MANSTON -3
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: KENT
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I was one of the number 1's,Cabin Crew, for Eu jet and can safely say that MAN was a profitable route along with EDI, AMS, Murcia, DUB, infact all the Spanish routes were good. However the likes of Nice were not good with only 6 paxs sometimes they felt like they had their own privat jet!!! PM me if you need any further details.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: thanet
Age: 54
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HONEYSWEETCOMBE is exactly right, i worked in dispatch in the EU-JET days and the figures were approx EDI 72 out/in every day MAN 60 out/in everyday DUB and AMS were the same, DAVEDEE is right, private pilots aren't the people you should take advise from, but then bitter money looseing shareholders aren't either. Someone at Manston must have the figures for all routes that were flown, i think you will be suprised by the numbers that did eventually(all be it EUJET had already borrowed to much money by then) use the service in the end, and also the amount of people that traveled from London, i once saw the figures and was amazed. I also was privvy to alot of customer feedback, it was suprising how many people were much more comfortable with travelling from a small airport like Manston than travelling from the big three.
EIDFZ
EIDFZ
Join Date: Jul 2007
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How great to at last hear the positive side of EUjet endeavours. Its a pity that there hasn't been more information along these lines. I wish someone would get some sort of campaign going to support the airport and to give the general public a chance to say what they want. It seems that the ante brigade always have a voice, but those of us that want to see a budget airline come to Manston, cant seem to get our act together. Perhaps if we made enough noise someone out there would listen.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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flightless,
the chances of mse getting a low cost carrier is almost nil - the market would just about cope with ryanair on a couple of routes but even that may be a long shot.
i do keep saying a little regional airline with some "w" routes would be a sensible plan but pax numbers and confidence for east kent needs to grow in a structured way - not in a way that it all falls apart becuase it has no chance of survival but sounded like it would work.
the chances of mse getting a low cost carrier is almost nil - the market would just about cope with ryanair on a couple of routes but even that may be a long shot.
i do keep saying a little regional airline with some "w" routes would be a sensible plan but pax numbers and confidence for east kent needs to grow in a structured way - not in a way that it all falls apart becuase it has no chance of survival but sounded like it would work.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I agree with your point jetscream but how can pax numbers and confidence grow if there is nothing on offer. We all have our own opinions as to why EUjet failed, starting up on borrowed money is never a good idea and taking on to much to soon I think was thier downfall, but, they did have some success, surely one of the big boys have the courage to put thier toe in the water and try. You cant build on something that isn't there, the longer Manston sits in the shadow of what happened with EUjet the more apathetic the public become.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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they do - but you must remember the reason eu jet failed was because they only had one type of aircraft, and that aircraft was tooo big for the local market to cope with.
the infrastructure costs associated with that type of aircraft and operation never had a chance of survival from day 1 - and being as im the one that put all the other airline deals on the table only to have them rejected beacuse they were too small.........
Oliver Iny in the boardroom at barking mad square in london..... We dont want propellors we only want jets - and they will pay.....
At that point i tendered my resignation.......
the infrastructure costs associated with that type of aircraft and operation never had a chance of survival from day 1 - and being as im the one that put all the other airline deals on the table only to have them rejected beacuse they were too small.........
Oliver Iny in the boardroom at barking mad square in london..... We dont want propellors we only want jets - and they will pay.....
At that point i tendered my resignation.......
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canterbury
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Turbo props
Just look at SOU when they started, albeit with a larger catchment area before any one else says it.
Manx operating as BA Express with 4 J41's and a Manchester based ATR once a day.
Routes were GLA, EDI, BRU, JER, CGI and IOM at weekends. Brymon and Air France operated to CDG and KLM Cityhopper to AMS.
When the market had been proved on the J41s and customer demand had risen sufficiently the aircraft were upgraded to 50 seat Embraers on some of the routes.
This should be the way to approach MSE.
MDIS
Manx operating as BA Express with 4 J41's and a Manchester based ATR once a day.
Routes were GLA, EDI, BRU, JER, CGI and IOM at weekends. Brymon and Air France operated to CDG and KLM Cityhopper to AMS.
When the market had been proved on the J41s and customer demand had risen sufficiently the aircraft were upgraded to 50 seat Embraers on some of the routes.
This should be the way to approach MSE.
MDIS
those of us that want to see a budget airline come to Manston, cant seem to get our act together.
With respect, budget airlines aren't remotely interested in whether you can "get your act together". They are only interested in whether they can make money.
I can't speak for individual EUjet routes, but taken as a whole the average loading over the route structure they operated rarely exceeded 40% (this was clearly demonstrated by the CAA statistics for Manston).
Also, passenger loads and passenger yields are quite different. With the greatest of respect to the people who worked at the airport and for the airline, cabin crew and dispatchers may be better informed than anyone about the number of passengers on board the aircraft, but unless you actually see the detailed financial breakdown of what they're paying vs what the costs are then you're not getting the full picture.
There are many lessons to be learnt from the EUjet debacle, which I don't propose to repeat. But the biggest one, unfortunately, is that Manston doesn't appear able to support a large scale budget airline base. I remember after EUjet folded there were confident predictions that other airlines, having seen what worked, would quickly move in to cherry pick the best routes. We're still waiting.
Jetscream IMO talks sense in describing a more modest proposal, based on a niche operation primarily serving the business traveller and starting with a limited number of routes. Even then, I wonder if sweeteners would be required to attract such an operator.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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im that confident i would do it myself - if i could find a small local syndicate that wanted to bank-roll the pre-operational stage.... however with a STN based airline shortly to be suspended from the stock market - the raising of capital for airline start ups is always difficult.... however not impossible for the right business plan.... ho hum..!
Join Date: Jul 2006
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A few years ago I believed in an optimistic future for Manston so, like many others, I bankrolled the operation.
Now that I understand the realities of this part of the world a little better I can see that commercially viable civil aviation at Manston is not meant to be.
Clearly there are are other visitors to this thread who disagree.
However, back then I was willing to "put my money where my mouth is".
Jetscream is now offering you the opportunity to do the same.
A bit of remortgaging, and an input of 100K each, and you have a nice little syndicate.
Who's first?
.
Now that I understand the realities of this part of the world a little better I can see that commercially viable civil aviation at Manston is not meant to be.
Clearly there are are other visitors to this thread who disagree.
However, back then I was willing to "put my money where my mouth is".
Jetscream is now offering you the opportunity to do the same.
A bit of remortgaging, and an input of 100K each, and you have a nice little syndicate.
Who's first?
.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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thats what hedging is for...... and being as its a new start up - its easy to build your plan on the current price rather than getting in the poo with an existing plan that never accounted for such a hike.. !!
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Bankrolling
DD
Do you mean that you bought some shares?
There was me thinking as I look at the correspondence from Grant Thornton that it was the bank that bank rolled the operation.
Lots of people lost money on the shares but do not consider they bank rolled the operation.
If you are so certain the operation being suggested is guaranteed to fail keep your cash in your pocket.
If it fails you can say "I told you so" and you wont have lost any money
If it succeeds perhaps you will be tempted to buy in later!
No one is forcing you!!
MDIS
Do you mean that you bought some shares?
There was me thinking as I look at the correspondence from Grant Thornton that it was the bank that bank rolled the operation.
Lots of people lost money on the shares but do not consider they bank rolled the operation.
If you are so certain the operation being suggested is guaranteed to fail keep your cash in your pocket.
If it fails you can say "I told you so" and you wont have lost any money
If it succeeds perhaps you will be tempted to buy in later!
No one is forcing you!!
MDIS
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Infratil reports 3729 tonnes of freight at Manston in January. Down 9% on last month, up 32% on last January. No mention of passenger plans.
Also on freight, it appears MK, now that they have UK AOC, have applied to the CAA "to operate scheduled flights between any combination of points within the holders Air Operators Certificate"
Presumably this will enable them to deliver loads to airports closer to their destination, without having to default to Manston followed by a long road trip.
Also on freight, it appears MK, now that they have UK AOC, have applied to the CAA "to operate scheduled flights between any combination of points within the holders Air Operators Certificate"
Presumably this will enable them to deliver loads to airports closer to their destination, without having to default to Manston followed by a long road trip.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Seeing as BAA have stated that the 'new' East terminal (old terminals 1 and 2) will not be ready for the 2012 Olympics, this would be a perfect opportunity for Manston and an airline to step in and establish themselves. There are going to be alot of people and things to be moved in the S/E over the next 4 years, and as long as the infrastructure is efficient to get into London, this could be the making of Manston. It may well be worth investing in improving the infrastructure for this event, as it would certainly be paid back over the next 4 years, then you would have an airport which would finally realise it's potential. And maybe Thanet's potential.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Its a pity that the local council wont give the same support to MSE as the council in Notts. look at the success of Robin Hood airport. from a run down ex-RAF base to a successful, modern pax facility in no time at all.
and you are right to piont out that although certain flights from manston were above average load, it is the profit from those routes that count, not the load, some tickets were sold at £1. with a full load this might equate to £106 per movement, not profitable at all.
manston must have full backing of local council, banks and a succesfull lo-co
company to thrive. unfortunately we thought this would happen within a few months of the demise of eujet, still waiting............
and you are right to piont out that although certain flights from manston were above average load, it is the profit from those routes that count, not the load, some tickets were sold at £1. with a full load this might equate to £106 per movement, not profitable at all.
manston must have full backing of local council, banks and a succesfull lo-co
company to thrive. unfortunately we thought this would happen within a few months of the demise of eujet, still waiting............
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Thanet Council and KCC have bent over backwards to accommodate MSE since day one.
It is only recently that this support has begune to wane.
Also, Kelly, with respect, if you really think a full Fokker can equate to revenue of only £106 then you need to learn a little more about lo-co pricing structures.
It is only recently that this support has begune to wane.
Also, Kelly, with respect, if you really think a full Fokker can equate to revenue of only £106 then you need to learn a little more about lo-co pricing structures.