Aer Lingus - 5
Personally, I have no doubt that if the Irish Government sold the State's stake in Aer Lingus to Ryanair, then it would be run just as well as Ryanair ran Buzz.
Can someone please update me on how that went .... ??
There is no benefit to Ryanair in owning Aer Lingus other than removing a competitor and creating a dominant player out of Ireland. If FR want a transatlantic airline, they they will start one from scratch, without the legacy work practices, union membership, mixed share holding or overlapping routes.
JAS
Can someone please update me on how that went .... ??
There is no benefit to Ryanair in owning Aer Lingus other than removing a competitor and creating a dominant player out of Ireland. If FR want a transatlantic airline, they they will start one from scratch, without the legacy work practices, union membership, mixed share holding or overlapping routes.
JAS
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racedo #2257
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Faced with a strike I think it pretty likely Aer Lingus will wet lease aircraft to continue to run services and take on the Unions.
All academic anyway. I think there's more chance of a new Irish property boom than there is of a strike at Aer Lingus. Choosing who to make redundant will be pretty easy if there is a strike. Even if there is one, I suspect Aer Lingus has access to enough "reserve" crews from their activities in Belfast and Gatwick to be able to cover the loss of staff at Dublin.
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I suspect Aer Lingus has access to enough "reserve" crews from their activities in Belfast and Gatwick to be able to cover the loss of staff at Dublin.
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If the lads are going to get shafted as bad as they are; they may as well bring down the airline with them.
Regardless how the staff may be treated by management, I would like to think they still had respect for the travelling public, business needs and the greater good. Would not be surprised though if this was the attitude of some, such a shame though.
What a moral little world you must live in...
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Economics 101 'hit the nail on the head' when he/she stated 'As a nationalised outfit protected from competition Aer Lingus really screwed the consumer. Now, look at the more recent trend in fares and yields: the consumer is "exploiting" Aer Lingus, and it hurts'.
Economics 101 is also 'spot on' regarding the statement 'SIPTU will be virtually forcing us to fly with Ryanair'.
Those of us who remember having to pay EI 300 punts to fly to LHR 20 years ago can not have too much sympathy. However it was the politicians of the day - C J Haughey & Co - who insisted Aer Lingus take on more employees than were needed. What a costly mess that unfolded over the years since.
BA had similar problems.
If Aer Lingus folds so be it. It will not be the end of the world!
Move on.
Economics 101 is also 'spot on' regarding the statement 'SIPTU will be virtually forcing us to fly with Ryanair'.
Those of us who remember having to pay EI 300 punts to fly to LHR 20 years ago can not have too much sympathy. However it was the politicians of the day - C J Haughey & Co - who insisted Aer Lingus take on more employees than were needed. What a costly mess that unfolded over the years since.
BA had similar problems.
If Aer Lingus folds so be it. It will not be the end of the world!
Move on.
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EI work practices
It is the work practices as much as the numbers working for Aerlingus that has plunged them to this crisis.
It was obvious since about 2001 that the good times were over. Ryanair could have brought matters to a head if they expanded at Dublin around this time but they were at loggerheads with Aer Rianta.
It was obvious since about 2001 that the good times were over. Ryanair could have brought matters to a head if they expanded at Dublin around this time but they were at loggerheads with Aer Rianta.
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I understand Aer Lingus is trying to follow the Ryanair model.
Does Ryanair actually make money selling tickets, or does it make money training people?
Cabin crew 3,000 Euro and their pilots 28,000 Euro?
Nice profits to be made at exploiting people in all industries, why don't we all do it?
Does Ryanair actually make money selling tickets, or does it make money training people?
Cabin crew 3,000 Euro and their pilots 28,000 Euro?
Nice profits to be made at exploiting people in all industries, why don't we all do it?
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Ei320 #2270
Aer Lingus are looking for 229 redundancies amongst cabin crew, 127 of them at Dublin. So that reduces the need for outsiders quite a bit. Whether Aer Lingus has enough potential crew "on hold" is actually pretty academic. There are so many expereinced crew being laid off (eg over 1,000 by BA just an hour's hop away at Heathrow/Gatwick), that Aer Lingus wouldn't struggle to find replacements if there were a strike. They won't even have to do anything as sordid as cross a picket line if they are, indeed, "bussed" in from London every day.
However, as I said, there won't be a strike. We've had several Aer Lingus strike threats over the last two years. None have happened. And, also as noted previously, the head of the Irish trade unions fully endorses the airline's plan. He's a Director of Aer Lingus and the Board accepted the plan unanimously. I suspect he'll be the one shown standing right next to the CEO at each and every media briefing on the cuts.
However, as I said, there won't be a strike. We've had several Aer Lingus strike threats over the last two years. None have happened. And, also as noted previously, the head of the Irish trade unions fully endorses the airline's plan. He's a Director of Aer Lingus and the Board accepted the plan unanimously. I suspect he'll be the one shown standing right next to the CEO at each and every media briefing on the cuts.
For anyone who's interested, here's a link to last nights RTÉ Prime Time on the situation in Aer Lingus.
It might not be available outside of Ireland.
RTÉ.ie Media Player: Prime Time 15 October 2009
JAS
It might not be available outside of Ireland.
RTÉ.ie Media Player: Prime Time 15 October 2009
JAS
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Transatlantic
Why don't Aer Lingus get rid of complementary meals in economy like Icelandair on Transatlantic? Charge for it and bring in lower fares....
What are your opinions?
What are your opinions?
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Have you seen the Fares already? They are giving them away. How cheap do you want to cross the Atlantic for/expected? Cost cutting looks at everything, but cutting meals hurts the consumers, They will travel with so one else.
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Well, I'm thinking that bringing a packed lunch is not such a big deal for a 6/7 hr flight. It'd take the whole catering section from Aer Lingus altogether. Get rid of it. Offer lowco on transatlantic.... Now's the time to get a good business model in place for the pick up. Recessions bring opportunities and I think now is the best time to cut unnecessaries....
Last edited by flying_shortly; 25th Oct 2009 at 13:25.
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In defense of Aer Lingus with some facts rather than opinion. Aer Lingus has co existed with Ryanair for many years in one their ( Ryanairs ) best performing bases. Assuming Ryanair is Europes best performing Airline ( in terms of market cap and share price etc ), then by association Aer Lingus is a million miles from the basket case many like to believe.
rgds
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rgds
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The prices are low but alot of UK mainland passengers would like a direct flight to the USA with going through Ireland.
So what about a transatlantic route from STN, LGW and LHR have such flights but I think a true Lowco service from STN would work.
Seat only, no free food/drink, pay for your seat selection and pay for your bags it would work.
So what about a transatlantic route from STN, LGW and LHR have such flights but I think a true Lowco service from STN would work.
Seat only, no free food/drink, pay for your seat selection and pay for your bags it would work.
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If Aer Lingus had a viable route to America or Canada out of London that would not work out of Dublin it should offer tax/charges only flight connections to Gatwick for Irish/European pax to transfer.... It might even consider such an offer for Europeans for onward connection from Dublin to USA....
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no slot #2280
Assuming Ryanair is Europes best performing Airline ( in terms of market cap and share price etc ), then by association Aer Lingus is a million miles from the basket case many like to believe.
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Aer Lingus is cash positive. Most cash spent this year is on exceptional items, such as redundancy package to retire or migrate expensive staff. New payscales are very much in line with market rates. Aer Lingus also bought new aircraft with cash, which will be transferred to a leasing company once leasing market recovers, resulting in cash returnng to the balance sheet.
Hardly uncontrollable cash burn.
Aer Lingus is cash positive, Ryanair has net debt.
I stand by my original point, Aer Lingus has successfully operated in one of Ryanairs better performing bases for some time now. If AL was a pushover Ryanair would have forced them out of business rather than attempting to buy them.
rgds
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Hardly uncontrollable cash burn.
Aer Lingus is cash positive, Ryanair has net debt.
I stand by my original point, Aer Lingus has successfully operated in one of Ryanairs better performing bases for some time now. If AL was a pushover Ryanair would have forced them out of business rather than attempting to buy them.
rgds
no slot
