Aer Lingus - 5
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: nirvana
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I call you back
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Alpha quadrant
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The last gasps of the Irish Dinosaur!!
€81 Million loss for 2009.
But that hides the €93 Million loss for the Q1 & Q2 09. New CX and a few senior people 'seeking new ventures' later and suddenly there is a profit for Q3 & Q4 09.
Now factor in the forthcoming €97 Million cost saving (delayed Cabin Crew circa €20 Million accepted) plus the sorting out of the hedging and Gatwick fiascos during this year and we'll see about 'the last gasps of the Irish Dinosaur'. I expect a small profit for 2010 and a bigger one for 2011.
Now factor in the forthcoming €97 Million cost saving (delayed Cabin Crew circa €20 Million accepted) plus the sorting out of the hedging and Gatwick fiascos during this year and we'll see about 'the last gasps of the Irish Dinosaur'. I expect a small profit for 2010 and a bigger one for 2011.
Lets see even if they started today its highly unlikely that they could get rid of everybody on their target list by 30th of June at the earliest so the saving is not going to happen in full this year, lucky to get 1/3 of it.
Fact is with holidays and other stuff that would need to be paid any saving would be small.
However given that Aer Lingus seems to have reduced its cash pile by 50% in a year and its passenger numbers will be on the decline for rest of the year plus low fares then you have to wonder whether it will actually have the cash going forward.
It spend €100-120 Million in getting rid of staff last year and it will possible be something along that lines again so its issue now is whether it has enough cash going forward.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Devon
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Racedo, we all know you are a rabid FR fan. However, please get an element of factual accuracy into your comments. EI's free cash has fallen from €1,090m at December 2008 to €770m at December 2009 - per my mathematics, that is a drop of 29%, not 50%.
Interestingly, EI has net cash (after deducting all its borrowings) of €336m at December 2009. This compares to net debt in FR at the same date of €(7m). Strange you never comment on this.
Interestingly, EI has net cash (after deducting all its borrowings) of €336m at December 2009. This compares to net debt in FR at the same date of €(7m). Strange you never comment on this.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Racedo, we all know you are a rabid FR fan. However, please get an element of factual accuracy into your comments. EI's free cash has fallen from €1,090m at December 2008 to €770m at December 2009 - per my mathematics, that is a drop of 29%, not 50%.
Interestingly, EI has net cash (after deducting all its borrowings) of €336m at December 2009. This compares to net debt in FR at the same date of €(7m). Strange you never comment on this.
Interestingly, EI has net cash (after deducting all its borrowings) of €336m at December 2009. This compares to net debt in FR at the same date of €(7m). Strange you never comment on this.
Gross Cash 2008 - €1206.8 M
Gross Cash 2009 - €828.5 M
Gross Debt 2008 - €552.9 M
Gross Debt 2009 - €492.6 M
Cash - Debt 2008 €653.9 M
Cash - Debt 2009 €335.9 M
Decline in Cash 48.7 % or rounded up to 50% DECLINE.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Crawley
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have posted many times before about the disaster that EIN has become. Look them up. It is all becoming so REAL. Cash is pouring out of the business at the speed of light, and they are still playing politics with SIPTU and Hangar 6. The pilots who invested in the company have been ruined and still the Irish government does nothing. Redundanices in EIN and recruitment in RYR and the government prefers the former. It beggars belief.
EIN is a shambles and RYR is the most ruthlesslely efficient airline the world has ever known. Yet the government prefers shambles.
I will, happily advise the Irish govt for free what a disaster they are pursuing. I will save them millions. Just send me an email.
EIN is a shambles and RYR is the most ruthlesslely efficient airline the world has ever known. Yet the government prefers shambles.
I will, happily advise the Irish govt for free what a disaster they are pursuing. I will save them millions. Just send me an email.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Middle of Somewhere..
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all,
A couple of points from my point of view on the current state and future of Aer Lingus based on recent developments and the trading update issued today.
1. Hangar 6 debacle was a FR and Irish government debacle and Aer Lingus were right to stay as far out of the issue as possible.
2. The rate of cash burn at Aer Lingus has decreased dramatically. The delaying of aircraft delivereis to the 2011 to 2015 timeframe will aid this.
3. The airline made an operating profit of €12 million in the second half of this year. In Q4 alone (1/1/10 - 31/3/10), Ryanair are predicted to make a loss of c. €100 million based upon the Q3 results and the profit guidance given to the markets. Most of this loss is due to MOL's obsession with growth at the expense of yield and consequently shareholder value. Aer Lingus will instead maintains a stable fleet size and consequently won't need to drop yield as dramatically as FR does to maintain load factor.
4. Aer Lingus is finally being run by a chairman and chief executive with understanding of the business and a breadth of experience far higher than those who went before them. The background of Dermot Mannion, while no doubt a capable individual, was not suited to the Aer Lingus operation. Aer Lingus is a very different type of Emirates.
5. The recent vote with cabin crew along with the 230 redundancies is regrettable but demonstrates the airline will pursue its plans as it must to ensure its continued survival for the other staff working there.
6. Aer Lingus will never be Ryanair so let's just move on. Ryanair have their business model and Aer Lingus have another, this is common in industry. I amn't aware of posts daily denegrading Volkswagen for having a different business model to Dacia.
Aer Lingus will continue to operate and I believe the next 3 - 5 years will see the company develop in a mature and measured fashion. This will bring some reassurance to the markets, stabilise and increase the share price and bring some return for the shareholders, staff and travelling public. Most important of all, it will ensure there is continued competition at Ireland's gate-way airports.
Now....rant over.
All the best,
P2C.
A couple of points from my point of view on the current state and future of Aer Lingus based on recent developments and the trading update issued today.
1. Hangar 6 debacle was a FR and Irish government debacle and Aer Lingus were right to stay as far out of the issue as possible.
2. The rate of cash burn at Aer Lingus has decreased dramatically. The delaying of aircraft delivereis to the 2011 to 2015 timeframe will aid this.
3. The airline made an operating profit of €12 million in the second half of this year. In Q4 alone (1/1/10 - 31/3/10), Ryanair are predicted to make a loss of c. €100 million based upon the Q3 results and the profit guidance given to the markets. Most of this loss is due to MOL's obsession with growth at the expense of yield and consequently shareholder value. Aer Lingus will instead maintains a stable fleet size and consequently won't need to drop yield as dramatically as FR does to maintain load factor.
4. Aer Lingus is finally being run by a chairman and chief executive with understanding of the business and a breadth of experience far higher than those who went before them. The background of Dermot Mannion, while no doubt a capable individual, was not suited to the Aer Lingus operation. Aer Lingus is a very different type of Emirates.
5. The recent vote with cabin crew along with the 230 redundancies is regrettable but demonstrates the airline will pursue its plans as it must to ensure its continued survival for the other staff working there.
6. Aer Lingus will never be Ryanair so let's just move on. Ryanair have their business model and Aer Lingus have another, this is common in industry. I amn't aware of posts daily denegrading Volkswagen for having a different business model to Dacia.
Aer Lingus will continue to operate and I believe the next 3 - 5 years will see the company develop in a mature and measured fashion. This will bring some reassurance to the markets, stabilise and increase the share price and bring some return for the shareholders, staff and travelling public. Most important of all, it will ensure there is continued competition at Ireland's gate-way airports.
Now....rant over.
All the best,
P2C.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said Papa2Charlie.
You've really been listening to too much of MOL's spin. Aer Lingus made a profit in H2 2009, its not in the diarr straits that MOL would have you believe. As far as Ryanair creating Irish jobs, have you travelled on them recently? Very few of the staff nowadays are actually Irish, most are Eastern European. What would make you believe that if Ryanair occupied hangar 6 that things would be any different. And as Papa2Charlie stated, Aer Lingus had nothing to do with the hangar 6 fiasco, the spat was between the Government and Ryanair (if you lived in Ireland you'd realise that spats between the Irish Government and Ryanair are probably even more regular than MOL suing people - and thats saying something!).
I have posted many times before about the disaster that EIN has become. Look them up. It is all becoming so REAL. Cash is pouring out of the business at the speed of light, and they are still playing politics with SIPTU and Hangar 6. The pilots who invested in the company have been ruined and still the Irish government does nothing. Redundanices in EIN and recruitment in RYR and the government prefers the former. It beggars belief.
EIN is a shambles and RYR is the most ruthlesslely efficient airline the world has ever known. Yet the government prefers shambles.
I will, happily advise the Irish govt for free what a disaster they are pursuing. I will save them millions. Just send me an email.
EIN is a shambles and RYR is the most ruthlesslely efficient airline the world has ever known. Yet the government prefers shambles.
I will, happily advise the Irish govt for free what a disaster they are pursuing. I will save them millions. Just send me an email.
You've really been listening to too much of MOL's spin. Aer Lingus made a profit in H2 2009, its not in the diarr straits that MOL would have you believe.
1 Year ago spending millions launching Gatwick base and now withdrawning from most routes, cash has halved, second redundancy plan in 18 months with a huge cash outflow in 1st redundancy plan in paying off people to the tune of €100 million, current plan may not cost that but it will not cost nothing.
Options include paying statutory minimum redundancy in people letting go but that would probably backfire with strike action as people left behind would think that if it happens to them they would get the same so would act in their own interests first.
Companies don't go bust because they make profits, they go bust because they run out of cash and creditors / lenders don't have confidence that any cash they invest will get repaid. This is NOT the position with Aer Lingus but it could be if they continue to bleed cash at an unsustainable rate.
IMHO I think Mueller is doing a good job
in trying to save the Airline. He was taken on as a hatchet man who because he is not Irish will not get the same abuse as a native son. Unfortunately what he is trying to do is a couple of years late and unions now accepting a need for change when there is €500 M less than it was when they could have changed and invested in the future.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Crawley
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 230 compulsory redundancies just shows how committed CM is to reducing costs and shows that he's not interested in playing silly games with the cabin crew anymore.
They have had it very good for too long and the need to come back in line with other carriers. This situation just shows what will happen if you force CM hand. Finally EI has a CEO who is willing to take on the cabin crew and other departments to make the company a profitable business.
Good job Mr. Mueller!!!
They have had it very good for too long and the need to come back in line with other carriers. This situation just shows what will happen if you force CM hand. Finally EI has a CEO who is willing to take on the cabin crew and other departments to make the company a profitable business.
Good job Mr. Mueller!!!
All EI cabin crew are to be let go, then most will be offered new contracts on reworked T's & C's.
Unlike the groups who voted in favour of the restrucuring plan, the IMACT CC's are only getting statuary redundancy entitlements, where as those from areas who accepted the deal and are volunteering for severance get a better deal.
RTÉ News: Aer Lingus crew to get minimum redundancy pay
JAS
Unlike the groups who voted in favour of the restrucuring plan, the IMACT CC's are only getting statuary redundancy entitlements, where as those from areas who accepted the deal and are volunteering for severance get a better deal.
RTÉ News: Aer Lingus crew to get minimum redundancy pay
JAS
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I never thought I'd see the day.
On the subject of the annual working hours mentioned in the article - 600 hours. That's less than a 12 hour working week!!! - and they want to increase it to only 16? I must be missing something here.
On the subject of the annual working hours mentioned in the article - 600 hours. That's less than a 12 hour working week!!! - and they want to increase it to only 16? I must be missing something here.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
230 Compulsory Cabin Crew Redundancies - The Human Factor
Being a regular passenger with Aer Lingus, I've also been a long time follower of this forum, that has charted the many ups and downs of the airline over time.
While an announcement regarding compulsory redundancies was inevitable given the majority rejection by IMPACT Cabin Crew members, let's just remember that not every member voted against the proposals and it is now quite likely that several of these staff members will lose their jobs.
Though there are many rejoicing at the decisive action taken by C Mueller, the human dimension of this should not be forgotten. How many would be as quick to rejoice, if it were your own jobs that were in severe risk of being lost?
Even more troubling, the latest news reports would suggest that all Cabin Managers will be made redundant almost immediately. While some people seem to think that EI Cabin Crew have it easy, these Cabin Managers are the top level ambassadors for the airline on Transatlantic flights & sometimes on flights in Europe. Having travelled to many parts of the world, I can solidly say that some of the EI Cabin Managers (who have 20 - 40 years of experience with the airline) and general Cabin Crew are simply the best, most enthuasiastic and attentive group of crew that I have come across, when compared with a multitude of other airlines. Yes there are some crew who don't give it everything or anything near to that level, but they are in the minority.
Speaking to various Cabin Managers in the past 12 months, Aer Lingus was already operating some flights to the United States without Cabin Managers. The latest news reports seem to suggest that the role of the Cabin Manager will no longer exist and that there may not even be an option for re-employment for these staff members.
RTÉ News: Aer Lingus crew to get minimum redundancy pay
Moreover, I am surprised at the RTE figure of 600 Hours per year, because I have been told by several Aer Lingus Cabin Crew over time that it is fact 900 Hours per annum. Regardless of the figure, let's not forget that while many of us are asleep, EI Cabin Crew are dealing with 300+ passengers at irregular hours coming back across the Atlantic, dealing with all kinds of possible issues, with transition through a multitude of time zones in only 36 hours or less. Crew working conditions have been reduced in the recent past, with the Galley being the rest area for crew on several aircraft, along with a removal of trays for food consumption during rest breaks etc.
While it may be positive to see a decisive move from the CEO of Aer Lingus, the outcome is far from positive. If the latest news reports are correct, then Aer Lingus will lose many staff members who have given a vast majority or even all of their working life to the company.
The Net effect on paper might look good in the medium term, but a great deal of damage will have been done, most especially to staff morale in the airline. Aer Lingus stands to lose many of it's most professional and sincere members of staff, who may not necessarily have rejected the proposals.
There is a heavy human factor to this story and my sincere sympathies rest firmly with all of those Aer Lingus staff members who are losing their jobs. If you have travelled with Aer Lingus many times and enjoyed the hospitality provided by these members of Cabin Crew, you will understand the true long term tragedy to today's announcement.
While an announcement regarding compulsory redundancies was inevitable given the majority rejection by IMPACT Cabin Crew members, let's just remember that not every member voted against the proposals and it is now quite likely that several of these staff members will lose their jobs.
Though there are many rejoicing at the decisive action taken by C Mueller, the human dimension of this should not be forgotten. How many would be as quick to rejoice, if it were your own jobs that were in severe risk of being lost?
Even more troubling, the latest news reports would suggest that all Cabin Managers will be made redundant almost immediately. While some people seem to think that EI Cabin Crew have it easy, these Cabin Managers are the top level ambassadors for the airline on Transatlantic flights & sometimes on flights in Europe. Having travelled to many parts of the world, I can solidly say that some of the EI Cabin Managers (who have 20 - 40 years of experience with the airline) and general Cabin Crew are simply the best, most enthuasiastic and attentive group of crew that I have come across, when compared with a multitude of other airlines. Yes there are some crew who don't give it everything or anything near to that level, but they are in the minority.
Speaking to various Cabin Managers in the past 12 months, Aer Lingus was already operating some flights to the United States without Cabin Managers. The latest news reports seem to suggest that the role of the Cabin Manager will no longer exist and that there may not even be an option for re-employment for these staff members.
RTÉ News: Aer Lingus crew to get minimum redundancy pay
Moreover, I am surprised at the RTE figure of 600 Hours per year, because I have been told by several Aer Lingus Cabin Crew over time that it is fact 900 Hours per annum. Regardless of the figure, let's not forget that while many of us are asleep, EI Cabin Crew are dealing with 300+ passengers at irregular hours coming back across the Atlantic, dealing with all kinds of possible issues, with transition through a multitude of time zones in only 36 hours or less. Crew working conditions have been reduced in the recent past, with the Galley being the rest area for crew on several aircraft, along with a removal of trays for food consumption during rest breaks etc.
While it may be positive to see a decisive move from the CEO of Aer Lingus, the outcome is far from positive. If the latest news reports are correct, then Aer Lingus will lose many staff members who have given a vast majority or even all of their working life to the company.
The Net effect on paper might look good in the medium term, but a great deal of damage will have been done, most especially to staff morale in the airline. Aer Lingus stands to lose many of it's most professional and sincere members of staff, who may not necessarily have rejected the proposals.
There is a heavy human factor to this story and my sincere sympathies rest firmly with all of those Aer Lingus staff members who are losing their jobs. If you have travelled with Aer Lingus many times and enjoyed the hospitality provided by these members of Cabin Crew, you will understand the true long term tragedy to today's announcement.
Pilots work 17 hours a week too, well according to MOL and simple maths of 900/52. Do you believe everything you read in the media?