Aer Lingus - 5
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I've no problem with Shannon US routes as long as they're not a drain on the company. The stakes are getting higher by the month. Those of us who wan't Aerlingus to survive must hope that commercial reality will win out.
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this winter will tell a lot. They operate out of two massive buildings in dublin airport....for what?, where as the most ruthless airline in europe across the road from them is operating out of a hut in comparison.....
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Very surprised they even started such a stupid idea. NO to Shannon-US routes!
Aer Lingus cannot do this with the A330 as it's just a little on the big side to be operated from Shannon year round. Both markets are recognised and served seperately and Shannon seems to have enough traffic to have supported Aer Lingus and few US carriers, though fewer than in the days of the stopover.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Apologies, it's not personal but a little prep is always good before launching an opinion. As in I had not opened by trap before reading the Ryanair results you poined me to....it's not clever and I should know!
Good to see the SNN-LHR back up a bit though, have used that one in the past and other options are always good in my book.
Good to see the SNN-LHR back up a bit though, have used that one in the past and other options are always good in my book.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Actualyl I agree with you Skipiness.
I believe that EI are stuck between a rock and a hard place. All pilots are airbus rated. Then there is nothing to cross the pond smaller than a 330. If EI were still in Boeing land, it may cost a bit less but I cant see EI going down that road again.
A question for the history guys! What were the factors in the 90s when EI finally retired the 747's in favour of the 330? Who was on that panel and was the decision to take the 330 then a good one?
Finally, I didnt see many people complain about the 330 in boom times.
I believe that EI are stuck between a rock and a hard place. All pilots are airbus rated. Then there is nothing to cross the pond smaller than a 330. If EI were still in Boeing land, it may cost a bit less but I cant see EI going down that road again.
A question for the history guys! What were the factors in the 90s when EI finally retired the 747's in favour of the 330? Who was on that panel and was the decision to take the 330 then a good one?
Finally, I didnt see many people complain about the 330 in boom times.
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The main factor was the fact that the 747s were getting very long in tooth and expensive to maintain; they were 1970-71 vintage.
They looked at various options at the time, including secondhand 747s (I believe secondhand SAA 743s were considered), new 767s and of course, A330s. I believe Colm McCarthy, who later joined FR, was in charge of the evaluation.
To cut a long story short, the A330 cut all of the other options to shreds; it's economics were FAR better than those of the 747 and its cargo capacity was another big winner.
The A330 choice was definitely the right one. It was and remains one of the most economical, if not the most economical t/a airliners. The early -300s were a bit short on range, although they could still make ORD, which is an 8h+ trip in Winter, but the newer -302E models do that fine. I think it's fair to sat that the 330 itself was not the cause of any of EI's problems; for example, on the DXB route, the 330 COULD have been a big success, but EI didn't have the marketing, scheduling or consistency of product.
I strongly believe that in the current market environment, long haul low cost is the way to go and the cost advantages of the 330 might make that a very attractive proposition. The SNN-JFK route had some of the lowest t/a LFs for some years, so it's not a big surprise that it's being cut. I always found it difficult to understand how the route supported CO (to EWR), DL and EI.
I do have concerns about the 359, which I think will have to be revisited - and probably is being, as part of the "future size and shape" project, but I strongly believe that the 330 is one of the finest aircraft EI has ever introduced.
They looked at various options at the time, including secondhand 747s (I believe secondhand SAA 743s were considered), new 767s and of course, A330s. I believe Colm McCarthy, who later joined FR, was in charge of the evaluation.
To cut a long story short, the A330 cut all of the other options to shreds; it's economics were FAR better than those of the 747 and its cargo capacity was another big winner.
The A330 choice was definitely the right one. It was and remains one of the most economical, if not the most economical t/a airliners. The early -300s were a bit short on range, although they could still make ORD, which is an 8h+ trip in Winter, but the newer -302E models do that fine. I think it's fair to sat that the 330 itself was not the cause of any of EI's problems; for example, on the DXB route, the 330 COULD have been a big success, but EI didn't have the marketing, scheduling or consistency of product.
I strongly believe that in the current market environment, long haul low cost is the way to go and the cost advantages of the 330 might make that a very attractive proposition. The SNN-JFK route had some of the lowest t/a LFs for some years, so it's not a big surprise that it's being cut. I always found it difficult to understand how the route supported CO (to EWR), DL and EI.
I do have concerns about the 359, which I think will have to be revisited - and probably is being, as part of the "future size and shape" project, but I strongly believe that the 330 is one of the finest aircraft EI has ever introduced.
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SkipnessOneEcho, I know I am only 17 - but I feel in a time like this (don't forget Aer Lingus are fast approaching the bottom of the barrel in cash) Irish tourists can drive to Dublin (or bus, train etc) to catch a flight to the US.
BA don't do a Manchester-New York route do they? Ironically, BA are too in the barrel, approaching the bottom.
Lufthansa does it's long-haul routes from Frankfurt and Munich, what would someone from Hamburg do? It isn't a problem to drive or get the train or bus. And in a deep recesion, beggers can't be choosers!
BA don't do a Manchester-New York route do they? Ironically, BA are too in the barrel, approaching the bottom.
Lufthansa does it's long-haul routes from Frankfurt and Munich, what would someone from Hamburg do? It isn't a problem to drive or get the train or bus. And in a deep recesion, beggers can't be choosers!
Join Date: Mar 2005
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While I think there is a market for Shannon-USA, it would seem to be a market that is better served by USA-based aircraft. It's not really worth operating a long-haul base unless you have 4-6 aircraft there. The overheads for the few flights to Boston and New York must be significantly higher than the overheads for operating from Dublin. It would almost certainly be better to leave the US routes to the likes of Continental who can serve the route from their US-based hubs.
BTW This is also a reason why Aer Lingus would be nuts to consider TA from Cork or Belfast.
BTW This is also a reason why Aer Lingus would be nuts to consider TA from Cork or Belfast.
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FutureCC
Every time you fly or even drive a car on a motorway you are fast approaching death. Then the man in charge puts on the brakes and you walk away, all alive. No big deal.
Don't believe something just because Michael O'Leary (or his mouthpiece here Racedo) says it. Aer Lingus will not run out of cash anytime soon.
SkipnessOneEcho, I know I am only 17 - but I feel in a time like this (don't forget Aer Lingus are fast approaching the bottom of the barrel in cash)
Don't believe something just because Michael O'Leary (or his mouthpiece here Racedo) says it. Aer Lingus will not run out of cash anytime soon.
Don't believe something just because Michael O'Leary (or his mouthpiece here Racedo) says it. Aer Lingus will not run out of cash anytime soon.
As for EI and cash they are leaking it and have aready indicated that themselves.
Their own statements are what people and analysts are reading so perhaps you know better.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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That's just a ridiculous statement.
Yes, Aer Lingus are making horrible losses.
Yes, it can't continue this way.
But they're not approaching bankruptcy.
They can continue as they are at present and still be flying up to 2012.
What's important is to get the problems sorted out early, so that imminent bankruptcy isn't being talked about in three years time.
Yes, Aer Lingus are making horrible losses.
Yes, it can't continue this way.
But they're not approaching bankruptcy.
They can continue as they are at present and still be flying up to 2012.
What's important is to get the problems sorted out early, so that imminent bankruptcy isn't being talked about in three years time.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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I don't think that's a ridiculous statement.
Aer Lingus are loosing more money than it has, no cuts are being made. We still have the idea that even though Aer Lingus can't afford it, keep the Shannon-US routes open.
I don't want Aer Lingus to go, but it is looking like they will!
If the right cuts are made now, hopefully - they will survive.
Aer Lingus are loosing more money than it has, no cuts are being made. We still have the idea that even though Aer Lingus can't afford it, keep the Shannon-US routes open.
I don't want Aer Lingus to go, but it is looking like they will!
If the right cuts are made now, hopefully - they will survive.
Join Date: Nov 1998
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It appears that they are approaching bankruptcy.
> €400 million = Bankruptcy.
It would be an interesting journey into your creative thought process....
Join Date: Jul 2009
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€400 million will not last very long, especially now when the costs are high, bills to pay - and no passengers paying!
We are in a credit crunch... only the strongest will survive.
What does €2.5 billion mean? Economic Stability.
We are in a credit crunch... only the strongest will survive.
What does €2.5 billion mean? Economic Stability.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Can you explain to me how Aer Lingus are going to burn all that cash in a hurry.
I've already states that I foresee a pre-tax loss of 70-90 million this year. After tax and exceptionals, that will probably go up to 130-150 million.
That's not acceptable.
However, it's not going to send them bankrupt this year, or next year, or the year after.
There are massive issues that need addressing in Aer Lingus, but talk of imminent bankruptcy is just hyperbole.
I've already states that I foresee a pre-tax loss of 70-90 million this year. After tax and exceptionals, that will probably go up to 130-150 million.
That's not acceptable.
However, it's not going to send them bankrupt this year, or next year, or the year after.
There are massive issues that need addressing in Aer Lingus, but talk of imminent bankruptcy is just hyperbole.