Chaos at Terminal 5
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Having worked in telecommunications and IT for over 25 years and done many large corporate moves, I am ASTOUNDED to learn that some equipment had to be moved 'live on the night'. You always buy new for Day One and then move the stuff you have to move for Week Two and so on. That is Project Management 1.01
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I received an email yesterday afternoon from the BA Executive Club proudly announcing the opening of T5. It contained the following paragraph:
'At Terminal 5 everything has been streamlined and designed to make your journey through the terminal calm and relaxed. And this morning we saw all the planning fall into place.'
So could you all stop complaining about the problems that have occurred. They are not problems, they are all planned occurrences.
'At Terminal 5 everything has been streamlined and designed to make your journey through the terminal calm and relaxed. And this morning we saw all the planning fall into place.'
So could you all stop complaining about the problems that have occurred. They are not problems, they are all planned occurrences.
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Did BA not conduct test runs in preparation? What about risk management tests if problems arise? This was avoidable with proper preparation and testing. How many months did they have to prepare? BA will lose passengers to other airlines as a result.
Sounds like a terrible PR blunder and I would be embarrassed if I were BA employee. Walsh should get fired.
Sounds like a terrible PR blunder and I would be embarrassed if I were BA employee. Walsh should get fired.
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Singapore Changi
Terminal 3 at Changi opened recently.
Teething troubles? Zero
Passenger experience? Excellent.
A seamless transition from T2 operations.
How come it can't be done at Heathrow? It's an absolute disgrace.
I thank God I wasn't having to go through that airport in the last few days.
Teething troubles? Zero
Passenger experience? Excellent.
A seamless transition from T2 operations.
How come it can't be done at Heathrow? It's an absolute disgrace.
I thank God I wasn't having to go through that airport in the last few days.
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Those big bags under WW's eyes, I take it they were hand baggage only?
n.b. that was meant as a response to post #243 (I havent worked out how to quote)
By the way, did I see that Shanghai opened a new terminal the day before T5? How did this go??
n.b. that was meant as a response to post #243 (I havent worked out how to quote)
By the way, did I see that Shanghai opened a new terminal the day before T5? How did this go??
Front Line Experience
This was posted on another forum, but it is a harsh indictment on airport culture and security.
This is a long post, but worth a read for the chuckle....
Anyone in the Hell Hole called t5 today?
I have had a sh*t of a time..... both with BA and BAA.
It started off at security, when I presented them with my online checkin printed boarding card (no baggage). They told me the boarding card was invalid.
I ambushed one of the thousands of staff wearing the "Can I help you..." tee-shirts and they said, oh, it probably means your flight has been cancelled.
I checked one of the big flight boards, and sure enough, they dont now say "cancelled" they say "contact airline" - cant have pictures of cancelled on the front cover of tomorrows press can we!?!?
Off I went to a huge queue, that had 109 people infront of me... but thought, hey, I have a gold card, l'll call the exec club.
The exec club girl laughed and moved me onto another flight.... great... a 4 hour wait..... but at least its my own bed tonight...
Another hour passed... and then the next flight was cancelled.... exec club again... moved flight.... another time passes...flight cancelled... AGH!!!
Phoned exec club again (queues were terrrrrrrible....) and no more flights today... so booked on first flight tomorrow morning....so we will see....
Next hassle... how do I get out of here? T5 airside has NO exit signs... I could not escape. I asked 4 BAA staff and was sent from one end to another (remember just how big this place is...) and I could not get out.
I eventually found what looked like a senior BAA guy, and started the conversation with the statement around " its a criminal offence to detain someone without cause or charge" in the uk.... you are detaining me and not allowing me to exit your premesis. Turns out that T5 airside has no escape route! I questioned fire exits, and was told that they take you from building A to B to C and not outside!
Anyway...70mins later I managed to get down a staff route into arrivals.... to be presented with customs.... so off I trotted thinking if I get stopped...it will be fun.... walked through...
Next, yes, you have guessed it, immigration....!
I was at the front of the queue... eventually and was asked for a passport..."sorry, dont have one" was my reply... "you have to have one...." I was told.... "where did you come from"..... "slough"......I replied.... "how did you get here"...taxi, I quipped....it went on and on... then a few heavies appeared.... oh no I thought... started the "where is your passport" again... "edinburgh" I replied....yawn....
So , next they say, ok... "can we have some other ID....." "nop"e I say... "we need some ID".... " I ask "what rule or law requires that given what and where I am going?"....they look at eachother....
They then ask for photo id or credit card.... I tell them I have that, but under data protection laws, they have no power to request or record those details......
Anyway...it went on and on.... and thankfully they saw the funny side... I , although really pi**ed off, was cool and jovial....
I eventually escaped the place.... and my favourite hotel put me up for the night at my usual rate, having kicked out some poor soul lower down the "social" ladder..... I hate doing that, but it beats a park bench.... all the LHR hotels are full tonight and its dog eat dog!
Anyway... advice to anyone (and me) - steer clear of Ba and T5 for a few weeks.....
This is a long post, but worth a read for the chuckle....
Anyone in the Hell Hole called t5 today?
I have had a sh*t of a time..... both with BA and BAA.
It started off at security, when I presented them with my online checkin printed boarding card (no baggage). They told me the boarding card was invalid.
I ambushed one of the thousands of staff wearing the "Can I help you..." tee-shirts and they said, oh, it probably means your flight has been cancelled.
I checked one of the big flight boards, and sure enough, they dont now say "cancelled" they say "contact airline" - cant have pictures of cancelled on the front cover of tomorrows press can we!?!?
Off I went to a huge queue, that had 109 people infront of me... but thought, hey, I have a gold card, l'll call the exec club.
The exec club girl laughed and moved me onto another flight.... great... a 4 hour wait..... but at least its my own bed tonight...
Another hour passed... and then the next flight was cancelled.... exec club again... moved flight.... another time passes...flight cancelled... AGH!!!
Phoned exec club again (queues were terrrrrrrible....) and no more flights today... so booked on first flight tomorrow morning....so we will see....
Next hassle... how do I get out of here? T5 airside has NO exit signs... I could not escape. I asked 4 BAA staff and was sent from one end to another (remember just how big this place is...) and I could not get out.
I eventually found what looked like a senior BAA guy, and started the conversation with the statement around " its a criminal offence to detain someone without cause or charge" in the uk.... you are detaining me and not allowing me to exit your premesis. Turns out that T5 airside has no escape route! I questioned fire exits, and was told that they take you from building A to B to C and not outside!
Anyway...70mins later I managed to get down a staff route into arrivals.... to be presented with customs.... so off I trotted thinking if I get stopped...it will be fun.... walked through...
Next, yes, you have guessed it, immigration....!
I was at the front of the queue... eventually and was asked for a passport..."sorry, dont have one" was my reply... "you have to have one...." I was told.... "where did you come from"..... "slough"......I replied.... "how did you get here"...taxi, I quipped....it went on and on... then a few heavies appeared.... oh no I thought... started the "where is your passport" again... "edinburgh" I replied....yawn....
So , next they say, ok... "can we have some other ID....." "nop"e I say... "we need some ID".... " I ask "what rule or law requires that given what and where I am going?"....they look at eachother....
They then ask for photo id or credit card.... I tell them I have that, but under data protection laws, they have no power to request or record those details......
Anyway...it went on and on.... and thankfully they saw the funny side... I , although really pi**ed off, was cool and jovial....
I eventually escaped the place.... and my favourite hotel put me up for the night at my usual rate, having kicked out some poor soul lower down the "social" ladder..... I hate doing that, but it beats a park bench.... all the LHR hotels are full tonight and its dog eat dog!
Anyway... advice to anyone (and me) - steer clear of Ba and T5 for a few weeks.....
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The only positive which might come out of all of this, is that prat, who calls himself "Director of Operations", being given a new career opportunity. To be replaced by a greater prat no doubt.
Sigh. What has happened to the UK??
. Its soooo depressing.
Sigh. What has happened to the UK??
. Its soooo depressing.
Iver
Yes BA/BAA did run tests. Talking to some of the Cabin Crew involved (i.e this is second hand) it seemed that on a least one test departure/arrival about month ago all the bags completely disappeared within the bowels of T5. After waiting for over 30 min at the belts the "crew" and "pax" were told that the baggage aspect of that particular trial was going to be ignored, they were then waved through immigration, and told "thanks very much, bye". I also understand this was not an isolated occurance during the trials...I'm sure management came up with a fix during the wash up - didn't they
Sadly having heard the stories of botched trials for a while now I don't think many of us outside the confines of Waterworld were not particularly surprised by yesterdays events..saddened yes, surprised, no. It may have helped if BA had thrown more manpower at the problem(s) but the operation has been cut back to the bone over the last few years and there is no "spare" in the system. There is no money in the pot to pay people to work the extra hours, and in the current climate very few people were prepared to give up their spare time for free.
I hope for the sake of our long suffering passengers that matters improve - quickly.
Sadly having heard the stories of botched trials for a while now I don't think many of us outside the confines of Waterworld were not particularly surprised by yesterdays events..saddened yes, surprised, no. It may have helped if BA had thrown more manpower at the problem(s) but the operation has been cut back to the bone over the last few years and there is no "spare" in the system. There is no money in the pot to pay people to work the extra hours, and in the current climate very few people were prepared to give up their spare time for free.
I hope for the sake of our long suffering passengers that matters improve - quickly.
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Some good news for BA?
MOL is probably wetting himself with laughter over this, it certainly deflecting attention away from him.
2. No clever adverts in the press today from MOL.
3. Jamie Bowen being quite nice
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Slagged off !
I was slagged off on this forum after I had done the T5 trial.
One of my main points was that the trials were nowhere near
realistic enough.
Lots of people ticking the right boxes in the answer page already
given to them. Nobody doing the unusual or making waves.
It has obviously not been rigorous enough, and was the usual
management trying to fix things into the date they had proposed.
The baggage handlers couldn't get past security. Couldn't log into
their computers etc etc.
What happened to the dry run to make sure things work ?
"Oooh mustn't say this is crap and not working properly because
I will lose 'Brownie Points' with my manager, such a nice man!"
I wonder if they have improved the sighting and size of the
flight departure information yet ?
Don't worry chaps, it'll be alright on the night.
Fred Karno BA/BAA
One of my main points was that the trials were nowhere near
realistic enough.
Lots of people ticking the right boxes in the answer page already
given to them. Nobody doing the unusual or making waves.
It has obviously not been rigorous enough, and was the usual
management trying to fix things into the date they had proposed.
The baggage handlers couldn't get past security. Couldn't log into
their computers etc etc.
What happened to the dry run to make sure things work ?
"Oooh mustn't say this is crap and not working properly because
I will lose 'Brownie Points' with my manager, such a nice man!"
I wonder if they have improved the sighting and size of the
flight departure information yet ?
Don't worry chaps, it'll be alright on the night.
Fred Karno BA/BAA
Last edited by Hermano Lobo; 28th Mar 2008 at 14:32. Reason: Typo
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Wow, this thread is famous
Favourite quote came from a few pages back...
Same old circus, just in a new tent
Fantastic!!
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Wow, this thread is famous! It's just been shown on BBC News 24.
Followed by Max Clifford.
"On a range of 1-10 where does T5 situation rate ?" " 12 !!!"
He suggested the launch should have been delayed until the start of next month, then all could see the joke.
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Sounds like the standard British disease of 'a ship being ruined for the want of a ha'perth of tar'.
You can just imagine the scenario..... some middle manager in a sub-committee saying 'no we don't need that backup device, so we can save ourselves a tenner', 'we can use a paperwork mitigation by saying we train the staff to a high level that makes such backups un-necessary' He then wanders off and gets a pat on the back by his seniors for saving the company a tenner. The next middle manager then saves a tenner by cutting back on training costs and gets his pat on the back from his seniors.
I bet the public never get a satisfctory explanation of what actually caused all this. Just a load of management speak from a PR prat who has been paid three tenners to come up with a cover up.
(for our foreign readers a 'tenner' is roughly 10 GBP, in other words an insignificant amount.)
You can just imagine the scenario..... some middle manager in a sub-committee saying 'no we don't need that backup device, so we can save ourselves a tenner', 'we can use a paperwork mitigation by saying we train the staff to a high level that makes such backups un-necessary' He then wanders off and gets a pat on the back by his seniors for saving the company a tenner. The next middle manager then saves a tenner by cutting back on training costs and gets his pat on the back from his seniors.
I bet the public never get a satisfctory explanation of what actually caused all this. Just a load of management speak from a PR prat who has been paid three tenners to come up with a cover up.
(for our foreign readers a 'tenner' is roughly 10 GBP, in other words an insignificant amount.)
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I'm still amazed that "teething problems" are being blamed for the cancellation of, as it was yestersday I believe, 36 or more flights.
Surely it would not have been too hard to make sure primary systems (i.e. baggage belts!) were actually in proper working order?
I feel very sorry for the first passengers going through all this. I bet they're wishing they were back in T3 or whatever...but I suppose it's a lesser of two evils
Surely it would not have been too hard to make sure primary systems (i.e. baggage belts!) were actually in proper working order?
I feel very sorry for the first passengers going through all this. I bet they're wishing they were back in T3 or whatever...but I suppose it's a lesser of two evils
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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If you want a really good laugh have a look at:
http://www.terminal5.ba.com/en/
Reminds me of that song:
Little Willy, Willy wears the crown, he's the king around town
Dancing, glancing
Willy drives them silly with his star shoe shimmy shuffle down
Way past one, and feeling alright
'Cause with little Willy round they can last all night
Hey down, stay down, stay down down
Enough said.
http://www.terminal5.ba.com/en/
Reminds me of that song:
Little Willy, Willy wears the crown, he's the king around town
Dancing, glancing
Willy drives them silly with his star shoe shimmy shuffle down
Way past one, and feeling alright
'Cause with little Willy round they can last all night
Hey down, stay down, stay down down
Enough said.
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It seems the baggage belts were working. In fact it appears most of the infrastructure is fine. The problem appears to be cost cutting on the people front, with BAA not providing enough security staff to allow BA to get enough people in, and then when BA got the people in they hadn't trained them well enough. I'm sure 'Manager T5 training' got a good bonus for keeping his budget down.
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The T5 Mantra
Just incase the script gets removed from the BA T5 site, here it is posted for all of the WWW immortality. You may laugh at your leisure. Mr Walsh, it's time you got your coat, oh and take that Gareth Deadwood chap with you on your way out.
BA Terminal 5 mantra:
'At London Heathrow Terminal 5 we’ve created a natural, logical journey that’s so calm, you’ll flow through. It should only take ten minutes to get from check-in to departures *. Transferring and arriving are just as simple and calm. Spend the time you save enjoying the excellent range of shops, cafes and restaurants. Or simply relax and be wowed by the world class architecture.'
BA Terminal 5 mantra:
'At London Heathrow Terminal 5 we’ve created a natural, logical journey that’s so calm, you’ll flow through. It should only take ten minutes to get from check-in to departures *. Transferring and arriving are just as simple and calm. Spend the time you save enjoying the excellent range of shops, cafes and restaurants. Or simply relax and be wowed by the world class architecture.'
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T5 Alternative mantra
T5 Alternative mantra:
At London Heathrow Terminal 5 we’ve created a natural bag jam, an illogical journey that’s so frustrating, your blood will literally boil. It should only take ten days to get from check-in to departures *. Transferring and arriving are just as bad and stressful. Spend the time stuck in T5 enjoying the excellent range of shops, cafes and restaurants. (all fully functional) Or simply relax and be wowed by the world class green house we built to store your baggage.
*That's if we can't cancel your flight before you get there
At London Heathrow Terminal 5 we’ve created a natural bag jam, an illogical journey that’s so frustrating, your blood will literally boil. It should only take ten days to get from check-in to departures *. Transferring and arriving are just as bad and stressful. Spend the time stuck in T5 enjoying the excellent range of shops, cafes and restaurants. (all fully functional) Or simply relax and be wowed by the world class green house we built to store your baggage.
*That's if we can't cancel your flight before you get there