CARDIFF
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Ah yes, I rather like this system. Otherwise featured at AMS, LHR T5 and BRS. Any many other places I don't doubt.
I rather like the female.. she has such a striking Dutch accent.
AviaVox | Downloads
I rather like the female.. she has such a striking Dutch accent.
AviaVox | Downloads
Join Date: Aug 2000
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This post will not make me popular but having raised finance for companies within and outside the aviation industry I hope my post will be seen as constructive and not condescending.
WAN should be applauded for its enthusiasm and passion. The aim appears to be to enhance the growth of aviation in Wales but looking at the website it comes across to me as an outsider as a group of eager enthusiasts with no clear message or policy. There is no indication of the best way to raise the profile of Welsh aviation or attempt to attract finance to further that end. I am sure within its 220 members exists a core of professionals, but, they are somewhat hidden behind all the smoke.
If WAN feels it has the ability amongst its members to make a difference why not raise enough seed corn to attract an outside investor to foster your aims. A really good business plan and you will find a backer(s) sufficiently passionate about Wales prepared to take things further. Investors want to see not only a good plan but your own financial commitment to it and this could lead the way to put together a package genuinely beneficial to Cardiff and the rest of Wales.
You can pontificate all you like, speculate as to who might and who might not add routes and get upset at the comments others make but unless positive steps are taken you will still be making the same comments in many years time. You seem to want to make a difference guys, maybe you can, before you go to war though I do suggest you rearrange the troops so the infantry are not preventing the tanks from shooting!
I shall now retire to my bunker.
WAN should be applauded for its enthusiasm and passion. The aim appears to be to enhance the growth of aviation in Wales but looking at the website it comes across to me as an outsider as a group of eager enthusiasts with no clear message or policy. There is no indication of the best way to raise the profile of Welsh aviation or attempt to attract finance to further that end. I am sure within its 220 members exists a core of professionals, but, they are somewhat hidden behind all the smoke.
If WAN feels it has the ability amongst its members to make a difference why not raise enough seed corn to attract an outside investor to foster your aims. A really good business plan and you will find a backer(s) sufficiently passionate about Wales prepared to take things further. Investors want to see not only a good plan but your own financial commitment to it and this could lead the way to put together a package genuinely beneficial to Cardiff and the rest of Wales.
You can pontificate all you like, speculate as to who might and who might not add routes and get upset at the comments others make but unless positive steps are taken you will still be making the same comments in many years time. You seem to want to make a difference guys, maybe you can, before you go to war though I do suggest you rearrange the troops so the infantry are not preventing the tanks from shooting!
I shall now retire to my bunker.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Many thanks for your contribution Groundhog.
After a meeting with the Welsh Assembly Government the Wales Air Network will begin drawing up a 3 year plan in relation to aims ad objectives including our vision for aviation not only for Cardiff but Wales in general.
These will include raising funds for WAN itself and improving the website. Afterall WAN is a volunteer group
You are correct in the assumption that the majority are indeed enthusiasts however the WAN will be looking at way in which we can work closer with indusrty professionals.
Your comments are welcomed and if you wish to send more detailed observations then you can do so by PM
After a meeting with the Welsh Assembly Government the Wales Air Network will begin drawing up a 3 year plan in relation to aims ad objectives including our vision for aviation not only for Cardiff but Wales in general.
These will include raising funds for WAN itself and improving the website. Afterall WAN is a volunteer group
You are correct in the assumption that the majority are indeed enthusiasts however the WAN will be looking at way in which we can work closer with indusrty professionals.
Your comments are welcomed and if you wish to send more detailed observations then you can do so by PM
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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?... the WAN will be looking at way in which we can work closer with indusrty professionals.
That may mean that you actually get some professionals on the site...
PeterP, I am sure that you really do realise that many of us on this thread - the overwhelming bulk of the posters, and I would wager all the Welsh ones - share your hopes and aspirations for Cardiff. But it ill behoves you to dismiss all who don't agree with you and WAN as negative - several of us on here have been pointing out how the airport can attract operators, and it boils down to 'getting figures that show there is a market'.
I know that is hard, and not as much fun as pontificating as to whether ThomsonFly should use a 757 not a 737 on the Thursday PMI, but that is the question that someone needs to get answers to. Answering other, easier questions rather puts me in mind of the old joke about the police officer, who, having asked a man what he is doing on all fours at midnight in St Mary's Street, gets the answer "looking for the tenner I lost in Cathays - the light is so much better here"...
It's not negative to keep steering people back to the question that needs an answer. It is however potentially negative, as Groundhog noted, to keep pontificating on the soft questions....
TA
Join Date: Dec 2005
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WAN membership is substantially industry insiders/professionals. One or two may have dropped out because they could not cope with criticism of their own organisations - which, of course, includes you, TA - or were instructed to leave by their Spanish bosses. They were quickly replaced by more meaningful and constructive members. Now we are getting close to being a stakeholder organisation, rather than simply p*ssing into the tent. Sorry if that leaves some people isolated or feeling left out. However, the remedy is simple: join in, commit to Wales's aviation and put in some effort. Spitting tin tacks from the sidelines is not a mature approach.,
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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I actually think you believe your own propaganda, Peter.
You believe whatever makes you happy. The rest of the world will get on with their lives and their careers.
Applies rather more to WAN than PPRUNE...
A moment's reading of the WAN forum will rapidly dispel your notion that
And I notice that once again, playing the man not the ball, your modus operandi, means that you failed to answer one substantive point raised by any of us in the last ten pages....
TA
You believe whatever makes you happy. The rest of the world will get on with their lives and their careers.
Spitting tin tacks from the sidelines is not a mature approach
A moment's reading of the WAN forum will rapidly dispel your notion that
WAN membership is substantially industry insiders/professionals
TA
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WAN talking to WAG and creating a three year plan is like walking in to Tesco with a shopping list, you both want to fill the basket but Tesco can't afford to give the goods away and you don't have a credit card.
Money talks bullsh+t walks if you have no means to put your own cash on the table how can you convince others to?
Money talks bullsh+t walks if you have no means to put your own cash on the table how can you convince others to?
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Nice bit of artwork! Is there anyone following this that understands the supermarket bit, though? I certainly don't. Could someone explain?
And, TA, you really do not want Wales Air Network to bite back. You have pushed us very close to doing so. How do you feel about the potential for WAN and how it might go forward?
And, TA, you really do not want Wales Air Network to bite back. You have pushed us very close to doing so. How do you feel about the potential for WAN and how it might go forward?
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Ah Manuel, let me explain.
I thought TA had made it quite clear how he/she feels CWL should go forward. Earlier posts I see even recommend TA as airport MD.
I have enjoyed the constructive posting on this thread so please people can I politely request we try to keep it as just that and not a slanging match.
Thankyou.
I thought TA had made it quite clear how he/she feels CWL should go forward. Earlier posts I see even recommend TA as airport MD.
I have enjoyed the constructive posting on this thread so please people can I politely request we try to keep it as just that and not a slanging match.
Thankyou.
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But Peter,
If what one is trying to achieve is, odds on, not going to succeed is it correct that everybody live in cloud cuckoo land and/or is it incorrect that somebody might speak in the real world?
Whilst I am currently living in Wales I don't particularly care, because I'm emigrating, but I seriously hope not too much more taxpayers money is misappropriated in to unviable air routes, airports (Angelsey) etc.
Somebody needs to wake up and preferably before too much taxpayers money is wasted!
If what one is trying to achieve is, odds on, not going to succeed is it correct that everybody live in cloud cuckoo land and/or is it incorrect that somebody might speak in the real world?
Whilst I am currently living in Wales I don't particularly care, because I'm emigrating, but I seriously hope not too much more taxpayers money is misappropriated in to unviable air routes, airports (Angelsey) etc.
Somebody needs to wake up and preferably before too much taxpayers money is wasted!
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Phileas ... enjoying this calm before you-know-who turns it into a storm.
How can anyone know what Wales Air Network might achieve? This kind of thing has never been tried before, anywhere in the world.
WAN's not about PSOs (we have specific views on that) or even about being a forum (the latter is done much better by PPruNe.) We kicked off being a pressure group and are now morphing into a stakeholder force for the good of Welsh aviation. Will we manage it? Who can tell. But we are the only ones giving it a go.
Wales Air Network is just 18 months or so old. It has engaged in many quarters and got the attention of decision-makers, the media and the on-line community. To spit tin tacks at this valuable bunch of volunteers is of no value and suggests a hidden agenda. To support it? That doesn't mean agreeing with me ... it means contributing to the achievement of our commonly-held goals.
Yes, I'm stung personally by some comments on here. They are made by someone who knows that WAN exists on several platforms, represents hundreds of people both in and out of the industry and yet tries to portray us as amateurs. That is one of the hidden agendas I mention and, if I continue to be under attack because of that agenda in front of this valued PPruNe audience, I will have to start getting more honest than would be welcome.
On the other hand, I think that the Cardiff thread on PPruNe continues to be entertaining and informative. Not constructive, though.,
How can anyone know what Wales Air Network might achieve? This kind of thing has never been tried before, anywhere in the world.
WAN's not about PSOs (we have specific views on that) or even about being a forum (the latter is done much better by PPruNe.) We kicked off being a pressure group and are now morphing into a stakeholder force for the good of Welsh aviation. Will we manage it? Who can tell. But we are the only ones giving it a go.
Wales Air Network is just 18 months or so old. It has engaged in many quarters and got the attention of decision-makers, the media and the on-line community. To spit tin tacks at this valuable bunch of volunteers is of no value and suggests a hidden agenda. To support it? That doesn't mean agreeing with me ... it means contributing to the achievement of our commonly-held goals.
Yes, I'm stung personally by some comments on here. They are made by someone who knows that WAN exists on several platforms, represents hundreds of people both in and out of the industry and yet tries to portray us as amateurs. That is one of the hidden agendas I mention and, if I continue to be under attack because of that agenda in front of this valued PPruNe audience, I will have to start getting more honest than would be welcome.
On the other hand, I think that the Cardiff thread on PPruNe continues to be entertaining and informative. Not constructive, though.,
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Peter,
When I worked at CWL, many years ago, the saying was that they'd come out of the Valleys once a year, for their holiday, and then return until the next year ..... no offence intended to any individual.
How may 'airports' does Wales have, realistically speaking, aside from CWL, it has airfields with less than ideal runway dimensions and a military air base or few.
Besides an ex military airfield local to the village of Rhoose there is a reason, or few, why another airfield/airport has never become developed in Wales, they tried to develop Haverfordwest gawd knows how many times ... it never succeeded, why?
When I worked at CWL, many years ago, the saying was that they'd come out of the Valleys once a year, for their holiday, and then return until the next year ..... no offence intended to any individual.
How may 'airports' does Wales have, realistically speaking, aside from CWL, it has airfields with less than ideal runway dimensions and a military air base or few.
Besides an ex military airfield local to the village of Rhoose there is a reason, or few, why another airfield/airport has never become developed in Wales, they tried to develop Haverfordwest gawd knows how many times ... it never succeeded, why?
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Phileas, Wales' rich heritage of runways should not be considered solely in terms of scheduled or charter traffic. Each individual airport business can be explored in terms of its own marketplace. Wales Air Network would suggest that there should be more work done on our leisure, training and general aviation potential; that property investment next to certain runways could produce MRO or even cargo traffic; that our sporting and short-term tourism traffic needs a great deal of thought. Etc. The potential boils down to ideas, commitment and - rather than knee-jerk criticism - a positive approach.
Look at our aims, posted to this thread, and you'll see that our vision is not only exciting but also sensible and achievable. We are an aviation nation that needs to get its act together. At the moment, Wales Air Network is the only game in town trying to do this.
Look at our aims, posted to this thread, and you'll see that our vision is not only exciting but also sensible and achievable. We are an aviation nation that needs to get its act together. At the moment, Wales Air Network is the only game in town trying to do this.
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Peter,
You are an "Aviation Nation"? Are you referring to Wales or UK in general because if you might be referring to Wales, as in 'Wales Air Network' rather than 'UK Air Network', then, with just one (realistic) airport in the country, you do need to get out more!
Some might argue Wales has airports other than CWL, sure Wales does, likewise I can rename my house as a castle but that doesn't mean King Arthur and his buddies are going to come calling anytime soon!
You are an "Aviation Nation"? Are you referring to Wales or UK in general because if you might be referring to Wales, as in 'Wales Air Network' rather than 'UK Air Network', then, with just one (realistic) airport in the country, you do need to get out more!
Some might argue Wales has airports other than CWL, sure Wales does, likewise I can rename my house as a castle but that doesn't mean King Arthur and his buddies are going to come calling anytime soon!