MANSTON -3
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: thanet
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Well I think we all realise that selling tickets at £1 was certain suicide for EUjet, but I shouldnt think anyone would expect an experienced carrier to be that stupid. If the price set was a little above the cost from the big three then I am sure people would be prepaired to pay, I for one would !!
I am off to glorious Stansted in a couple of weeks really looking forward to the 2 hour drive finding the parking space waiting for the bus to take me to the terminal and I love the 2 hour check in time, takes longer to get on the plane than the flight to Spain.
I know the flights to Murcia were popular and some of the other destinations, and a lot of the others were a dead loss but its not hard to pick the good from the bad. Smaller planes and the right name behind them I feel sure could make a go of it.
Having said all that if my memory serves me right, Infratil said right from the start that they were not too interested in the passenger side of things and that they would concentrate on cargo, so perhaps I am clutching at staws.
I am off to glorious Stansted in a couple of weeks really looking forward to the 2 hour drive finding the parking space waiting for the bus to take me to the terminal and I love the 2 hour check in time, takes longer to get on the plane than the flight to Spain.
I know the flights to Murcia were popular and some of the other destinations, and a lot of the others were a dead loss but its not hard to pick the good from the bad. Smaller planes and the right name behind them I feel sure could make a go of it.
Having said all that if my memory serves me right, Infratil said right from the start that they were not too interested in the passenger side of things and that they would concentrate on cargo, so perhaps I am clutching at staws.
It may well be worth investing in improving the infrastructure for this event, as it would certainly be paid back over the next 4 years, then you would have an airport which would finally realise it's potential.
BTW, what investment would be needed?? There's a long runway, cargo handling facilities etc already in place. I don't think the infrastructure is holding anything back.
Also, I think you need to look at a map. Of course there will be economic activity associated with the olympics site, but I can't see that Manston is particularly well placed to capitalise. There's a big container port just a little way downstream and three airports closer to Stratford than Manston, two of which already have public transport connections.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: whitstable
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Paradism said: Conversely Deedave, it will allow scheduled flights from Manston to anywhere else within the limitations of their AOC.
Same question I asked on the MK thread: Is there a possibility they could be looking to launch pax services?
Same question I asked on the MK thread: Is there a possibility they could be looking to launch pax services?
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
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How do you make a small profit in the airline business? - Start off with a very big one.
All this talk of "investing £100K each" in a new airline to operate from MSE is a tad optomistic and even naieve, even if you had 10 people foolish enough to part with that sort of cash (which you wouldn't), you'd run out of money within a month.
A service airport for the 2012 Olympics? Dream on!
MSE barely has sufficiant terminal facilities for current trade, there's no Government subsidy available for developing airports for the 2012 Olympics, nor is private cash likely to be forthcoming.
If you assume that someone was daft enough to operate into MSE for 2012, how would the passengers get to the Olympic site? The existing transport infrastucture is completely inadequate, and like the airport investment, no one in their right mind is going to invest for a one off event which will show no return afterwards.
Someone mentioned Robin Hood - there's a significant difference there - Robin Hood is owned and operated by a company with far greater business skills than Intratril.
Peel saw the opportunity, bought the site, went out and got the best part of £80m of European money, put in a significant wedge of their own cash in and have come up with an airport which in the long term, will make money for the investors.
They face significant competition from other regional airports but still are making signifcant progress, MSE has, in theory a much larger passenger catchment area, but has failed to capitalise upon it's opportunities.
The
only
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I fear you may be slighlty clutching at straws manston man, although stranger things have happened in aviation!
A Change of name and application to run scheduled services . . . but you're probably right.
A Change of name and application to run scheduled services . . . but you're probably right.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Isle of Thanet
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Freddie Laker might have said it, and many others probably did, but
"industry executives like to cite former American Airlines chief Bob Crandall, who once apocryphally offered that the best way to make a small fortune in flying was to start out with a big one."
"industry executives like to cite former American Airlines chief Bob Crandall, who once apocryphally offered that the best way to make a small fortune in flying was to start out with a big one."
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Glad to see that negativity is alive and kicking on the thread.
Also pleased to see that some posters ae still able to take quotes out of context.
I assume Deedave was being sarchastic when he said,
"A bit of remortgaging, and an input of 100K each, and you have a nice little syndicate."
Jetscream said that the local syndicate was for pre operational stage only backed up by a city investment.
But you are correct Nik Nak a few hundred thousand, even a million would be gone in a very short space of time.
I would take issue with your condemnation of Infratil in terms of their business skills as they seem to be doing OK in NZ.
I would agree that it would be impossible to obtain a Government grant to develop an airport for the 2012 Olympics, but I do not undetstand your statement that the terminal facilities are barely enough for current trade. The terminal facilities are exactly the same as tey were when EUjet were operating and that coped with 350,000 pax!
I do believe that a small, well managed, non ego based, lean operation with tight financial controls and strong backing would be successful at MSE, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
MDIS
Also pleased to see that some posters ae still able to take quotes out of context.
I assume Deedave was being sarchastic when he said,
"A bit of remortgaging, and an input of 100K each, and you have a nice little syndicate."
Jetscream said that the local syndicate was for pre operational stage only backed up by a city investment.
But you are correct Nik Nak a few hundred thousand, even a million would be gone in a very short space of time.
I would take issue with your condemnation of Infratil in terms of their business skills as they seem to be doing OK in NZ.
I would agree that it would be impossible to obtain a Government grant to develop an airport for the 2012 Olympics, but I do not undetstand your statement that the terminal facilities are barely enough for current trade. The terminal facilities are exactly the same as tey were when EUjet were operating and that coped with 350,000 pax!
I do believe that a small, well managed, non ego based, lean operation with tight financial controls and strong backing would be successful at MSE, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
MDIS
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I do believe that a small, well managed, non ego based, lean operation with tight financial controls and strong backing would be successful at MSE, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
Exactly - nothing more to add other than an airport name change - who's interested?
Exactly - nothing more to add other than an airport name change - who's interested?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
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Quote-
"I assume deedave was being sarcastic when he said - "a bit of remortgaging and an input of £100k each, and you have a nice little syndicate.""
I most certainly was not.
I would not touch Manston with a penny of my own money, but there are people who regularly visit this forum to tell us that Manston is "on the up".
Jetscream is now offering you the opportunity to back this up with hard cash.
So, in all seriousness, I ask again -
Who's in ?
.
"I assume deedave was being sarcastic when he said - "a bit of remortgaging and an input of £100k each, and you have a nice little syndicate.""
I most certainly was not.
I would not touch Manston with a penny of my own money, but there are people who regularly visit this forum to tell us that Manston is "on the up".
Jetscream is now offering you the opportunity to back this up with hard cash.
So, in all seriousness, I ask again -
Who's in ?
.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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From the start I am not making a case for manston, I just think that in the case of problems at a major airport like the 777 at heathrow, when ATC needs to put aircraft down, you do need to have places where large jet's can land.
Pehaps it should get some assistance for just that reason.
Pehaps it should get some assistance for just that reason.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: BIRCHINGTON KENT
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al
what ever you may think ,Manston will become a major airport,like it or not ,it can only be a good thing for Thanet we all need air travel,and an ideal place for cargo,a lot of people have places in Spain and need to get there quickly.
I hope this will be taken constructively rather than negatively.
Your enthusiasm for your local airport is in many ways commendable. However, I've been hearing bold predictions about how Manston will quite definitely become a major airport, "like it or not" for as long as I can remember, and the truth is that they have continually fallen well short of reality.
Yes, a lot of people do have places in Spain. But certainly not enough, in Thanet, to make Manston a "major airport". Probably not even enough for a single daily rotation.
The unfortunate truth is that Manston is not in an advantageous location. Too far from London to realistically be a London airport, yet sufficiently close that the actual London airports, with a huge range of destinations and regular & frequent flights are within reasonable travelling distance of East Kent. 70% of the catchment area in the sea. The new CTRL making high speed rail an increasingly attractive alternative for short haul European travel. The list goes on.
Certainly, there is a market to be served in East Kent. But a limited market, made even more limited once much of it has drifted off to Gatwick and Stansted. And that remaining passenger base can only be viably serviced (IMO) by a similarly modest airline operation. I think Jetscream talked of an outfit carrying 100,000 pax annually to a restricted range of destinations after several years of development, which seems sensible to me.
I do agree with you on one point. I think Manston can continue to develop, and ultimately prosper as a freight airport, and seems to be making steady progress in this respect.
Your enthusiasm for your local airport is in many ways commendable. However, I've been hearing bold predictions about how Manston will quite definitely become a major airport, "like it or not" for as long as I can remember, and the truth is that they have continually fallen well short of reality.
Yes, a lot of people do have places in Spain. But certainly not enough, in Thanet, to make Manston a "major airport". Probably not even enough for a single daily rotation.
The unfortunate truth is that Manston is not in an advantageous location. Too far from London to realistically be a London airport, yet sufficiently close that the actual London airports, with a huge range of destinations and regular & frequent flights are within reasonable travelling distance of East Kent. 70% of the catchment area in the sea. The new CTRL making high speed rail an increasingly attractive alternative for short haul European travel. The list goes on.
Certainly, there is a market to be served in East Kent. But a limited market, made even more limited once much of it has drifted off to Gatwick and Stansted. And that remaining passenger base can only be viably serviced (IMO) by a similarly modest airline operation. I think Jetscream talked of an outfit carrying 100,000 pax annually to a restricted range of destinations after several years of development, which seems sensible to me.
I do agree with you on one point. I think Manston can continue to develop, and ultimately prosper as a freight airport, and seems to be making steady progress in this respect.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Investment
To clarify, Jetscream is asking for investors in an "Airline" and not in Manston Airport which I am led to believe is already owned by Infratil and is not for sale!!!!!
DD you say that you bankrolled Manston before and as I commented I assume that you mean you purchased shares in Planestation which subsequently purchased the stock of EUjet. You like a lot of other people believed in the management and the potential, however, we were wrong and lost a few quid. Jetscream would appear to know the inner workings of MSE prior to EUjet and seems to have the contacts in the industry which may be a runner subject to the business plan and therefore backing.
Be very clear, any new airline would be a customer of the airport and would pay landing fees and handling charges. It would neither own nor be owned by the airport
I for one would potentially throw my hat into the ring.
MDIS
DD you say that you bankrolled Manston before and as I commented I assume that you mean you purchased shares in Planestation which subsequently purchased the stock of EUjet. You like a lot of other people believed in the management and the potential, however, we were wrong and lost a few quid. Jetscream would appear to know the inner workings of MSE prior to EUjet and seems to have the contacts in the industry which may be a runner subject to the business plan and therefore backing.
Be very clear, any new airline would be a customer of the airport and would pay landing fees and handling charges. It would neither own nor be owned by the airport
I for one would potentially throw my hat into the ring.
MDIS
Join Date: Nov 2001
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All airline business plans are written to full fare costings and ops costs - ie we run a spreadsheet on the published tariff - and screw the airports like hell to make the bottom line better but never bank on it.
All of the routes/airports i would like to run - offer a thing called "New route incentives"
The Incentive
If an Airline introduces a Route that is not currently served from the Airport then an All-Inclusive Charge will be payable for each departing Terminal Passenger. This charge will replace the Passenger Facility Charge, Passenger Security Charge, Runway Charge, Air Traffic Sservice Charge and Aircraft Parking Charge.
For Manchester the incentive is for a 3 year term it is £3 in first year 4 in second and 5 in third and full tariff thereafter.
This however does not including handling which for a turbo-prop aircraft is going to be about £200 per rotation.
Keep an eye on KM......
All of the routes/airports i would like to run - offer a thing called "New route incentives"
The Incentive
If an Airline introduces a Route that is not currently served from the Airport then an All-Inclusive Charge will be payable for each departing Terminal Passenger. This charge will replace the Passenger Facility Charge, Passenger Security Charge, Runway Charge, Air Traffic Sservice Charge and Aircraft Parking Charge.
For Manchester the incentive is for a 3 year term it is £3 in first year 4 in second and 5 in third and full tariff thereafter.
This however does not including handling which for a turbo-prop aircraft is going to be about £200 per rotation.
Keep an eye on KM......