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Join Date: Dec 2007
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195 on board, so not as many as usual for the cruise flights. It went via Halifax, even though P&O had informed majority of PAX it was direct. Was a bit of a mess... first of all, Hall B security were ready to close when check in was meant to open, then it started checking in at hall B until systems went down so was moved to hall A, PAX were queueing all down the terminal and trying to push trolleys down stairs by hall B. Aparently it had to depart by 11 due to noise restrictions and it been a 767? Never realised this before, but it went at 11.20 PM ish anyway.
Looks like they are making the already small arrivals area smaller with the addition of the arrows taxi desk also.
If LBIA is to start any kind of long haul ops with the current terminal, things are going to need organising much better!
Cheers,
Looks like they are making the already small arrivals area smaller with the addition of the arrows taxi desk also.
If LBIA is to start any kind of long haul ops with the current terminal, things are going to need organising much better!
Cheers,
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I don't understand the noise restriction? The airport's noise restrictions were lifted years ago for chapter 3 aircraft. Thomson's operated a based 767 round the clock only a couple of years back with hardly any problems so I can't see what the problem is.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Can I ask everyone, what the hell is going on at LBA?
If Leeds is to be taken seriously as a major city, it needs a major airport. It is not this nor will it be after the implentation of the masterplan (do we really have to wait till 2016 for improvements.)
I am sick of watching other airports develop and get some really good international flights and have to travel to either MAN/LHR/AMS for these flights.
The RW and conditions mean that its not feasible to run larger aircraft on a regular basis from the airport. Why not fill in the large hole, re-tarmac and extend NOW. We all know that the 757/767 will float half way down the RW on automated landings.
Bigger better RW=Bigger better aircraft=New international flights=Increased revenue for the airport
The wind problem - puts hairs on your chest everytime you come into LBA!
The terminal building is now painful. It used to be great before the pax numbers increased but now it is a joke. (security, few seats, the bar, cafe etc, all embarrasingly inept). It needs to be substantially bigger & better.
The route network, or lack of it, most people get lost on their first visit.
As a local person I really want the owners of Leeds to grab this airport by the scruff and invest now, especially after years of nothing! Or are we yet to remain as a joke and watch others continue to overtake us and develop. The masterplan is too little too later!
If Leeds is to be taken seriously as a major city, it needs a major airport. It is not this nor will it be after the implentation of the masterplan (do we really have to wait till 2016 for improvements.)
I am sick of watching other airports develop and get some really good international flights and have to travel to either MAN/LHR/AMS for these flights.
The RW and conditions mean that its not feasible to run larger aircraft on a regular basis from the airport. Why not fill in the large hole, re-tarmac and extend NOW. We all know that the 757/767 will float half way down the RW on automated landings.
Bigger better RW=Bigger better aircraft=New international flights=Increased revenue for the airport
The wind problem - puts hairs on your chest everytime you come into LBA!
The terminal building is now painful. It used to be great before the pax numbers increased but now it is a joke. (security, few seats, the bar, cafe etc, all embarrasingly inept). It needs to be substantially bigger & better.
The route network, or lack of it, most people get lost on their first visit.
As a local person I really want the owners of Leeds to grab this airport by the scruff and invest now, especially after years of nothing! Or are we yet to remain as a joke and watch others continue to overtake us and develop. The masterplan is too little too later!
Join Date: Dec 2007
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As much as I like LBA I have to agree things are a joke at the moment, terminal wise, it clearly cannot effectively handle the amount of PAX using it.
Before I left my job up there towards end of summer, the rumours were the building work was starting in October, then just before I left I heard it had been delayed 3 months? I had heard the plans were to extend the current terminal across the short stay car parks etc.
Does anyone know when work is now due to start, or why it was delayed? Are they re considering an extension, or have they reliased themselves it would be better to knock down the existing terminal and start a fresh (unlikely but we can wish...)?
I thought Bridgepoint said soon after they took over they wanted to announce new routes etc? Maybe I am wrong, but no sign of any decent route expansion for months, apart from Jet2 of course. The Ryanair Shannon route started, have Flybe dropped a few, BMI dont seem to have as many routes these days. Thomas Cook annouced they are doing charters next summer, Thomsonfly have only 4 routes (will they even bother operating them or just move people to DSA?), Shaheen air flights aparently on sale but not confirmed by airport (will be a laugh to see that checking in down at hall A).
Also how long has Hall B got left? The tent is only a temp building, dont they have to pull it down at some point?
Not much going on, guess everyone is just waiting on any definitive annoucements on what the plan actually is.....?
Cheers,
Before I left my job up there towards end of summer, the rumours were the building work was starting in October, then just before I left I heard it had been delayed 3 months? I had heard the plans were to extend the current terminal across the short stay car parks etc.
Does anyone know when work is now due to start, or why it was delayed? Are they re considering an extension, or have they reliased themselves it would be better to knock down the existing terminal and start a fresh (unlikely but we can wish...)?
I thought Bridgepoint said soon after they took over they wanted to announce new routes etc? Maybe I am wrong, but no sign of any decent route expansion for months, apart from Jet2 of course. The Ryanair Shannon route started, have Flybe dropped a few, BMI dont seem to have as many routes these days. Thomas Cook annouced they are doing charters next summer, Thomsonfly have only 4 routes (will they even bother operating them or just move people to DSA?), Shaheen air flights aparently on sale but not confirmed by airport (will be a laugh to see that checking in down at hall A).
Also how long has Hall B got left? The tent is only a temp building, dont they have to pull it down at some point?
Not much going on, guess everyone is just waiting on any definitive annoucements on what the plan actually is.....?
Cheers,
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I agree the terminal is straining at the seams at particular times of the day and something needs to be done quickly if the growth is to continue.
In the short term, maybe offering incentives for airlines to use the terminal at less busy times may be a short term answer. This would then enable limited growth in pax numbers with the facilities we currently have. The terminal isn't particularly pushed in the evening hours for departures (post 6pm).
2008 should push LBA quite comfortably through the 3m mark with the current route expansions which have been confirmed (by Jet2). Still find it amazing that the airport haven't announced offically the new Shaheen flights - surely this new route would be something they would want to shout about quite loudly ?
In the short term, maybe offering incentives for airlines to use the terminal at less busy times may be a short term answer. This would then enable limited growth in pax numbers with the facilities we currently have. The terminal isn't particularly pushed in the evening hours for departures (post 6pm).
2008 should push LBA quite comfortably through the 3m mark with the current route expansions which have been confirmed (by Jet2). Still find it amazing that the airport haven't announced offically the new Shaheen flights - surely this new route would be something they would want to shout about quite loudly ?
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The masterplan was not binding and it was the previous incumbent’s view of the world. While I imagine some of the airside operational proposals will be embraced by the new owners, given many were examples of common sense, as a blueprint for the airport’s strategy and direction it became instantly devalued the moment the airport was sold.
The extracts below from the LBACC meeting in July and the press in November should explain what the general plan is terminal wise. There is a lot to put right here and completing a major overhaul whilst keeping the business open and functioning is always going to be a challenge and one which requires careful planning.
In terms of PR for Shaheen services, there is very little to be gained by making a big song and dance about this considering it’s a niche market and the security headaches it brings.
682
Leeds Bradford Airport Consultative Committee : 24th July 2007.
Item 863 : Terminal Developments
Mr PW presented a presentation on the proposed developments made by Bridgepoint Capital Ltd to extend and improve the terminal building. The airport was currently facing the problems of;
congestion in some areas
layout and space challenges in the security area
the constantly changing security measures
passenger cross flow problems
inadequate floor space
too much landside space dedicated to the provision of refreshment facilities
As a result of an extensive study, changes to the terminal building were proposed which included an extension to the front of the terminal building. An enlarged security search area would be relocated to the first floor and extensions would include increased lounge areas and improved commercial facilities
Item 865: Change of Ownership
The managing director submitted a written report which provided information on the sale of the airport company. LBIA was sold to Bridgepoint Capital Ltd on 2 May 2007. Sir Graham Hall has been appointed as Chair of the new board of directors. The other board members were two non-executive directors nominated by Bridgepoint and three existing executive directors. In support of their vision, Bridgepoint had outlined a 3 point plan for the airport.
1. Route development
2. Commercial revenues
3. Investment Plan - a commitment to very significant investment levels over the coming years. This included a major development of the terminal building for which the planning had already started and on which construction should commence in 2008 for completion in 2009. This would provide the capacity to accommodate the forecast additional passenger throughput and allow the creation of the enhanced commercial facilities.
YEP interview with John Parkin 19 NOV 2007-12-31
Over the next 12 months there will be some physical changes in advance of the major upgrade works 'when people will notice the really big changes' and the plan is for that to happen in 2009 – with careful planning ensuring that it will not affect the running of the business.
"It gives us the chance to re-engineer the way this place works – make it simpler and easier to use, with more space for the passengers and a better environment; to design in a better experience – the best experience – with half an eye on the changing regulatory and security related environment that we have to deal with and that people understand.
The extracts below from the LBACC meeting in July and the press in November should explain what the general plan is terminal wise. There is a lot to put right here and completing a major overhaul whilst keeping the business open and functioning is always going to be a challenge and one which requires careful planning.
In terms of PR for Shaheen services, there is very little to be gained by making a big song and dance about this considering it’s a niche market and the security headaches it brings.
682
Leeds Bradford Airport Consultative Committee : 24th July 2007.
Item 863 : Terminal Developments
Mr PW presented a presentation on the proposed developments made by Bridgepoint Capital Ltd to extend and improve the terminal building. The airport was currently facing the problems of;
congestion in some areas
layout and space challenges in the security area
the constantly changing security measures
passenger cross flow problems
inadequate floor space
too much landside space dedicated to the provision of refreshment facilities
As a result of an extensive study, changes to the terminal building were proposed which included an extension to the front of the terminal building. An enlarged security search area would be relocated to the first floor and extensions would include increased lounge areas and improved commercial facilities
Item 865: Change of Ownership
The managing director submitted a written report which provided information on the sale of the airport company. LBIA was sold to Bridgepoint Capital Ltd on 2 May 2007. Sir Graham Hall has been appointed as Chair of the new board of directors. The other board members were two non-executive directors nominated by Bridgepoint and three existing executive directors. In support of their vision, Bridgepoint had outlined a 3 point plan for the airport.
1. Route development
2. Commercial revenues
3. Investment Plan - a commitment to very significant investment levels over the coming years. This included a major development of the terminal building for which the planning had already started and on which construction should commence in 2008 for completion in 2009. This would provide the capacity to accommodate the forecast additional passenger throughput and allow the creation of the enhanced commercial facilities.
YEP interview with John Parkin 19 NOV 2007-12-31
Over the next 12 months there will be some physical changes in advance of the major upgrade works 'when people will notice the really big changes' and the plan is for that to happen in 2009 – with careful planning ensuring that it will not affect the running of the business.
"It gives us the chance to re-engineer the way this place works – make it simpler and easier to use, with more space for the passengers and a better environment; to design in a better experience – the best experience – with half an eye on the changing regulatory and security related environment that we have to deal with and that people understand.
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Interesting post.
My guess is that this new area will be built on the set-down area/taxi rank, essentially connecting Check-In A&B on the ground floor level. Should make passenger flow a lot more sensible.
Looking at terminal maps, the ground floor is relatively straight-forward to do, with just domestic arrivals to consider, and also creates a lot of new space. On the first floor a lot of reconfiguration would be needed, I suppose the "staff only" area could be moved downstairs into the space created down there. The burger king/yates, etc would become airside and the "void overlooking Hall A" could be filled in to create a large, centralised, waiting lounge, the gates on the ground floor would be lost, however, unless a staircase were to be built connecting to the first floor. A fairly major remodeling should result in a lot more pax being able to progress through the terminal before an extension is needed. At the end of the day, its the security, passenger flow and gate waiting areas that are the biggest 3 problems, there is enough space if it were used correctly.
Brian.
My guess is that this new area will be built on the set-down area/taxi rank, essentially connecting Check-In A&B on the ground floor level. Should make passenger flow a lot more sensible.
Looking at terminal maps, the ground floor is relatively straight-forward to do, with just domestic arrivals to consider, and also creates a lot of new space. On the first floor a lot of reconfiguration would be needed, I suppose the "staff only" area could be moved downstairs into the space created down there. The burger king/yates, etc would become airside and the "void overlooking Hall A" could be filled in to create a large, centralised, waiting lounge, the gates on the ground floor would be lost, however, unless a staircase were to be built connecting to the first floor. A fairly major remodeling should result in a lot more pax being able to progress through the terminal before an extension is needed. At the end of the day, its the security, passenger flow and gate waiting areas that are the biggest 3 problems, there is enough space if it were used correctly.
Brian.
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Passenger flow is a major problem, especially when it comes to boarding. Gate 4, 5, 7 and 8 seem to be the only really useable ones, and even then 4 and 5 have a poor excuse for fences/chains to keep PAX separate, and 7 and 8 can't be used if there is an inbound flight! 7a requires PAX to walk across the inbound corridor then past gate 7, 2 can only be used to board onto a bus across the airside road, 3 is only useful for stand 8 - which has an airbridge, and 5a means PAX have to go upstairs then downstairs before being out on the ramp - not pleasant for the elderly/prams. Domestic arrivals is not too bad - close to the domestic stands.
Extend the terminal down to say stand 15/16, reducing congestion boarding onto stands 8-16, have stands 15/16-18 as walking ones and use buses for 19-24. It wouldn't have to be particularly wide extension, enough for more seating and the all important shops. Then you could have a walkway on the ground floor to international arrivals, which could be repositioned closer to int. stands so PAX would enter baggage reclaim from the opposite side to current. phew!
Extend the terminal down to say stand 15/16, reducing congestion boarding onto stands 8-16, have stands 15/16-18 as walking ones and use buses for 19-24. It wouldn't have to be particularly wide extension, enough for more seating and the all important shops. Then you could have a walkway on the ground floor to international arrivals, which could be repositioned closer to int. stands so PAX would enter baggage reclaim from the opposite side to current. phew!
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Passenger flow is a major problem, especially when it comes to boarding. Gate 4, 5, 7 and 8 seem to be the only really useable ones, and even then 4 and 5 have a poor excuse for fences/chains to keep PAX separate, and 7 and 8 can't be used if there is an inbound flight! 7a requires PAX to walk across the inbound corridor then past gate 7, 2 can only be used to board onto a bus across the airside road, 3 is only useful for stand 8 - which has an airbridge, and 5a means PAX have to go upstairs then downstairs before being out on the ramp - not pleasant for the elderly/prams. Domestic arrivals is not too bad - close to the domestic stands.
Hall B, is this a Temporary structure, or is it to permanent?
Brian.
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Can I ask everyone, what the hell is going on at LBA?
If Leeds is to be taken seriously as a major city, it needs a major airport. It is not this nor will it be after the implentation of the masterplan (do we really have to wait till 2016 for improvements.)
I am sick of watching other airports develop and get some really good international flights and have to travel to either MAN/LHR/AMS for these flights.
The RW and conditions mean that its not feasible to run larger aircraft on a regular basis from the airport. Why not fill in the large hole, re-tarmac and extend NOW. We all know that the 757/767 will float half way down the RW on automated landings.
Bigger better RW=Bigger better aircraft=New international flights=Increased revenue for the airport
The wind problem - puts hairs on your chest everytime you come into LBA!
The terminal building is now painful. It used to be great before the pax numbers increased but now it is a joke. (security, few seats, the bar, cafe etc, all embarrasingly inept). It needs to be substantially bigger & better.
The route network, or lack of it, most people get lost on their first visit.
As a local person I really want the owners of Leeds to grab this airport by the scruff and invest now, especially after years of nothing! Or are we yet to remain as a joke and watch others continue to overtake us and develop. The masterplan is too little too later!
If Leeds is to be taken seriously as a major city, it needs a major airport. It is not this nor will it be after the implentation of the masterplan (do we really have to wait till 2016 for improvements.)
I am sick of watching other airports develop and get some really good international flights and have to travel to either MAN/LHR/AMS for these flights.
The RW and conditions mean that its not feasible to run larger aircraft on a regular basis from the airport. Why not fill in the large hole, re-tarmac and extend NOW. We all know that the 757/767 will float half way down the RW on automated landings.
Bigger better RW=Bigger better aircraft=New international flights=Increased revenue for the airport
The wind problem - puts hairs on your chest everytime you come into LBA!
The terminal building is now painful. It used to be great before the pax numbers increased but now it is a joke. (security, few seats, the bar, cafe etc, all embarrasingly inept). It needs to be substantially bigger & better.
The route network, or lack of it, most people get lost on their first visit.
As a local person I really want the owners of Leeds to grab this airport by the scruff and invest now, especially after years of nothing! Or are we yet to remain as a joke and watch others continue to overtake us and develop. The masterplan is too little too later!
Where do I start
I agree with all you have said 'mightymouse' Basically the problem with Yeadon Airport or LBIA as it was known until Leeds & Bradford Councils sold up, Is the Marketing.We have being telling them for years, that they are too 'slow' on the uptake, By the time the Airport has thought about it MAN Airport has done it
It has always had a dark cloud over it, I don't think it is a very friendly Airport to fly from, I live in the Kirklees area, But I use TOM obviously, And any other MAN flights.
Yeadon will always be a 'Toytown Airport' It had it's chances years ago, But like I have said, It is too = Slow, Perticular, & Unenthusiastic.
When you go into the Terminal you don't feel any 'Atmosphere' - It doesn't have the 'Buzz' like MAN does, Just desks of 'long faces'
Easyjet (U2) approached them years ago with a big offer before LIV, And what did they do they refused, Without no negotiations whatsoever.
Personally I don't think Yeadon has anything to offer me, I am not a perticular 'lover' of Jet 2, There is little Greek flights on offer, No Train connections, And a bus that takes 'forever' to get to Leeds.
I am sorry to have to feel like this, But I am just being honest, The Airport needs to get a grip quickly, And get the figures in to it's investors.
The only future I can see for Yeadon is as a 'Commuter' Link, maybe Jet 2 will stay, But it seems that the 757's spend more time 'DIV' to MAN recently due to the 'silly' reason of having no CAT111.
All Jet 2 is doing is buying the Airprt more lifetime, If they ever go then I don't think sadly it will have a long future ahead of it??
After all a handful of T3 J 41+ BD 145 Flights are not going to 'put the Bread on the table' are they
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A300boy
Sorry BYALPHAINDIA even though its New Years Day and I am feeling "groggy" I cannot allow you to slag our mountain landng strip off without reply !
Yep its a mess, but for me living in Yeadon vital for my travel needs I think Jet 2 have done a great job at Leeds and I am a frequent user and fan, but as you say all eggs in one basket is not the best way for the Airport to run a business. I suspect even if Jet 2 walked away from Leeds other airlines would take up the routes they left gehind as they have created a market and I for one only fly to places served from Leeds even if via Amsterdam.
Runway length and Cat 3 issues need in my opinion to be addressed asap I agree with you that these items are long overdue to be fixed but of course to resolve the problems planning permission issues may have to be revisited and lots of money spent. The Cat 3 works ok if you have a 737 size aircraft or smaller and the aircraft is not too heavy, also the wind needs to be light or from a good direction which it rarely is. I would rather travel back to Leeds in an aicraft that is able to land Cat 3 at Leeds than divert to Manchester in a bigger more comfortable one. Sabena used to be heaven with good regular services on Cat 3 capable aircraft, at that time my Brussels trips were a joy. The new operator on the route has made it unuseable and too unreliable for me to use, for instance next to no flights over Christmas and New Year and frequent cancellations, but its their business and they know why they do it and if it is better to have less flights/passengers and improve yields who am I to question them I just simply use our own Company flights from East Midlands. Maybe we should have a sponsored runway extension dig to help our new owners ! Happy New Year to all my aircrew colleagues and all other Pprune posters.
Yep its a mess, but for me living in Yeadon vital for my travel needs I think Jet 2 have done a great job at Leeds and I am a frequent user and fan, but as you say all eggs in one basket is not the best way for the Airport to run a business. I suspect even if Jet 2 walked away from Leeds other airlines would take up the routes they left gehind as they have created a market and I for one only fly to places served from Leeds even if via Amsterdam.
Runway length and Cat 3 issues need in my opinion to be addressed asap I agree with you that these items are long overdue to be fixed but of course to resolve the problems planning permission issues may have to be revisited and lots of money spent. The Cat 3 works ok if you have a 737 size aircraft or smaller and the aircraft is not too heavy, also the wind needs to be light or from a good direction which it rarely is. I would rather travel back to Leeds in an aicraft that is able to land Cat 3 at Leeds than divert to Manchester in a bigger more comfortable one. Sabena used to be heaven with good regular services on Cat 3 capable aircraft, at that time my Brussels trips were a joy. The new operator on the route has made it unuseable and too unreliable for me to use, for instance next to no flights over Christmas and New Year and frequent cancellations, but its their business and they know why they do it and if it is better to have less flights/passengers and improve yields who am I to question them I just simply use our own Company flights from East Midlands. Maybe we should have a sponsored runway extension dig to help our new owners ! Happy New Year to all my aircrew colleagues and all other Pprune posters.
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A300BOY -
The cost of Birmingham Airports 400m runway extension is pegged at £120million, thats £300K a metre - must be a big dig
Maybe we should have a sponsored runway extension dig to help our new owners ! Happy New Year to all my aircrew colleagues and all other Pprune posters.
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The cost of Birmingham Airports 400m runway extension is pegged at £120million, thats £300K a metre - must be a big dig
The weather played up again today causing a couple of divs to MAN.
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I was on the LS186 from Malaga and vis went down to 320 metres so obviously the 757 couldnt do it, was sat near a guy from the Paris flight on the bus back to Leeds and he said they were told visibility so not sure why they would get in with cat III??
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Maybe the ac had a fault or the crew were not current CAT3. Nice to see the BMI LHR flights getting in on CAT3 too. Shame the Tomsonfly 737 wasn't able to get in, surely their 737-800s are equipped the same as the RYR but then again it could be crew currency/equipment faults.
surely their 737-800s are equipped the same as the RYR but then again it could be crew currency/equipment faults.
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One was an Aer Arran ATR from ORK carrying a massive 6 pax ! It departed back to ORK empty.
I find loads can be hit or miss to be honest, sometimes a dozen pax, other times full -72 (68 - I think). Fares are wildly erratic as well! Although the advent of EI to MAN seems to have put manners on both WW to MAN and RE to LBA.
Brian.