Chaos at Terminal 5
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Baggage performance issues
Is it only me that found the phrase 'baggage performing issues' as a description of the debacle that was T5 opening as very amusing?
THe bags didn't perform as expected?
Naughty underperforming bags, samsonite was the least obedient, though the Delsey was very compliant to managements wishes. Indeed strangely for some observers the Victorinox 'swiss army' cases really rallied around when the going got tough and helped out in true military style. Certainly the lowerclass baggage from Tesco's was just plain stubborn in its flat refusal to co-operate. These unruly types just told WW and his management BIGWIGS to BOGOFF.
I can just imagine the next big management performance meeting, powerpoints at the ready with a chart detailing the 'baggage performance' chart!!!!!!
Losers......
THe bags didn't perform as expected?
Naughty underperforming bags, samsonite was the least obedient, though the Delsey was very compliant to managements wishes. Indeed strangely for some observers the Victorinox 'swiss army' cases really rallied around when the going got tough and helped out in true military style. Certainly the lowerclass baggage from Tesco's was just plain stubborn in its flat refusal to co-operate. These unruly types just told WW and his management BIGWIGS to BOGOFF.
I can just imagine the next big management performance meeting, powerpoints at the ready with a chart detailing the 'baggage performance' chart!!!!!!
Losers......
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WWW, bright ideas man Versus BA 3d Drivers
Sorry BAengineering, but you can bet your sweet back-side
that it will end in blood and tears.
This present situation will only serve to make confrontation
inevitable.
Willy will be going balls out to try to get some credibility back,
but has already revealed MAJOR weakness to the whole World.
I'm sorry to have raised this issue here, but it needs to be put
forward.
Perhaps I shouldn't have raised it now, and I am sorry.
PS Try finding the nose wheels to find the proper pointy bit.
that it will end in blood and tears.
This present situation will only serve to make confrontation
inevitable.
Willy will be going balls out to try to get some credibility back,
but has already revealed MAJOR weakness to the whole World.
I'm sorry to have raised this issue here, but it needs to be put
forward.
Perhaps I shouldn't have raised it now, and I am sorry.
PS Try finding the nose wheels to find the proper pointy bit.
Last edited by Storminnorm; 28th Mar 2008 at 21:07.
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You cannot blame all this mess on Willy.
This is part of the Heathrow malaise where it is always someone else's fault.
Without Willy I don't think the airline would have still been here; so think again!
This is part of the Heathrow malaise where it is always someone else's fault.
Without Willy I don't think the airline would have still been here; so think again!
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Vino Collapso.....
1. Inadequate staff parking (BAA problem)
2. Inadequate staff numbers for a showcase opening (BA problem)
3. Indequate security staff to screen workers (BAA problem)
4. Baggage backlog due lack of staff, baggage system fails (BA problem)
5. Technical fault with baggage system (BAA problem)
6. Numerous other shortges and failures in equipment and staff (Both BAA and BA)
That reads as inadequate staff by both BAA and BA to ensure any last minute glitches could be coped with.
Vino, I'm blaming this 100% squarely on BA and would answer your points above like this:-
1. How many spaces did BA request BAA to provide for Staff?
3. How many staff did BA tell BAA to resource up for?
5. I dont belive that there was a baggage system fault at all other than one surrounding the lack of BA loaders.
6. How much equipment did BA request from BAA in the first instance?
What acceptance testing of T5 did BA themselves actually undertake? looks to me like none!
My view is that Willy's clowns didnt undertake enough "mass testing" of T5 and left it all to BAA. BAA can only resource up for the figures that BA requested which would obviously have a cost associated with it. I bet BA chipped and chipped away at BAA's charges and ended up buying a Lada rather than an BMW let alone a Rolls Royce!
BA are now a laughing stock and need a big big clear out of managers at all levels in order to change the culture which starts at the board level. Where were the contingency plans? How many BA "managers" got their "hands dirty" and helped the baggage problem.... None I bet!
I feel sorry for BAA who can only work with the information that they are supplied with by BA.
I'm a shareholder of BA and obviously appauled at the total incomptenance of BA and will be asking questions at the AGM if there is any space in the queue or if the company survives that long!! When is the AAIB report on the 777 incident? If the 777 was at fault surely they would have all been grounded by now so I wonder who else can be responsible?
BA forget the grinning cabin crew and smart lounges, get back to basics and provide a quality service for a quality price. Employ some fresh blood and work at the end to end customer experience which starts with flights on time and being able take luggage!
United for me across the pond from now on!
2. Inadequate staff numbers for a showcase opening (BA problem)
3. Indequate security staff to screen workers (BAA problem)
4. Baggage backlog due lack of staff, baggage system fails (BA problem)
5. Technical fault with baggage system (BAA problem)
6. Numerous other shortges and failures in equipment and staff (Both BAA and BA)
That reads as inadequate staff by both BAA and BA to ensure any last minute glitches could be coped with.
Vino, I'm blaming this 100% squarely on BA and would answer your points above like this:-
1. How many spaces did BA request BAA to provide for Staff?
3. How many staff did BA tell BAA to resource up for?
5. I dont belive that there was a baggage system fault at all other than one surrounding the lack of BA loaders.
6. How much equipment did BA request from BAA in the first instance?
What acceptance testing of T5 did BA themselves actually undertake? looks to me like none!
My view is that Willy's clowns didnt undertake enough "mass testing" of T5 and left it all to BAA. BAA can only resource up for the figures that BA requested which would obviously have a cost associated with it. I bet BA chipped and chipped away at BAA's charges and ended up buying a Lada rather than an BMW let alone a Rolls Royce!
BA are now a laughing stock and need a big big clear out of managers at all levels in order to change the culture which starts at the board level. Where were the contingency plans? How many BA "managers" got their "hands dirty" and helped the baggage problem.... None I bet!
I feel sorry for BAA who can only work with the information that they are supplied with by BA.
I'm a shareholder of BA and obviously appauled at the total incomptenance of BA and will be asking questions at the AGM if there is any space in the queue or if the company survives that long!! When is the AAIB report on the 777 incident? If the 777 was at fault surely they would have all been grounded by now so I wonder who else can be responsible?
BA forget the grinning cabin crew and smart lounges, get back to basics and provide a quality service for a quality price. Employ some fresh blood and work at the end to end customer experience which starts with flights on time and being able take luggage!
United for me across the pond from now on!
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I beg to differ. Rod Eddington and Andrew Sentance left BA in pretty good shape financially. If the airline owes it's survival to anyone it's AS. The Heathrow malaise exists because management refuse to listen, they are incentivised not to. That is in no small part the work of WW.
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WW on Wickipedia
Just saw this on Wickipedia;
Early life
Walsh was born in Dublin, Ireland. He attended his local secondary school Ardscoil Rís. At the age of 17 he became a pilot at Irish flag carrier Aer Lingus, joining as a cadet in 1979. During his time as a pilot he acted as chief negotiator for the Irish Airline Pilots Association (IALPA) and is quoted during this time that "a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations". He also acquired a Master's degree in management and business administration from Trinity College, Dublin during his pilot years. 1
He later joined company management, with various positions including that of Chief Executive of then company subsidiary, Futura from 1998 to 2000.
[edit] Aer Lingus Chief Executive
In October 2001 he was appointed Chief Executive from his then position of Chief Operating Officer, succeeding Michael Foley who had resigned following a harassment complaint. The carrier was in financial difficulty in the wake of the market downturn following the events of September 11, 2001, losing £2m per day[citation needed]. Walsh took action by eliminating 2,000 staff positions, reducing the number of aircraft types and selling non-core assets, including an art collection at the company headquarters. He reconfigured Aer Lingus as a low cost airline in imitation of Ryanair, and began withdrawing from various services like short-haul Business Class and cargo services and heavily restricting the airline's frequent flyer programme, TAB.
The company operating profits rebounded but the cost of the write-offs and redundancies meant that net profitability was not as quick to recover. Not all of Walsh's reforms were successful, such as the outsourcing of aircraft cleaning. The contracting had not been agreed with Aer Lingus unions which led to large payments to the private contractor while Aer Lingus employees did the cleaning work. A three day lockout occurred in 2002 during the peak of the cutbacks.
The management team suggested to the principal shareholder, the Irish Government, a float of Aer Lingus on the stock market. Stock floats are often rewarding to top management and this was opposed by the unions who feared a privatised Aer Lingus would impose even tougher working conditions. The Government eventually turned down the float and this led to Walsh and other management executives resigning from the company in January 2005.
The Irish prime minister, Bertie Ahern, subsequently described Walsh's offer of an MBO as "[a time] when management wanted to steal the assets for themselves through a management buy out, shafting staff interests." Dáil record, 17 May 2006.
Dermot Mannion, formerly of Emirates Airline, succeeded Walsh as Aer Lingus Chief Executive.
[edit] British Airways Chief Executive
The British Airways board were seeking a successor to Chief Executive Rod Eddington who had announced plans to return to his native Australia at the end of his contract. Walsh was hired in May 2005 at the age of 43 with a six month shadowing period to get to know the business before the departure of Eddington on October 1, 2005.
Since Willie Walsh took over the reins of British Airways as CEO in October 2005, he has headed the airline during a time of unprecedented turmoil and industrial relations problems.
Summer 2005 - ground staff walk out in support of Gate Gourmet
Summer 2006 - Fuel surcharge price fixing - airline fined record £270 million
Summer 2006 - British Airways was announced by the Association of European Airlines as having lost the most luggage in 2006 compared to other major European airlines. For every 1000 passengers carried, it lost 23 bags, 46% more than the average March 2008 - T5 Chaos - opening of £4.3 billion heathrow terminal descends into chaos.
Famous 'not our finest hour' quote by Willie Walsh
In an interview provided for Skynews Mr Walsh vowed to stay on at the airline, probably to sort out his own mess.
Feel free to go edit and add your own comments to the historical document.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_...hief_Executive
Early life
Walsh was born in Dublin, Ireland. He attended his local secondary school Ardscoil Rís. At the age of 17 he became a pilot at Irish flag carrier Aer Lingus, joining as a cadet in 1979. During his time as a pilot he acted as chief negotiator for the Irish Airline Pilots Association (IALPA) and is quoted during this time that "a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations". He also acquired a Master's degree in management and business administration from Trinity College, Dublin during his pilot years. 1
He later joined company management, with various positions including that of Chief Executive of then company subsidiary, Futura from 1998 to 2000.
[edit] Aer Lingus Chief Executive
In October 2001 he was appointed Chief Executive from his then position of Chief Operating Officer, succeeding Michael Foley who had resigned following a harassment complaint. The carrier was in financial difficulty in the wake of the market downturn following the events of September 11, 2001, losing £2m per day[citation needed]. Walsh took action by eliminating 2,000 staff positions, reducing the number of aircraft types and selling non-core assets, including an art collection at the company headquarters. He reconfigured Aer Lingus as a low cost airline in imitation of Ryanair, and began withdrawing from various services like short-haul Business Class and cargo services and heavily restricting the airline's frequent flyer programme, TAB.
The company operating profits rebounded but the cost of the write-offs and redundancies meant that net profitability was not as quick to recover. Not all of Walsh's reforms were successful, such as the outsourcing of aircraft cleaning. The contracting had not been agreed with Aer Lingus unions which led to large payments to the private contractor while Aer Lingus employees did the cleaning work. A three day lockout occurred in 2002 during the peak of the cutbacks.
The management team suggested to the principal shareholder, the Irish Government, a float of Aer Lingus on the stock market. Stock floats are often rewarding to top management and this was opposed by the unions who feared a privatised Aer Lingus would impose even tougher working conditions. The Government eventually turned down the float and this led to Walsh and other management executives resigning from the company in January 2005.
The Irish prime minister, Bertie Ahern, subsequently described Walsh's offer of an MBO as "[a time] when management wanted to steal the assets for themselves through a management buy out, shafting staff interests." Dáil record, 17 May 2006.
Dermot Mannion, formerly of Emirates Airline, succeeded Walsh as Aer Lingus Chief Executive.
[edit] British Airways Chief Executive
The British Airways board were seeking a successor to Chief Executive Rod Eddington who had announced plans to return to his native Australia at the end of his contract. Walsh was hired in May 2005 at the age of 43 with a six month shadowing period to get to know the business before the departure of Eddington on October 1, 2005.
Since Willie Walsh took over the reins of British Airways as CEO in October 2005, he has headed the airline during a time of unprecedented turmoil and industrial relations problems.
Summer 2005 - ground staff walk out in support of Gate Gourmet
Summer 2006 - Fuel surcharge price fixing - airline fined record £270 million
Summer 2006 - British Airways was announced by the Association of European Airlines as having lost the most luggage in 2006 compared to other major European airlines. For every 1000 passengers carried, it lost 23 bags, 46% more than the average March 2008 - T5 Chaos - opening of £4.3 billion heathrow terminal descends into chaos.
Famous 'not our finest hour' quote by Willie Walsh
In an interview provided for Skynews Mr Walsh vowed to stay on at the airline, probably to sort out his own mess.
Feel free to go edit and add your own comments to the historical document.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_...hief_Executive
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Andrew Wolstenholme 2003
Searching for what google had to tell me about Andrew Wolstenhome, I came across this interesting little Powerpoint presentation , presumably from BAA to some regulatory body.
http://www.baa.com/assets/B2CPortal/..._terminal5.pdf
At that time (2003), Andrew was T5 Construction Director and slide 52 talks about how T5 would learn from other projects (e.g. Denver).
Denver failed "to realise the criticality of the baggage handling system to the overall project in time"
The mitigation for T5 was to have "a highly visible Baggage Team within project governance structure and Independent Project Board"
Another issue would be helped by having "operational expertise integrated into the Project Team."
Andrew appears to have risen to Director of Capital Projects for BAA.
It would be interesting to hear how his mitigation plans worked out since 2003.
Incidentally, I think it unfair to criticise Stephen Nelson as being unable to organise festivities at a brewery. I had the pleasure when he was MD of Guinness UK of him shutting the brewery down for a day and bussing the entire UK workforce to a filmset where we participated in various artistic endeavours (including line-dancing and drumming) culminating in a cringe-making finale where he was presented with a guitar on which he could jam along to us all.
http://www.baa.com/assets/B2CPortal/..._terminal5.pdf
At that time (2003), Andrew was T5 Construction Director and slide 52 talks about how T5 would learn from other projects (e.g. Denver).
Denver failed "to realise the criticality of the baggage handling system to the overall project in time"
The mitigation for T5 was to have "a highly visible Baggage Team within project governance structure and Independent Project Board"
Another issue would be helped by having "operational expertise integrated into the Project Team."
Andrew appears to have risen to Director of Capital Projects for BAA.
It would be interesting to hear how his mitigation plans worked out since 2003.
Incidentally, I think it unfair to criticise Stephen Nelson as being unable to organise festivities at a brewery. I had the pleasure when he was MD of Guinness UK of him shutting the brewery down for a day and bussing the entire UK workforce to a filmset where we participated in various artistic endeavours (including line-dancing and drumming) culminating in a cringe-making finale where he was presented with a guitar on which he could jam along to us all.
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Hand Solo said:
Sadly I really think he will push it. It's starting to become apparent that WWs strategy is to blindly pursue whatever idea comes into his head with little regard for reality. It's his airline, and his right to manage it is more important to him than the fallout of his ideas.
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With BAA mortgaged up to its eyeballs in £billions of debt courtesy of Ferovial, perhaps they didn't have the cash to finish T5?
That's why the lifts don't work (a case of "elevatory non-conformity" as WW might describe it) - they couldn't afford the electricity to test them, or anything else.
Security swipe cards not working? That'll be "workforce processing misalignment"...
That's why the lifts don't work (a case of "elevatory non-conformity" as WW might describe it) - they couldn't afford the electricity to test them, or anything else.
Security swipe cards not working? That'll be "workforce processing misalignment"...
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Walsh ..... also acquired a Master's degree in management and business administration from Trinity College, Dublin
Walsh ..... also acquired a Master's degree in management and business administration from Trinity College, Dublin
Walsh ..... is quoted ... that "a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations".
I'm curious just how long the fiasco will continue. I can't see them fixing it any time soon yet if they don't who is going to want to fly with BA ?
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is the little ponce in need of medication?
Hand a spot on observation. This man's ego will now absolutley refuse to back down on OS. He needs a victory to distract his next employer s from the disaster that he had 3 years to get ready for. We the pilots will be his smoke and mirrors.
If the board let him it really will be time to put the buy orders in for 90p.
As for the crack smoking lunatic who believes WW has saved BA! manrow what exactly do you do for a living?
Hand a spot on observation. This man's ego will now absolutley refuse to back down on OS. He needs a victory to distract his next employer s from the disaster that he had 3 years to get ready for. We the pilots will be his smoke and mirrors.
If the board let him it really will be time to put the buy orders in for 90p.
As for the crack smoking lunatic who believes WW has saved BA! manrow what exactly do you do for a living?
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this story is beginning to die
no longer top story on bbc.co.uk/news. The bits of T5 my colleagues in IM look after worked perfectly but then we are able to scratch our arse without having to be instructed.
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This is not a story
Viewfrom5Bells,
you must have a view from the pub, are you pi55ed?
This is not a story, it is a national disgrace, and typical of all the 'clean' suited types at BA your bit was ok. Well good for you that a computer programme you didn;t design and have to call in the developers if a byte goes wrong.
Certainly the reason you know how to scratch your arse is because that's what you practically do from 9-5.
Oh the waterworld Trolls are back
you must have a view from the pub, are you pi55ed?
This is not a story, it is a national disgrace, and typical of all the 'clean' suited types at BA your bit was ok. Well good for you that a computer programme you didn;t design and have to call in the developers if a byte goes wrong.
Certainly the reason you know how to scratch your arse is because that's what you practically do from 9-5.
Oh the waterworld Trolls are back
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BBC quote
BBC QUOTE:
Mid-morning they, and we, all rush to hear BA chief executive Willie Walsh admit Thursday's events were Not Good. (understatement)
He sweats under the lights of the cameras.
But presumably it's not only the heat that's making him perspire.
And unlike our friends in baggage dept, it was most certainly not honest sweat. It was the sort of sweat you would expect to collect from a slimey belly crawling lizard, crawling from the underside of a large garden slug.
Mid-morning they, and we, all rush to hear BA chief executive Willie Walsh admit Thursday's events were Not Good. (understatement)
He sweats under the lights of the cameras.
But presumably it's not only the heat that's making him perspire.
And unlike our friends in baggage dept, it was most certainly not honest sweat. It was the sort of sweat you would expect to collect from a slimey belly crawling lizard, crawling from the underside of a large garden slug.
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Originally Posted by Viewfrom5Bells
The bits of T5 my colleagues in IM look after worked perfectly but then we are able to scratch our arse without having to be instructed.
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THis is not a story
I am sorry to say I really dislike Viewfrom5bells, to say the story is dieing and has dropped of BBC top stories is plainly ridiculous. ( i have czeched)
It's a little like WW's early morning quote to CNN's Richard Quest that he thought all things considered the morning has gone well.
Waterworld trolls, the inane ability to ignore reality, an ingrained characteristic they share with other lunatics.
For the record, T5 Chaos is number 2 on BBC top stories.
It's a little like WW's early morning quote to CNN's Richard Quest that he thought all things considered the morning has gone well.
Waterworld trolls, the inane ability to ignore reality, an ingrained characteristic they share with other lunatics.
For the record, T5 Chaos is number 2 on BBC top stories.
I worked for BA for several years as an engineer before i started flying, during what many would regard as BA's "golden age" in the 90's. Even back then i became progressively more dissillusioned with the type of person that always seemed to get promoted to management positions. Apart from wanting to go flying its the main reason that i left.
In the main, they were;
1. YES men. "YES we can do this.. YES we can do that... no problem" was the line to their superiors. "Make this happen...YOU make this happen" was the line to their subordinates. That does not take a lot of intelligence
2. They were "arse crawlers" before promotion
3. They were arrogant after promotion. That old rhyme "The working class can kiss my arse, i've got the bosses job at last" is very applicable.
Willy Wonka is, in my opinion not as talented as he thinks he is. But, there is also a whole tier of BA middle management who are the same. They consider themselves to be "top drawer clever dicks". They are not.
Dispatching Wonka will not solve BA's problems, the problem is deeper than that.
Also, i think some of the "ashamed" BA staff need to do a bit of soul searching too. I recall in my time there that there was a lot of the "thats not my job/problem" attitude and some aircrew were obsessed with trivial matters with respect to status and money (my father was senior flightcrew at the time and can vouch for the somewhat petty behaviour of his collegues)
I hope BA does not suffer as a result of this T5 fiasco (remember they are having to top up the pension scheme with X millions of pounds per year)
In the main, they were;
1. YES men. "YES we can do this.. YES we can do that... no problem" was the line to their superiors. "Make this happen...YOU make this happen" was the line to their subordinates. That does not take a lot of intelligence
2. They were "arse crawlers" before promotion
3. They were arrogant after promotion. That old rhyme "The working class can kiss my arse, i've got the bosses job at last" is very applicable.
Willy Wonka is, in my opinion not as talented as he thinks he is. But, there is also a whole tier of BA middle management who are the same. They consider themselves to be "top drawer clever dicks". They are not.
Dispatching Wonka will not solve BA's problems, the problem is deeper than that.
Also, i think some of the "ashamed" BA staff need to do a bit of soul searching too. I recall in my time there that there was a lot of the "thats not my job/problem" attitude and some aircrew were obsessed with trivial matters with respect to status and money (my father was senior flightcrew at the time and can vouch for the somewhat petty behaviour of his collegues)
I hope BA does not suffer as a result of this T5 fiasco (remember they are having to top up the pension scheme with X millions of pounds per year)