Chaos at Terminal 5
Back in the 90s I remarked to an eng manager that 'just-in-time' was not a great philosophy to apply to spares holdings.
They achieved the once and for all advantage of reducing spares holdings and then, for instance, B744 at LHR requires spare and it has to come from LGW at short notice.
Result? Delay!
Too many short term prima donnas trying to make a name for themselves.
They achieved the once and for all advantage of reducing spares holdings and then, for instance, B744 at LHR requires spare and it has to come from LGW at short notice.
Result? Delay!
Too many short term prima donnas trying to make a name for themselves.
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THere is already a thread set up for this discussion, please feel free to use it. It's the poular one with in excess of 70,000 views and 33 pages of posts.
Oh, your so wrong about the 90% BAA's fault, do you work for BA at waterside? BAA provided a building, working as they state. Whilst not completely in the clear they are no way virtually wholly responsible for 'Terminal Thursday'.
Try 100% BA's fault, they shouldn't of moved if it wasn;t ready.
I find it so amusing now the BBC breakfast clip last week the day of the Queen opening T5. Head of BAA and BA CEO shaking hands and beaming into each others eyes! Dermot O'Leary saying 'I bet they'll be using that shot many times'. How right he has become.
BAA were happy to hand over as it was substantally ready, Willie Walsh was happy to accept. THerefore as the man said himself, he is 100% responsible...
Oh, your so wrong about the 90% BAA's fault, do you work for BA at waterside? BAA provided a building, working as they state. Whilst not completely in the clear they are no way virtually wholly responsible for 'Terminal Thursday'.
Try 100% BA's fault, they shouldn't of moved if it wasn;t ready.
I find it so amusing now the BBC breakfast clip last week the day of the Queen opening T5. Head of BAA and BA CEO shaking hands and beaming into each others eyes! Dermot O'Leary saying 'I bet they'll be using that shot many times'. How right he has become.
BAA were happy to hand over as it was substantally ready, Willie Walsh was happy to accept. THerefore as the man said himself, he is 100% responsible...
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BA currently operates a combination of “just-in-time”, [..] management philosophies. Unfortunately the rest of the world got rid of these flawed US techniques of 10 years ago.
At a time like this you plan for the worst case, over train (if that’s possible) and flood the place with staff, trainers, management, engineers, IT people (who can at least help people use the systems) and anyone else who might be able to help. Oh yes, and you work out your media plan in case of disaster in advance.
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Taking a point from an earlier thread, Hubris is an excellent word.When Hubris is present,Nemesis then reacts with judgement,and finally Ate cuts the string of life.Thats how the Ancient Greeks viewed it.Will Willy Wonka fall on his sword,or take Hemloch??
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And a couple more reasons
Quite coincidently I was travelling via T1 on 27th. So I thought I might return via a later flight and go see the fanatstic T5.
On landing at 845 the long queue of aircraft trying to get on stand a T5 was not a good sign. They were backed up on the taxi way to T3.
A few things that are wrong/went wrong with T5 that haven't been mentioned as far as I have seen. -
On landing at 845 the long queue of aircraft trying to get on stand a T5 was not a good sign. They were backed up on the taxi way to T3.
A few things that are wrong/went wrong with T5 that haven't been mentioned as far as I have seen. -
- Tubes to T5 are not sufficiently frequent.
- The tube service to T5 collapsed completely in the late afternoon.
- The landside connection to/from T4 is a nightmare. No clear instructions, misleading train information, and it takes over half an hour at the very best.
- Moving between Tube and HEX platforms at T5 is not as easy as it should be.
- This is a holiday period and large numbers of travellers were confused about transport arrangements. Just pity the poor novice connecting from T4 to T5.
- Not enough instructions and some signs far too small. ex the HEX and Tube directions on the departure level.
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With Lufthansa, at least the delayed bag arrived by taxi same day, if you were not on the last flight into UK, or next day.
How much does 15,000 bags cost to return, and who pays in this case?
How much does 15,000 bags cost to return, and who pays in this case?
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Hubris
FaStoat,
I think you were refering to my post in which I did complement the UK media on their use of the word Hubris, I had to look it up myself, I must admit, not that smart, just an Average Aeronautical engineer in a boiler suit!
I like your further investigation, you are indeed correct with regard the connection between Hubris and nemesis, the following is a quote I obtained from a Holocaust article;
The Holocaust: Christian and Jewish Responses
ALICE L. ECKARDT
'The man of hubris does not escape nemesis, there is judgment'
Now that my dear Overstress neatly ties in my earlier connection between this current situation and events of the 1940's. They all include 'Men of Hubris'. Judgement is comming at BA.
Thanks FaStoat for the lead and education
I think you were refering to my post in which I did complement the UK media on their use of the word Hubris, I had to look it up myself, I must admit, not that smart, just an Average Aeronautical engineer in a boiler suit!
I like your further investigation, you are indeed correct with regard the connection between Hubris and nemesis, the following is a quote I obtained from a Holocaust article;
The Holocaust: Christian and Jewish Responses
ALICE L. ECKARDT
'The man of hubris does not escape nemesis, there is judgment'
Now that my dear Overstress neatly ties in my earlier connection between this current situation and events of the 1940's. They all include 'Men of Hubris'. Judgement is comming at BA.
Thanks FaStoat for the lead and education
Last edited by BAengineering; 30th Mar 2008 at 11:59.
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One or two people have risen (slightly) to Walsh's defence, along the lines of "knock him down and he'll bounce right up again, and fix the problem."
While the ability to bounce back, and the tenacity to fix problems, are laudable qualities, these supporters are missing one major point.
For the sake of the passengers, the staff, the shareholders, and the very existence of the company, there should have been no need to 'bounce back.'
Walsh should have got it right the first time. He didn't.
While the ability to bounce back, and the tenacity to fix problems, are laudable qualities, these supporters are missing one major point.
For the sake of the passengers, the staff, the shareholders, and the very existence of the company, there should have been no need to 'bounce back.'
Walsh should have got it right the first time. He didn't.
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HEATHROW TERMINAL 5 DISRUPTION - VIRGIN ATLANTIC FLIGHTS RUNNING NORMALLY
Virgin Atlantic flights are unaffected by the ongoing disruption involving BA flights at Heathrow Terminal 5.
Virgin Atlantic's new Terminal 3 features fast and seamless Check-In for all passengers via the new Virgin Atlantic Zone A Check-In area, and a new private security corridor for Upper Class and Flying Club Gold Card passengers - who are able to whizz through the new Upper Class Wing and into the Clubhouse in minutes.
Virgin Atlantic flights are unaffected by the ongoing disruption involving BA flights at Heathrow Terminal 5.
Virgin Atlantic's new Terminal 3 features fast and seamless Check-In for all passengers via the new Virgin Atlantic Zone A Check-In area, and a new private security corridor for Upper Class and Flying Club Gold Card passengers - who are able to whizz through the new Upper Class Wing and into the Clubhouse in minutes.
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The sooner star alliance get T1 sorted then BA have a challenge from the regions. Itæs fine saying longhaul are not being cancelled but when you miss a connection in either direction due to a late or cancelled flight then what? It's no use saying do you want to travel with hand luggage only when going on a cruise?
It appears over 50% on the MAN flights have or will be cancelled in the previous and coming days.
The SNP are calling for an inquiry as to why so many domestic flights have suffered. Sir Menzies Campbell collapsed whilst on a bus waiting at T5. After being taken to hospital he continued his journey home by rail. I'm sure he'll have something to say.
No gong for Wilie and his chums for a year or two now.....
Come on BA get back to the old BA we were proud of and that Johny Foreigner would go out of his way to fly with rather than now go out of his way not to fly with.....
It appears over 50% on the MAN flights have or will be cancelled in the previous and coming days.
The SNP are calling for an inquiry as to why so many domestic flights have suffered. Sir Menzies Campbell collapsed whilst on a bus waiting at T5. After being taken to hospital he continued his journey home by rail. I'm sure he'll have something to say.
No gong for Wilie and his chums for a year or two now.....
Come on BA get back to the old BA we were proud of and that Johny Foreigner would go out of his way to fly with rather than now go out of his way not to fly with.....
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Come on BA get back to the old BA we were proud of and that Johny Foreigner would go out of his way to fly with rather than now go out of his way not to fly with.....
2012 will be the ultimate laugh and a half. Does anyone seriously think we have the management skill to be ready for the olympics??
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Jerry Coe
Yep, beautifully put but Sunfish had the experience and honesty to say (as an MBA himself): "Any decent MBA school will send you off with a reminder that an MBA is a licence to learn management."
The other side of this coin is that, from 1988 onwards, I watched older managers (in their 60s) retiring the 50-somethings and hiring these young guns in their 20s. The seniors did not have MBAs, they had old fashioned degrees and decades of experience in learning the ropes of the company and the world. Why did they start retiring the middle group? Save on pensions? Think that, by having young boys and girls in posts of 'management' that they would bring 'new life' and 'new ideas' into the biz?
Speaking as one who spent several years cleaning up the project mess made by others in the 25+ years I was in Telecomms and IT, this disaster shows that BA has a corporate management problem. It has been talked about for years and many threads in here and the press have given clues. This project was too big for the children of BA management. Better bring back the grown ups.
The really interesting point for discussion is this: How many other companies around the world are in the same position? Running along more-or-less OK because the staff are holding it together, but a big event is too much and the staff can no longer prevent the management being exposed?
... it was middle- and upper-management in both companies who failed. And that’s mainly due to a malady that has been sweeping the world for twenty years or more – the awful, abysmal, MBA.
So these newly-minted MBAs are then snapped up into management positions, by other MBAs already in place at the big corporations – and the cycle of unknowing incompetence is thus perpetuated.
So these newly-minted MBAs are then snapped up into management positions, by other MBAs already in place at the big corporations – and the cycle of unknowing incompetence is thus perpetuated.
The other side of this coin is that, from 1988 onwards, I watched older managers (in their 60s) retiring the 50-somethings and hiring these young guns in their 20s. The seniors did not have MBAs, they had old fashioned degrees and decades of experience in learning the ropes of the company and the world. Why did they start retiring the middle group? Save on pensions? Think that, by having young boys and girls in posts of 'management' that they would bring 'new life' and 'new ideas' into the biz?
Speaking as one who spent several years cleaning up the project mess made by others in the 25+ years I was in Telecomms and IT, this disaster shows that BA has a corporate management problem. It has been talked about for years and many threads in here and the press have given clues. This project was too big for the children of BA management. Better bring back the grown ups.
The really interesting point for discussion is this: How many other companies around the world are in the same position? Running along more-or-less OK because the staff are holding it together, but a big event is too much and the staff can no longer prevent the management being exposed?
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I watched older managers (in their 60s) retiring the 50-somethings and hiring these young guns in their 20s. The seniors did not have MBAs, they had old fashioned degrees and decades of experience in learning the ropes of the company and the world. Why did they start retiring the middle group? Save on pensions? Think that, by having young boys and girls in posts of 'management' that they would bring 'new life' and 'new ideas' into the biz?
Speaking as one who spent several years cleaning up the project mess made by others in the 25+ years I was in Telecomms and IT, this disaster shows that BA has a corporate management problem. It has been talked about for years and many threads in here and the press have given clues. This project was too big for the children of BA management. Better bring back the grown ups.
Speaking as one who spent several years cleaning up the project mess made by others in the 25+ years I was in Telecomms and IT, this disaster shows that BA has a corporate management problem. It has been talked about for years and many threads in here and the press have given clues. This project was too big for the children of BA management. Better bring back the grown ups.
I have lost count how many times I heard skilled seniors say " been there, got the teashirt , it will not work. I will keep quiet and cover my back cos if I say anything it will be flagged as negative thinking"
The BA kiddy tails was the perfect example of no one prepared to say "NO! This is rubbish. STOP"
I got out early to save my sanity.
A message for WW.
"Management, at its risk, ignores the guy doing the job!"
Make a little sign with this message on both sides, then pop it on your desk perhaps with a similar " The buck stops here" sign
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I'm not going to join in the assorted bashing exercises, because I know not enough about the facts. I'm just a paying punter in this context, who isn't flying MaxJet any more, for well-known reasons.
However ... I'm booked with BA, LHR-IAD, in about 8 weeks' time.
Notionally a T5 departure ... is that likely to happen?
Or is the "remain at T4 for now" [another Hell-hole] option more likely?
However ... I'm booked with BA, LHR-IAD, in about 8 weeks' time.
Notionally a T5 departure ... is that likely to happen?
Or is the "remain at T4 for now" [another Hell-hole] option more likely?
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Gareth Kirkwood on YouTube (or not)
I presume that this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsJvdS4Y5F8 from post #605 is supposed to link to a clip of Master Kirkwood's cringe-making statement on Terminal Thursday?
I get a pink line with the message "This video is not available in your country."
When did YouTube start region-blocking?
I get a pink line with the message "This video is not available in your country."
When did YouTube start region-blocking?
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ILoadMyself
When did YouTube start region-blocking?
When did YouTube start region-blocking?
This one of Wee Willie has been blocked too.
http://youtube.com/results?search_qu...h&search_type=
Click on "BA chief on T5 teething woes"