'Lions led by Donkeys' image of BA staff and their management? Donkeys led by asses might be nearer the truth. Lets fact it, BA ramp workers, badly treated as they were, were still responsible for their own utter indifference to the job in hand, and their strict demarkation. The most common sight on arrival was a veritable army of bods lolling about while the steps stayed resolutely where they were parked awaiting the arrival of the one bloke ‘authorised’ to move them… or whatever other bit of equipment was needed. There were supposed to be new contracts for T5 which were going to introduce a new spirit of cooperation, what happened to them? Leaving it all until T5 day 1 would in itself be the height of stupidity, just one more change to have to accommodate on the big day, not to mention a lot of training to multiskill the guys (again there have been hints of that happening in the travellers tales).
I can't say I'm surprised it all went belly up, just very, very disappointed.
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1) A lot of shorthaul gets cancelled, but generally more goes.
2) Most of the volunteers are on healthy overtime rates. Nobody in their right mind would do it for nothing.
3) Right on! With you all the way on that one.
2) Most of the volunteers are on healthy overtime rates. Nobody in their right mind would do it for nothing.
3) Right on! With you all the way on that one.