MANSTON -3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cornwall/ soon Kent
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any future in Manston
Can anyone tell me if there is any future for low cost passenger scheduled traffic from Manston after the demise of EUJet. ie with J41 or ATR42 on the following:-
say MSE-MAN MSE-AMS MSE-DUB MSE-PARIS MSE-JER
MSE-NCL MSE-EDI MSE-PIK ???? or any other routes.
What are peoples feelings on a new conservative operator which is marketed properly and well funded. Start small with organic growth with proper equipment.
say MSE-MAN MSE-AMS MSE-DUB MSE-PARIS MSE-JER
MSE-NCL MSE-EDI MSE-PIK ???? or any other routes.
What are peoples feelings on a new conservative operator which is marketed properly and well funded. Start small with organic growth with proper equipment.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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al
i personally think we need a service like e.u. jet offered but this time build up to a good reliable company.and dont spend your profits before you make them.good to see someone in Cornwall is interested in manston. everything you said makes sense .regardless of negative comments.
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Manston Airport Future
We were looking into the possibility of J41's or ATR42's with a limited structure of say four or five routes to start with, being that this is mainly a "gut feeling" forum I was looking for ppls inputs.
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Dublin, Edinburgh and Amsterdam would be the three I would choose to run if all were served with an early morning and late evening service. Eujet were planning to run an ATR on some of these routes.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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from another Cornish poster.......
how about an airline such as WOW using DH8-300's for some select services for instance they already have handleing contracts in place at the likes of DUB, GLA, NQY, NCL, JER etc
how about an airline such as WOW using DH8-300's for some select services for instance they already have handleing contracts in place at the likes of DUB, GLA, NQY, NCL, JER etc
Join Date: Aug 2005
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eddieukuk
Clearly there is a demand for air travel from MSE, EUjet demonstrated that. It was generally accepted that they used the wrong aircraft and did not dump their low load factor routes quickly enough. There was a lot of discussion of the Planestation/EUjet combo, not only on this site but also on financial websites which may be worthwhile for your research.
Despite what others may say, I have relatives who regularly used the MSE/Spain services and others who used the Manchester/MSE route whilst living in Cumbria. The MSE/MAN route was no more expensive than rail and was a lot more convenient. The crucial aspect was the saving of the London rail interchange. I know that one journey was 42 minutes flight time whereas the train London to Thanet took significantly longer.
Good luck to you if you go ahead.
Clearly there is a demand for air travel from MSE, EUjet demonstrated that. It was generally accepted that they used the wrong aircraft and did not dump their low load factor routes quickly enough. There was a lot of discussion of the Planestation/EUjet combo, not only on this site but also on financial websites which may be worthwhile for your research.
Despite what others may say, I have relatives who regularly used the MSE/Spain services and others who used the Manchester/MSE route whilst living in Cumbria. The MSE/MAN route was no more expensive than rail and was a lot more convenient. The crucial aspect was the saving of the London rail interchange. I know that one journey was 42 minutes flight time whereas the train London to Thanet took significantly longer.
Good luck to you if you go ahead.
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As a resident of SE London I would love to fly from MSE again, but it will only be on a reliable airline that can publish a timetable and stick to it.
My experience with EU Jet was a trip to Nice where they pulled forward the return flight time without telling anyone and I only just made check in, followed by a day return to Amsterdam when they cut back to a single daily flight I cancelled and got my refund just before they went bust.
The Kent Escapes farce last year with that MD80 has also left them and by association the airport with a tarnished reputation.
Perhaps the airport need to do a deal whereby the reductions in landing fees are in the form of a rebate following satisfactory performance and in the case of a KLM feeder to Amsterdam the passengers bags turning up on the same flight.
My experience with EU Jet was a trip to Nice where they pulled forward the return flight time without telling anyone and I only just made check in, followed by a day return to Amsterdam when they cut back to a single daily flight I cancelled and got my refund just before they went bust.
The Kent Escapes farce last year with that MD80 has also left them and by association the airport with a tarnished reputation.
Perhaps the airport need to do a deal whereby the reductions in landing fees are in the form of a rebate following satisfactory performance and in the case of a KLM feeder to Amsterdam the passengers bags turning up on the same flight.
niknak
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Eastern don't do low cost operations, it's unlikely that they'd be interested in operating from Manston unless certain guarantees were in place and there was a proven demand for their type of service, although Manchester is a possibility.
The only realistic operator to AMS is KLM or VLM, as has been suggested previously the majority of AMS passengers from UK regional airports are interlining onward and no other operator can afford to provide such a service.
I've no doubt that low cost to Dublin and probably Edinburgh/Glasgow would sell like hot cakes, it's purely a matter of attracting the likes of Flybe, possibly Ryanair and that's no easy task given their demands.
Now that Eurostar have pulled direct services to Brussels from the UK, a BRU service may work, but competition elsewhere may put the kybosh on that.
As with many routes elsewhere, when one starts up, others follow, hopefully that will be the case here.
The only realistic operator to AMS is KLM or VLM, as has been suggested previously the majority of AMS passengers from UK regional airports are interlining onward and no other operator can afford to provide such a service.
I've no doubt that low cost to Dublin and probably Edinburgh/Glasgow would sell like hot cakes, it's purely a matter of attracting the likes of Flybe, possibly Ryanair and that's no easy task given their demands.
Now that Eurostar have pulled direct services to Brussels from the UK, a BRU service may work, but competition elsewhere may put the kybosh on that.
As with many routes elsewhere, when one starts up, others follow, hopefully that will be the case here.
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eddie,
sounds like you have the business plan i wrote for MSE 7 years ago - j41 or atr-42 is the perfect a/c for mse, first year pax numbers 30,000 rising to peak of 80-100,000 after 4/5 years - primarily business routes, with avg sector times of 75 mins, avg fare price of 99 each way.
not all your routes i would fly, but some certainly
i had contract negotiations with pfizer and cummins and saga as well as several others.
Eastern would fly any route i wanted as long as we underwrote them and basically guaranteed the route financially, the fat controller denied.......
KLM came to table - the fat controller denied..... VLM said no due to dilution of LCY pax base.
if your serious about operating from mse then i will stop what im doing, as i have started revisiting my original plans - to set this up....
great minds think alike.....
cheers
sounds like you have the business plan i wrote for MSE 7 years ago - j41 or atr-42 is the perfect a/c for mse, first year pax numbers 30,000 rising to peak of 80-100,000 after 4/5 years - primarily business routes, with avg sector times of 75 mins, avg fare price of 99 each way.
not all your routes i would fly, but some certainly
i had contract negotiations with pfizer and cummins and saga as well as several others.
Eastern would fly any route i wanted as long as we underwrote them and basically guaranteed the route financially, the fat controller denied.......
KLM came to table - the fat controller denied..... VLM said no due to dilution of LCY pax base.
if your serious about operating from mse then i will stop what im doing, as i have started revisiting my original plans - to set this up....
great minds think alike.....
cheers
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Thank you
Thanks for the candid responses. Does anyone know anything about J31's to be really conservative about load factors.
ie MSE-AMS MSE-MAN-DUB ??
Any more ideas ??
ie MSE-AMS MSE-MAN-DUB ??
Any more ideas ??
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Thanks for the candid responses. Does anyone know anything about J31's to be really conservative about load factors.
ie MSE-AMS MSE-MAN-DUB ??
Any more ideas ??
There's over 700,000 (and rising - fast) East Europeans living here . . . . and the weekend party crowd would be interested in some of those destinations too.
ie MSE-AMS MSE-MAN-DUB ??
Any more ideas ??
There's over 700,000 (and rising - fast) East Europeans living here . . . . and the weekend party crowd would be interested in some of those destinations too.
Last edited by manstonman; 11th Feb 2008 at 05:42.
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eddieukuk
Asking the opinions of local private pilots regarding commercial route possibilities seems an odd choice.
With the greatest respect to fellow posters, most ppl's and other visitors to this forum have vested interests - primarily keeping the runway open so they can continue to pursue their hobby.
If you really want to assess the situation, you should should visit East Kent for a couple of weeks and research the social and economic climate here. I would also recommend you spend an afternoon studying previous pprune Manston threads in detail.
As someone who has financed Manston in the past I would offer the following advice.
The global economic situation has changed substantially for the worse since EUjet days, and that change continues.
Locally, while there are a number of new local initiatives in place, there have been substantial employment and business losses in the last 5 years, and you will not find these reported on this thread. Also, the hitherto vigorous and vocal political support for MSE seems to have evaporated.
The fiscal prognosis for a regional like Manston remains poor.
What is more important than aircraft type and routes, is your source of funding.
"Manston" and "profit" have never occupied the same sentence so you will need money and lots of it. Infratil have certainly underwritten operations in the past, although whether they would do this for a turboprop operation I do not know.
If you have managed to find other people interested in sustaining indefinite losses in a "vanity" operation, then well done and good luck.
One thing I have learned is that there are people who are more interested in the thrill of putting aircraft into the sky than turning a profit, and Manston may continue to function on this basis for many years.
Asking the opinions of local private pilots regarding commercial route possibilities seems an odd choice.
With the greatest respect to fellow posters, most ppl's and other visitors to this forum have vested interests - primarily keeping the runway open so they can continue to pursue their hobby.
If you really want to assess the situation, you should should visit East Kent for a couple of weeks and research the social and economic climate here. I would also recommend you spend an afternoon studying previous pprune Manston threads in detail.
As someone who has financed Manston in the past I would offer the following advice.
The global economic situation has changed substantially for the worse since EUjet days, and that change continues.
Locally, while there are a number of new local initiatives in place, there have been substantial employment and business losses in the last 5 years, and you will not find these reported on this thread. Also, the hitherto vigorous and vocal political support for MSE seems to have evaporated.
The fiscal prognosis for a regional like Manston remains poor.
What is more important than aircraft type and routes, is your source of funding.
"Manston" and "profit" have never occupied the same sentence so you will need money and lots of it. Infratil have certainly underwritten operations in the past, although whether they would do this for a turboprop operation I do not know.
If you have managed to find other people interested in sustaining indefinite losses in a "vanity" operation, then well done and good luck.
One thing I have learned is that there are people who are more interested in the thrill of putting aircraft into the sky than turning a profit, and Manston may continue to function on this basis for many years.
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Now that Eurostar have pulled direct services to Brussels from the UK, a BRU service may work, but competition elsewhere may put the kybosh on that.
[QUOTE] Despite what others may say, I have relatives who regularly used the MSE/Spain services and others who used the Manchester/MSE route whilst living in Cumbria. The MSE/MAN route was no more expensive than rail and was a lot more convenient. The crucial aspect was the saving of the London rail interchange. I know that one journey was 42 minutes flight time whereas the train London to Thanet took significantly longer.
[QUOTE]
Plus from 2009 there will be a move to shift some Thanet Railway services out of the S.London terminals to St Pancras via HSL2 - with a stop at Stratford and from there it will be a 20min or so hop to LCY. So domestically Ashford etc will come within 30mins of London.
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Eddieukuk
to back up Paradism regarding the flights to Spain (Murcia, Alicante) I also have friends and relatives that used the E.U jet flight to Murcia, I myself used them 5 times during thier short stay at Manston. You know a lot of us 'Kent Bumkins' actually own properties on the Costa Blanca so to fly from Manston was a dream. This could also explain why the take up on the the 'Benidorm Package holiday' was so poor, most of the takers on that route wanted 'Flight Only'.
I feel that 'Kent Escapes' fiasco's unfortunatly have left a big black mark against Manston, lots of people assume that 'Kent Escapes' and 'Kent International Airport' are one and the same therefore lots of moans and groans regarding the holidays are directed at Manston and not Seguro Holidays.
Some time back at one of KIA open days they did a survey that was directed at business travellers they said they would be doing one for us pleasure trippers, but as yet nothing.
I feel that 'Kent Escapes' fiasco's unfortunatly have left a big black mark against Manston, lots of people assume that 'Kent Escapes' and 'Kent International Airport' are one and the same therefore lots of moans and groans regarding the holidays are directed at Manston and not Seguro Holidays.
Some time back at one of KIA open days they did a survey that was directed at business travellers they said they would be doing one for us pleasure trippers, but as yet nothing.
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deedave
what you say is completely correct - the eu jet was farcical and i resigned over deal when it was tabled - as you cannot force bums on seats irrespective of aircraft size.
A small regional business airline operating primarily for the business market will sustain 2-5 30/42 seat aircraft with no real dramas at all - the seat price will mirror eastern airways and cannot survive if you think a loco can make it happen - it wont.
The market for mse will be niche as their is insufficient demand for a q400 so the market should be fairly secure for the incumbent operator small, high quality, efficient regional airline serving the local business community.
what you say is completely correct - the eu jet was farcical and i resigned over deal when it was tabled - as you cannot force bums on seats irrespective of aircraft size.
A small regional business airline operating primarily for the business market will sustain 2-5 30/42 seat aircraft with no real dramas at all - the seat price will mirror eastern airways and cannot survive if you think a loco can make it happen - it wont.
The market for mse will be niche as their is insufficient demand for a q400 so the market should be fairly secure for the incumbent operator small, high quality, efficient regional airline serving the local business community.