CARDIFF
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The way to get more people to use the airport is to lower the cost. Everyone i speak to at work says they refuse to fly from Cardiff because it's too expensive. I spoke to a lady yesterday who is taking her family on holiday and is flying from Gatwick because the same route available from Cardiff is £500 more for the four of them ...Cardiff will never be able to compete while the prices are so high.
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Competition lowers the price im afraid.
The airports prices are competitive with the rest of the country the boss of the proposed airline Fbb confirmed this.
It's not all doom as aer lingoes to America can come cheaper than some other airports on the same route.
The charters are full out of cwl and bmibaby figures looking good this summer. So people are paying these prices.
All airlines know exactly how much people are willing to pay from individual airports and this is what their doing getting the max out of cwl as there is little competition to make them lower their costs
The airports prices are competitive with the rest of the country the boss of the proposed airline Fbb confirmed this.
It's not all doom as aer lingoes to America can come cheaper than some other airports on the same route.
The charters are full out of cwl and bmibaby figures looking good this summer. So people are paying these prices.
All airlines know exactly how much people are willing to pay from individual airports and this is what their doing getting the max out of cwl as there is little competition to make them lower their costs
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So Mathers, in turn, has just answered CV's quotes regarding making money for airlines.
If the airlines are able to charge more from CWL, which has been well known for a long time, then surely airlines have been making a good profit out of CWL for a long time.... So... Where's the routes??
It was only today i thought to myself, whatever happened to BCN? I would've thought that would be a very popular route.
But there's also a long list of routes WW have tried, that are no longer with us or didn't even start to operate after being put on sale.
Whilst not restricted to just WW alone, i hope LH will make something out of WW at Cardiff and produce some more routes. LH aren't stupid, but i have the feeling when it boils down to it, it may be all or nothing for WW at CWL.
If the airlines are able to charge more from CWL, which has been well known for a long time, then surely airlines have been making a good profit out of CWL for a long time.... So... Where's the routes??
It was only today i thought to myself, whatever happened to BCN? I would've thought that would be a very popular route.
But there's also a long list of routes WW have tried, that are no longer with us or didn't even start to operate after being put on sale.
Whilst not restricted to just WW alone, i hope LH will make something out of WW at Cardiff and produce some more routes. LH aren't stupid, but i have the feeling when it boils down to it, it may be all or nothing for WW at CWL.
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BCN was an unwelcome cut at CWL - one of WW's best performing routes but but in favour of MAH! It would be more than welcome back, along with MAH! Julian (and co.) where are you....
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I'm not 100% certain but i believe i seen somwhere that Bmibaby were obtaining some money by possibly WAG for the BCN route. This was for the 2 years it operated.
If Bmibaby had more aircraft CWL would see more routes and possibly aircraft. I'm not talking of the 21 that they once had i'm talking along the lines of 25-30 aircraft.
Why do Bmibaby chop and change routes? It is mainly because with the limited amount of aircraft based at CWL they have to make the most amound of money out of them.
Are we likely to see more aircraft at CWL with Bmibaby? It depends on what LH has in store with the company. No more aircraft to the fleet will mean no more aircraft at CWL and possibly no more flights only chop and change in destinations and frequencies.
If Bmibaby had more aircraft CWL would see more routes and possibly aircraft. I'm not talking of the 21 that they once had i'm talking along the lines of 25-30 aircraft.
Why do Bmibaby chop and change routes? It is mainly because with the limited amount of aircraft based at CWL they have to make the most amound of money out of them.
Are we likely to see more aircraft at CWL with Bmibaby? It depends on what LH has in store with the company. No more aircraft to the fleet will mean no more aircraft at CWL and possibly no more flights only chop and change in destinations and frequencies.
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No that didn't answer my point at all. You are not talking about the same type of flying. What people want to know is how to get more flights like the baby MUC and the Fly Be CDG. What Mathers is talking about is sunshine flying be that charter or low cost. CWL has always been and will remain a good place to operate med flights from. Oh and I also believe if someone did SFB they'd do ok as well. The airlines know that. That is why CWL still has a TOM and TCX presence.
The consolidation in the charter market, 4 big players to 2, has also not helped airports like CWL where charter is the life blood but has helped the companies charge those higher prices for the IT seats. I remember a time CWL had Airtours, First Choice Airways, JMC and Britannia ! I could always get a last minute week somewhere for £99 ! Doubt that made them any money though. Of course if you think about it it still has all those players but those 6 aircraft have become 2 ! Charter has been hit hard by LC and is only just stabilising. Baby fill the gap (or took the business if you think that way) by offering those flights as flight only cheaper - but not CHEAP ! and they aren't in a position to expand at present as they are not masters of their own destiny.
So original point if you want more MUC, CDG, BFS, EDI, GLA, AMS, DUB type flying. NOT more AGP, ALC, MJV, FAO, PMI, etc.. If you want DUS, FRA, MAD, LIS, etc... refer to my earlier post and prove to Fly Be CWL is a good home for some of their 175 order ! That can be done by the airport and those other interested parties.
The consolidation in the charter market, 4 big players to 2, has also not helped airports like CWL where charter is the life blood but has helped the companies charge those higher prices for the IT seats. I remember a time CWL had Airtours, First Choice Airways, JMC and Britannia ! I could always get a last minute week somewhere for £99 ! Doubt that made them any money though. Of course if you think about it it still has all those players but those 6 aircraft have become 2 ! Charter has been hit hard by LC and is only just stabilising. Baby fill the gap (or took the business if you think that way) by offering those flights as flight only cheaper - but not CHEAP ! and they aren't in a position to expand at present as they are not masters of their own destiny.
So original point if you want more MUC, CDG, BFS, EDI, GLA, AMS, DUB type flying. NOT more AGP, ALC, MJV, FAO, PMI, etc.. If you want DUS, FRA, MAD, LIS, etc... refer to my earlier post and prove to Fly Be CWL is a good home for some of their 175 order ! That can be done by the airport and those other interested parties.
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August Figures '10
Here are the passenger figures for August 2010.
DOMESTIC
DESTINATION/PASSENGERS AUG 10/ PASSENGERS AUG 09/ PERCENTAGE CHANGE
EDINBURGH/9902/14609/-32.21 Reductions in rotations
GLASGOW/4828/4389/10
JERSEY/3906/4943/-20.97
NEWCASTLE/2008/2830/-29.04 Reductions in rotations
ANGLESEY/657/839/-21.69
BELFAST CITY/5051/3501/44.27 Addition services by BE
INTERNATIONAL
DESTINATION/PASSENGERS AUG 10/ PASSENGERS AUG 09/ PERCENTAGE CHANGE
ALICANTE/10514/12192/-13.76
AMSTERDAM/11417/11593/-1.52
ANTALYA/3680/2115/74.00 New Route from TOM
ARRECIFE/3506/3579/-2.04
BODRUM/4384/5379/-18.50
BURGAS/3465/3162/9.58
CORFU/1846/1499/23.15
CORK/2558/1606/59.28 New partnership EI/RE
DALAMAN/11398/9899/15.14
DUBLIN/6388/4913/30.02 New partnership EI/RE
FARO/7658/10942/-30.01 Reduction in rotations
FUERTEVENTURA/1619/1640/-1.28
HERAKLION/3523/3161/11.45
IBIZA/6295/7597/-17.14
KEFALLINIA/2128/1789/18.95
KOS/1647/1447/13.82
LARNACA/3262/3667/-11.04
LAS PALMAS/1859/2314/-19.66
MAHON/5741/5590/2.70
MALAGA/9361/14300/-34.54 Reductions in rotations
MALTA/1114/904/23.23
MONASTIR/3609/0/100 New Route
MURCIA SAN JAVIER/3637/3584/1.48
PALMA DE MALLORCA/17077/19135/-10.76
PAPHOS/4304/4351/-1.08
PARIS/3213/3483/-7.75
REUS 3429/3015/13.73
RHODES/3472/3418/1.58
SHARM EL SHEIKH/2050/2220/-7.66
TENERIFE SOUTH/3547/3764/-5.77
ZAKINTHOS 3062/3491/-12.29
IN BOLD ARE THE BIG CHANGES.
DOMESTIC
DESTINATION/PASSENGERS AUG 10/ PASSENGERS AUG 09/ PERCENTAGE CHANGE
EDINBURGH/9902/14609/-32.21 Reductions in rotations
GLASGOW/4828/4389/10
JERSEY/3906/4943/-20.97
NEWCASTLE/2008/2830/-29.04 Reductions in rotations
ANGLESEY/657/839/-21.69
BELFAST CITY/5051/3501/44.27 Addition services by BE
INTERNATIONAL
DESTINATION/PASSENGERS AUG 10/ PASSENGERS AUG 09/ PERCENTAGE CHANGE
ALICANTE/10514/12192/-13.76
AMSTERDAM/11417/11593/-1.52
ANTALYA/3680/2115/74.00 New Route from TOM
ARRECIFE/3506/3579/-2.04
BODRUM/4384/5379/-18.50
BURGAS/3465/3162/9.58
CORFU/1846/1499/23.15
CORK/2558/1606/59.28 New partnership EI/RE
DALAMAN/11398/9899/15.14
DUBLIN/6388/4913/30.02 New partnership EI/RE
FARO/7658/10942/-30.01 Reduction in rotations
FUERTEVENTURA/1619/1640/-1.28
HERAKLION/3523/3161/11.45
IBIZA/6295/7597/-17.14
KEFALLINIA/2128/1789/18.95
KOS/1647/1447/13.82
LARNACA/3262/3667/-11.04
LAS PALMAS/1859/2314/-19.66
MAHON/5741/5590/2.70
MALAGA/9361/14300/-34.54 Reductions in rotations
MALTA/1114/904/23.23
MONASTIR/3609/0/100 New Route
MURCIA SAN JAVIER/3637/3584/1.48
PALMA DE MALLORCA/17077/19135/-10.76
PAPHOS/4304/4351/-1.08
PARIS/3213/3483/-7.75
REUS 3429/3015/13.73
RHODES/3472/3418/1.58
SHARM EL SHEIKH/2050/2220/-7.66
TENERIFE SOUTH/3547/3764/-5.77
ZAKINTHOS 3062/3491/-12.29
IN BOLD ARE THE BIG CHANGES.
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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So the 'hugely popular', 'wildly successful' - and subsidised to death - North South connection managed to get a 45% load factor.
Wow....
TA
Wow....
TA
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Twin Aisle
Do you bang on as much about the PSO routes in Scotland and Ireland? There are plenty of them. Wales has one, so what is the problem? You can use it if you please, it is not just for politicians.
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Kerry Quinn is the Cardiff Airport Operations Director rather than MD.
In a recent meeting she seems like a very approachable person who would like to gain experience in various departments within the airport including baggage etc.
I would imagine that Ms Quinn is still getting to grips with the operation at CWL and we will not see any changes within the next month or two.
In a recent meeting she seems like a very approachable person who would like to gain experience in various departments within the airport including baggage etc.
I would imagine that Ms Quinn is still getting to grips with the operation at CWL and we will not see any changes within the next month or two.
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You guys with the rose tinted spectacles can think what you like about the NS Airlink. Personally, I prefer to look at the cold, hard facts. Why not put some of your own up against me, rather than just make pointless posts?
Here's a few for you to chew on:
1. 45% load factor
2. A subsidy which, from the WAG's own report, amounts to GBP 12,000 per return trip per passenger (based on new business passenger journeys generated)
3. And a benefit - stated by WAG's own report - that "one business is considering setting up an office in North Wales as a result of the service"
Even Plaid Cymru are abandoning their support for this route.
If someone wants to do this route, great. But these subsidies are obscene.
As for complaining about PSO - I am not opposed to PSO, but I am opposed to misuse of the PSO rules. I'm not going to bore you again with why the Wales link is a misuse, I just can't be bothered. Go and read the regulations for yourselves....
TA
Here's a few for you to chew on:
1. 45% load factor
2. A subsidy which, from the WAG's own report, amounts to GBP 12,000 per return trip per passenger (based on new business passenger journeys generated)
3. And a benefit - stated by WAG's own report - that "one business is considering setting up an office in North Wales as a result of the service"
Even Plaid Cymru are abandoning their support for this route.
If someone wants to do this route, great. But these subsidies are obscene.
As for complaining about PSO - I am not opposed to PSO, but I am opposed to misuse of the PSO rules. I'm not going to bore you again with why the Wales link is a misuse, I just can't be bothered. Go and read the regulations for yourselves....
TA
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Twin Aisle i understand that you don't like the route and you are entitled to your opinion.
But you keep on playing that same record and are start becoming a bore.
As a supporter of the aviation in Wales and want to see it grow if it's 2 flights a day then i'm happy with that. And it's two flights more a day that saves me being forced to look down the job centre.
We should be greatful of what we got and should be fighting for more not for less.
Oh yeah and by the way why don't you pop along to the Jet2 thread and Glasgow thread and complain about the latest anouncement and the amount of money is being used there?
But you keep on playing that same record and are start becoming a bore.
As a supporter of the aviation in Wales and want to see it grow if it's 2 flights a day then i'm happy with that. And it's two flights more a day that saves me being forced to look down the job centre.
We should be greatful of what we got and should be fighting for more not for less.
Oh yeah and by the way why don't you pop along to the Jet2 thread and Glasgow thread and complain about the latest anouncement and the amount of money is being used there?
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You just don't get it, do you, Mathers? Using money like this is PREVENTING the airport from growing, not encouraging it. There is a finite amount of money available in the government pot for projects like this, and Glasgow has quite clearly spent its money much more wisely than WAG did.
Given that Delta would be a much better prospect for CWL than VLY, why was the money not spent on THAT project?
WAG have a very poor track record as regards aviation, and shouting hurrah at their mistakes is not going to help them get any better...
TA
Given that Delta would be a much better prospect for CWL than VLY, why was the money not spent on THAT project?
WAG have a very poor track record as regards aviation, and shouting hurrah at their mistakes is not going to help them get any better...
TA
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They will never have the balls to cover the losses of a CWL-JFK/EWR service and you know that.
Considering that i doubt the WAG even look at forums such as these then i'm guessing it's a waste of time.
Have you ever appraoched the WAG direct and expressed your sincere dissatisfaction and offer your views as an industry proffesional?
And in regards to the views of the rest if Plaid Cymru party then they would also see RAF Valley closed and no low flying sorties in Mid Wales. So i think we should really take no notice to their opinions as we would loose a lot of money if that happened including jobs.
If Manx2.com wasn't the operator of CWL-VLY then we wouldn't have seen the VLY-IOM service which wasn't operated under a PSO.
Considering that i doubt the WAG even look at forums such as these then i'm guessing it's a waste of time.
Have you ever appraoched the WAG direct and expressed your sincere dissatisfaction and offer your views as an industry proffesional?
And in regards to the views of the rest if Plaid Cymru party then they would also see RAF Valley closed and no low flying sorties in Mid Wales. So i think we should really take no notice to their opinions as we would loose a lot of money if that happened including jobs.
If Manx2.com wasn't the operator of CWL-VLY then we wouldn't have seen the VLY-IOM service which wasn't operated under a PSO.
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The potential losses from a New York service are actually unlikely to reach the sort of levels being seen in terms of subsidy on the airlink, and in any case, they can be contractually capped to limit both DL's exposure and WAG's, so that argument holds no water I am afraid.
Have I been in touch with the assembly? Yes, I have many friends both in WAG and in the Assembly. However, this is a political issue supported by the Deputy First Minister (if not his party) and as such the only way to change his mind is to change the level of general support for the project amongst the public AND the elected members.
We have to take notice of PC. They are the party in coalition government in Wales!! However we may see their views as odd, they cannot be ignored. And even a stopped clock is right twice a day...
The IOM flight does not connect with the airlink, so to say that Wales wouldn't have got the IOM without the airlink is not correct. Sorry. That shows how a route should be run.
Have I been in touch with the assembly? Yes, I have many friends both in WAG and in the Assembly. However, this is a political issue supported by the Deputy First Minister (if not his party) and as such the only way to change his mind is to change the level of general support for the project amongst the public AND the elected members.
We have to take notice of PC. They are the party in coalition government in Wales!! However we may see their views as odd, they cannot be ignored. And even a stopped clock is right twice a day...
The IOM flight does not connect with the airlink, so to say that Wales wouldn't have got the IOM without the airlink is not correct. Sorry. That shows how a route should be run.
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Leave The North-west Link!
Dear Welsh Aviation Readers!
Please stop slagging off the vital North-South Link route. I use this route every week and without it Wales will be turned into a third world country! We cant rely on these useless trains that Arriva trains Wales use and the time saved by travelling by air makes the route very attractive to locals and visitors.
Please start supporting the route, if not it wont be long before the route gets scrapped
BW
Please stop slagging off the vital North-South Link route. I use this route every week and without it Wales will be turned into a third world country! We cant rely on these useless trains that Arriva trains Wales use and the time saved by travelling by air makes the route very attractive to locals and visitors.
Please start supporting the route, if not it wont be long before the route gets scrapped
BW