Chaos at Terminal 5
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the baggage system
derekvader
Basically it seems to me that if the baggage system is so complicated that it takes 4+ days for everyone to learn it then they probably should have just spent the same money on a small army of people
Basically it seems to me that if the baggage system is so complicated that it takes 4+ days for everyone to learn it then they probably should have just spent the same money on a small army of people
I'm as puzzled as you are why the baggage handlers need to 'log on' too. Anyone know what that's all about ? Sounds like un-necessary complication.
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MBAs
Re-Heat
Unfortunately I am not aware that BA recruit any MBAs at all
Unfortunately I am not aware that BA recruit any MBAs at all
If you had ever met an MBA, you would generally realise how bright and intelligent they are, and what a huge ability they have to achieve.
Last edited by pasoundman; 30th Mar 2008 at 22:24. Reason: combine posts
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Baggage Handling, does NOBODY learn from history?
Does anybody remember the opening of CDG. new, futuristic, state of the art, multilevel terminal. It didn't need to be, there was plenty of space. Nonetheless, we got a high rise baggage handling nightmare. Almost anything jammed it up.
Next up, Denver. A state of the art baggage handling system which never worked and had to be replaced, delaying the opening by 12 months. At least it was tested and found wanting. In the case of T5, despite all that was said they pressed on regardless.
It's a typically British disease this. ignoring warnings. Even those warnings are becoming less frequent as it represents "negativity", currently a particularly career limiting move. The result of this corporate culture is that few middle managers or technical professionals will fight for what they believe. They simply state their objection once and leave it at that.
The powers that be continue on regardless.
The consequences we see all too plainly.
Why shouldn't they, nobody at the top of this fiasco will suffer too much.
Next up, Denver. A state of the art baggage handling system which never worked and had to be replaced, delaying the opening by 12 months. At least it was tested and found wanting. In the case of T5, despite all that was said they pressed on regardless.
It's a typically British disease this. ignoring warnings. Even those warnings are becoming less frequent as it represents "negativity", currently a particularly career limiting move. The result of this corporate culture is that few middle managers or technical professionals will fight for what they believe. They simply state their objection once and leave it at that.
The powers that be continue on regardless.
The consequences we see all too plainly.
Why shouldn't they, nobody at the top of this fiasco will suffer too much.
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Whose responsibility ?
coopervane
The building is BAA's responsibility.
The security is BAA's responsibility.
The building is BAA's responsibility.
The security is BAA's responsibility.
But it was BA's responsibility to make sure they had done the job properly !
How can broken down lifts, phones and escalators escape anyone's notice ?
Last edited by pasoundman; 30th Mar 2008 at 23:54. Reason: correct typo
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That's OK then
1) A lot of shorthaul gets cancelled, but generally more goes.
17th Jan, everything got chopped
Bloke jumps over the fence, everything got chopped
A4 is right. You would have to be quite literally INSANE to rely on BA for anything when connecting in from the provinces.
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MBAs again
BAengineering
This MBA line, those qualified sorts, not listening to direct staff. My opinion is that they actually, genuinely think they are above and better, rather than on the same team pulling the same way.
This MBA line, those qualified sorts, not listening to direct staff. My opinion is that they actually, genuinely think they are above and better, rather than on the same team pulling the same way.
The damage that management can do when it doesn't actually understand 'the job' properly is truly phenomenal. This is where the MBA really scores, because they've been educated to believe that this experience is largely unimportant.
It's a typically British disease this. ignoring warnings. Even those warnings are becoming less frequent as it represents "negativity", currently a particularly career limiting move.
I like the reference to negativity currently being a particularly career limiting move. However, ignoring warnings is not "typically British". There's plenty evidence of this where I work and I can assure you that managers of other prominent nationalities are just as bad.
pasoundman ...
I'm as puzzled as you are why the baggage handlers need to 'log on' too. Anyone know what that's all about ? Sounds like un-necessary complication.
Every bag out of a bagage system has to be scanned with a bar code reader before being placed on the truck/ULD... it's part of the baggage reconciliation requirements.
Each bag sorter needs to log into the PC for the scanner he/she is using.
It can also mean that chucking more bods in solves nothing - if there's a limited number of PC's at each sorting station all anyone extra can do is watch!!
I'm as puzzled as you are why the baggage handlers need to 'log on' too. Anyone know what that's all about ? Sounds like un-necessary complication.
Every bag out of a bagage system has to be scanned with a bar code reader before being placed on the truck/ULD... it's part of the baggage reconciliation requirements.
Each bag sorter needs to log into the PC for the scanner he/she is using.
It can also mean that chucking more bods in solves nothing - if there's a limited number of PC's at each sorting station all anyone extra can do is watch!!
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Apparently, yes.
maybe that's why you haven't been asked 
you could always turn up anyway - try the old flash mob with witty t-shirt (working for someone called Willie the possibilities are numerous)... you would probably get a standing ovation from the queueing pax.
I might volunteer my own services for extra money. I'd make passengers happy by telling them what a bunch of Willie wonkeroids I work for.
you could always turn up anyway - try the old flash mob with witty t-shirt (working for someone called Willie the possibilities are numerous)... you would probably get a standing ovation from the queueing pax.
When l was referring to all the crap in the jetty,its not from cabin crew , as they leave all the crap in the aircraft,including expensive headsets and washbags that the lazy buggers are meant to gather up after the flight. The detritus in the jetties is from accumulated crap dropped by pax over the previous week. Still , look on the bright side. An arriving pax would then be introduced to all the crap they will see on the roadside as they drive the highways and byeways of this green and pleasant land!
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Ummm ... Willie Walsh has an MBA for starters !
Gareth Kirkwood and Robert Boyle do however hold MBAs - one from Lancaster and one from INSEAD. Kirkwood probably won't be around for much longer though, so you can probably reduce that count of MBAs in senior management by one.
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The damage that management can do when it doesn't actually understand 'the job' properly is truly phenomenal. This is where the MBA really scores, because they've been educated to believe that this experience is largely unimportant.
They don't. I have worked with hundreds of MBAs (literally), and can assure you that your experience of the few in BA is that of the poor managers, not the average MBA. BA do not so far as I am aware have an MBA entry programme each year.
Paxing All Over The World
I agree that the sweeping view against MBAs (easy target though they be) is not valid. In any company/organisation there are dedicated staff that work many more hours than they are paid for - and there those who just roll on through each day, hardly touching the sides.
The problem that I saw start in 1989 when I was working in the City (London financial district) was that managers are no longer paid to avoid things going wrong. They are paid to clean up the mess when it happens. I have seen this many times over the past 19/20 years.
Companies have decided to NOT pay for training and maintenance on some items and save the money. They have decided that it is cheaper to fix the problem than to prevent it. I have seen managers:
The problem that I saw start in 1989 when I was working in the City (London financial district) was that managers are no longer paid to avoid things going wrong. They are paid to clean up the mess when it happens. I have seen this many times over the past 19/20 years.
Companies have decided to NOT pay for training and maintenance on some items and save the money. They have decided that it is cheaper to fix the problem than to prevent it. I have seen managers:
- Not heed warnings in order to save money and his boss is pleased (because the boss does not know about the warnings, of course!).
- Problem duly blows up.
- Manger wades in with shirt sleeves (or jets off to the distant place where it went wrong) and NOW spends the money - and maybe more - to fix the problem.
- Boss very pleased and praises manager for fixing the problem.
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If all front line staff were to talk to customers the way Kirkwood did to the press on Thursday then we'd have gone bankrupt by now. Apologies require sincerity and Gareth Kirkwood seemed to have had his sucked out of him. He represents all that is wrong with BA. The video of his cowardice has been 'pulled' from youtube. Again an indictment of their methods of management.
Sack the little pr*ck.
Sack the little pr*ck.
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This is still making news here down under:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/brit...850758180.html
I particularly like this bit:
Gee, BA management, just think of all the money you've saved by paring down check-in and bagge handling staff, and not testing the new terminal thoroughly. I, for one, will NEVER EVER fly through Heathrow again nor fly BA. And spending millions of pounds/dollars on advertising won't change my mind.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/brit...850758180.html
I particularly like this bit:
The launch of the terminal has proved a public relations disaster with potential major financial pain for BA,...
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Will it ever get any better!
We left GLA 20 mins late due to late baggage (also 15 down) and no paperwork till -3mins.
We left LHR 3hrs 20 with 60 bags down and no dispatcher till -05mins
Why we still have Pax I will never know.
Is this the sign of the times with our handlers.
Only had 2 sectors.
Time to move on.
We left LHR 3hrs 20 with 60 bags down and no dispatcher till -05mins
Why we still have Pax I will never know.
Is this the sign of the times with our handlers.
Only had 2 sectors.
Time to move on.
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Airline web site today shows.
All longhaul T5 departures normal....
T1 and T4 departures normal....
But it also shows the following flights are canx....LAX,PVG,IAD,JFK,JFK.
At least the information for passengers is clear to misssunderstand !!!
All longhaul T5 departures normal....
T1 and T4 departures normal....
But it also shows the following flights are canx....LAX,PVG,IAD,JFK,JFK.
At least the information for passengers is clear to misssunderstand !!!
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The real measure
BA shares open down 4% within minutes of market opening. I think it is loud and clear from our investor stake holders. Sack WW and his amazing bunch of half wits. Amazing PPrune and its comments so in synch with feelings about BA.