Aer Lingus - 5
Irishpilot1990: you asked: "no pay cuts, no job loses"....SIPTU, whats their better plan? print monoply money?
I'm afraid that SIPTU might be quite willing to sacrifice Aer Lingus staff in a battle: the bigger war they are trying to win is in the public sector, where "no pay cuts" is the slogan of the moment.
I sometimes think that SIPTU and sections of the Irish media forget that Aer Lingus is now a private sector outfit (albeit with a Government stake). A battle in which Aer Lingus suffered no pay cuts but went bust with 3,000+ job losses would be regarded as a "victory" in some leftist and union quarters in Ireland.
I'm afraid that SIPTU might be quite willing to sacrifice Aer Lingus staff in a battle: the bigger war they are trying to win is in the public sector, where "no pay cuts" is the slogan of the moment.
I sometimes think that SIPTU and sections of the Irish media forget that Aer Lingus is now a private sector outfit (albeit with a Government stake). A battle in which Aer Lingus suffered no pay cuts but went bust with 3,000+ job losses would be regarded as a "victory" in some leftist and union quarters in Ireland.
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We all have, and have parents,friends and families who have taken pay cuts,many greater then 10%.Fact of life at this time.
I am not at all against trade unions.But is there too many involved in trying to run the airline?Are the too unco-operative?!?I can already see headlines about strikes now.
Which will lead to less consumer confidence/bookings and a greater problem for the workers!!
I am not at all against trade unions.But is there too many involved in trying to run the airline?Are the too unco-operative?!?I can already see headlines about strikes now.
Which will lead to less consumer confidence/bookings and a greater problem for the workers!!
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670 job losses is just the start!!!!
EI are now applying for a licence to fly from the UK to outside Europe..
I think its only a matter of months before long haul aircraft are taken from Ireland to Gatwick
Job losses, wage cuts, routes slashed, aircrafts re deployed, where will it end
EI are now applying for a licence to fly from the UK to outside Europe..
I think its only a matter of months before long haul aircraft are taken from Ireland to Gatwick
Job losses, wage cuts, routes slashed, aircrafts re deployed, where will it end
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I got a sense from the radio today that most of the positions that are to go are Pilots and Cabin Crew. It also said that they expect the exercise of people exiting by the end of 2011(did I get that bit wrong?).
If that is the likely date for completion, this would indicate that 1. Aer Lingus is grossly overstaffed in crew (we were led to believe that the main saving in labour terms were from ground positions mostly Admin) 2. The company do not anticipate that their sales will improve or any growth in terms of expansion will occure within this time (Ie given that they will not need these positions?) 3.Is it going to be that the company recruits after the redundancy exercise is complete when needed (in which case the redundancy costs were not necessary?) and finally does it mean that contract positions like Ryanair do will be the order of the day?
I recognise that Aer Lingus need to cut back and this will have to be embraced by everyone. And as one previous poster said pay cuts are commonplace today. But my understanding was that aer Lingus were going to trim out unnecessary roles to make them leaner to enable them to grow in the future, and not necessarily in Ireland and the recession will not be here forever, at which time many of these crew will be needed?
If that is the likely date for completion, this would indicate that 1. Aer Lingus is grossly overstaffed in crew (we were led to believe that the main saving in labour terms were from ground positions mostly Admin) 2. The company do not anticipate that their sales will improve or any growth in terms of expansion will occure within this time (Ie given that they will not need these positions?) 3.Is it going to be that the company recruits after the redundancy exercise is complete when needed (in which case the redundancy costs were not necessary?) and finally does it mean that contract positions like Ryanair do will be the order of the day?
I recognise that Aer Lingus need to cut back and this will have to be embraced by everyone. And as one previous poster said pay cuts are commonplace today. But my understanding was that aer Lingus were going to trim out unnecessary roles to make them leaner to enable them to grow in the future, and not necessarily in Ireland and the recession will not be here forever, at which time many of these crew will be needed?
Racedo, would these be the same Unions that delivered €15m in savings from Cabin Crew alone last December?
. It also said that they expect the exercise of people exiting by the end of 2011(did I get that bit wrong?).
IF you making people redundant do it quickly, cleanly and move on.
This is for the people leaving as they can get on with their lives and hopefully get another job without the demoralising effect of being made redundant hanging over them for months before final day.
It is also more relevant for the people staying. The effect on Morale will be severe and if done quickly then can start to look forward quickly. If it takes months then it affects morale because some are going some are leaving and you are left with neither one or the other. People always forget the psychological affect that redundancy has on the people who are staying.
I raise the cash issue as well as if there is another 15 months before everybody goes then you pay them up to they leave and it would be foolish to expect people to offer 100% commitment just after you told them they were surplus to requirements.
EI is bleeding cash and saving ŁX million doesn't happen quickly as you have to pay redundancy sooner and its unlikely in cash terms you will show a real saving until 12-18 months after last person has left.
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EI-BUD
the FR/EZ type contracts for cabin crew are already in place for any cabin crew that are recruited in the ROI from last October. it hasn't been mentioned cos there hasn't been any recruitment in the ROI. crew have advised me of this FACT. It was one part of the deal that they gave last October/November.
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Job losses are a natural consequence of privitisation. Didn't anyone realise that? Gone are the days when the State supported her Aer Lingus and propped up unprofitable parts of the business. The company is no longer a flag carrier' and is free to exploit the consumer wherever they are geographically. You also have the inherent conflicts and disadvantages of Ryanair into the mix.
Ryanair may blow its trumpet on job creation but on the other side of the scale they are also creating huge job losses in the aviation industry which naturally they don't crow about.
Ryanair may blow its trumpet on job creation but on the other side of the scale they are also creating huge job losses in the aviation industry which naturally they don't crow about.
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The fact that these job cuts and pay freezes may lead the unions to ballot members on strike action. However with the UK bases on different terms and conditions already, and been confirmed no job cuts or changes to pay for Belfast, if EI was to strike, presumably this would not affect UK base operations, in particular BFS.
Aer Lingus confirmed to the Belfast Telegraph that Northern Ireland will not incur any job losses.
Enda Corneille, corporate affairs director at Aer Lingus said: "The announcement will have no impact on staffing numbers, pay and conditions, nor on our services operating from Belfast International Airport."
Enda Corneille, corporate affairs director at Aer Lingus said: "The announcement will have no impact on staffing numbers, pay and conditions, nor on our services operating from Belfast International Airport."
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Take a look at this article from the FT for more detail.
FT.com / Companies / Airlines - Aer Lingus job loss plan sparks union fury
Aer Lingus is the benchmark basket case airline right now. It's based in the worst performing European economy, a small market at the best of times, with a mighty competitor in Ryanair.
Any merger activity is badly compromised by the 30% Ryanair and 25% Irish government shareholdings. At a time when airlines are looking to preserve cash, any purchase of Aer Lingus would have to provide for taking out both these shareholders in cash, ie there could be no all-share offer.
Aer Lingus is, I think, still haemorraging cash, and will run out of the stuff sometime in 2010 without a major turnaround in fortunes. Their long haul business is a disaster. They're using the A330s bought to grow their US routes to take people on holiday to Spain instead (seriously).
So, the cuts are necessary. Personally, I don't see them as being enough. The Irish economy isn't going to recover until 2011, unemployment will continue rising (it's at about 15% at present), net emigration will leave the available passenger base lower anyway. They're trying to grow in the UK, but Easy and Ryanair have already got the best deals at all the London hubs ex-Heathrow, so that is unlikely to be a great source of profits (or positive cash flow) any time soon.
There are political reasons why Aer Lingus won't be allowed to fail totally, and every effort will be made to prevent Ryanair taking control (though don't be surprised to see Ryanair take the long haul bit of Aer Lingus in return for reducing their stake in the airline). I'm not sure just how a takeover/rescue can be put together, because it's not obvious why anyone would want Aer Lingus. It has no strategic value to anyone other than Ryanair.
FT.com / Companies / Airlines - Aer Lingus job loss plan sparks union fury
Aer Lingus is the benchmark basket case airline right now. It's based in the worst performing European economy, a small market at the best of times, with a mighty competitor in Ryanair.
Any merger activity is badly compromised by the 30% Ryanair and 25% Irish government shareholdings. At a time when airlines are looking to preserve cash, any purchase of Aer Lingus would have to provide for taking out both these shareholders in cash, ie there could be no all-share offer.
Aer Lingus is, I think, still haemorraging cash, and will run out of the stuff sometime in 2010 without a major turnaround in fortunes. Their long haul business is a disaster. They're using the A330s bought to grow their US routes to take people on holiday to Spain instead (seriously).
So, the cuts are necessary. Personally, I don't see them as being enough. The Irish economy isn't going to recover until 2011, unemployment will continue rising (it's at about 15% at present), net emigration will leave the available passenger base lower anyway. They're trying to grow in the UK, but Easy and Ryanair have already got the best deals at all the London hubs ex-Heathrow, so that is unlikely to be a great source of profits (or positive cash flow) any time soon.
There are political reasons why Aer Lingus won't be allowed to fail totally, and every effort will be made to prevent Ryanair taking control (though don't be surprised to see Ryanair take the long haul bit of Aer Lingus in return for reducing their stake in the airline). I'm not sure just how a takeover/rescue can be put together, because it's not obvious why anyone would want Aer Lingus. It has no strategic value to anyone other than Ryanair.
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bnt,
Absolutely. Had the government accepted Ryanair's offer, they'd also have had an extra €1 billion in cash. Not sure the expansion MOL talks about would actually have happened. The world has changed since the first bid. However, Aer Lingus would not be in such deep trouble as it is now.
Absolutely. Had the government accepted Ryanair's offer, they'd also have had an extra €1 billion in cash. Not sure the expansion MOL talks about would actually have happened. The world has changed since the first bid. However, Aer Lingus would not be in such deep trouble as it is now.
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Share value dropping and if no one was interested in buying them then they'd be in trouble.
Earlier this year Ryanair said they'd create 1000 new jobs (includes sub contracting ) and double the size of the fleet.
Leo, how many employees should an airline like Aer Lingus have?
Earlier this year Ryanair said they'd create 1000 new jobs (includes sub contracting ) and double the size of the fleet.
Leo, how many employees should an airline like Aer Lingus have?
Sober Lark: the main reason that such job losses are contemplated is because Irish GDP will decline by about 15% between mid 2007 and end 2010. This has produced a huge shortfall in public revenues which will lead to tax increases and falls in disposable incomes. What to you think this does to the demand for air travel?
And what has privatisation got to do with exploiting the consumer? As a nationalised outfit protected from competition Aer Lingus really screwed the consumer. Now, look at the more recent trend in fares and yields: the consumer is "exploiting" Aer Lingus, and it hurts.
Anyhow I hope they get sense and do what is necesary to survive: otherwise SIPTU will be virtually forcing us to fly with Ryanair. That will be the final proof that there is no intelligent life on planet SIPTU.
And what has privatisation got to do with exploiting the consumer? As a nationalised outfit protected from competition Aer Lingus really screwed the consumer. Now, look at the more recent trend in fares and yields: the consumer is "exploiting" Aer Lingus, and it hurts.
Anyhow I hope they get sense and do what is necesary to survive: otherwise SIPTU will be virtually forcing us to fly with Ryanair. That will be the final proof that there is no intelligent life on planet SIPTU.
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Sober Lark,
I think MOL made the comment about creating 1,000 jobs at the time of the first takeover bid in 2007(?), not this year. I doubt Ryanair would want most of Aer Lingus now. They've reduced the number of their own aircraft based in Dublin, so I can't see the desire to take on a lot more short haul assets at the moment, especailly when it would mean moving to a two-manufacturer fleet.
I think MOL made the comment about creating 1,000 jobs at the time of the first takeover bid in 2007(?), not this year. I doubt Ryanair would want most of Aer Lingus now. They've reduced the number of their own aircraft based in Dublin, so I can't see the desire to take on a lot more short haul assets at the moment, especailly when it would mean moving to a two-manufacturer fleet.
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Faced with a strike I think it pretty likely Aer Lingus will wet lease aircraft to continue to run services and take on the Unions.