LUTON - 6
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See the new traffic lights are helping the jams in the peaks - q round percival way was all the way back to the roundabout, q from the M1 back to the M1, q from the airport up to the M1 - great !! Bring back the roundabout. 
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The slowness of construction work in the upgrading of Airport Way / A 505 is truly breathtaking. Let’s remember that this project was started in June 2006 and signage was put up at the bottom of the approach road that the work would finish by December 2007.
So what has been achieved after 32 months of construction work that is helping to speed up the traffic? Nothing, in fact it is worse now than at anytime. We now have to suffer the complete closure of the A505 in both directions, which causes traffic mayhem morning and night. Not a single inch of road has yet opened as two lanes due to traffic cones. In fact there is still a section of road under the bridge that still hasn’t had a single layer of tarmac laid on it.
Everyday I play spot the worker. On one occasion at 11 in the morning I counted a grand total of 8 people covering the entire 1 mile project with not a single person working on the closed off section. According to the latest council bar chart the roadworks on the A505 will be finished at the end of February. Yeh right, not a chance will that happen so it will be another missed deadline for the council.
The sorry truth is the workforce was never large enough to complete this work in 18 months. Doubling the workforce would not have added cost to the job as the job could have been done twice as quick but ending this nightmare quickly was never on the agenda of Luton Borough Council.
In fact it is clear that they really don’t care. Who in their right mind would start 3 months of new roadworks on the diversion route? Yes you have guessed it Luton Borough Council. In fact they are so proud of what they have done they have created its own website which tells us of even more delays that can be expected. http://www.luton.gov.uk/media%20libr...%20leaflet.pdf
So what has been achieved after 32 months of construction work that is helping to speed up the traffic? Nothing, in fact it is worse now than at anytime. We now have to suffer the complete closure of the A505 in both directions, which causes traffic mayhem morning and night. Not a single inch of road has yet opened as two lanes due to traffic cones. In fact there is still a section of road under the bridge that still hasn’t had a single layer of tarmac laid on it.
Everyday I play spot the worker. On one occasion at 11 in the morning I counted a grand total of 8 people covering the entire 1 mile project with not a single person working on the closed off section. According to the latest council bar chart the roadworks on the A505 will be finished at the end of February. Yeh right, not a chance will that happen so it will be another missed deadline for the council.
The sorry truth is the workforce was never large enough to complete this work in 18 months. Doubling the workforce would not have added cost to the job as the job could have been done twice as quick but ending this nightmare quickly was never on the agenda of Luton Borough Council.
In fact it is clear that they really don’t care. Who in their right mind would start 3 months of new roadworks on the diversion route? Yes you have guessed it Luton Borough Council. In fact they are so proud of what they have done they have created its own website which tells us of even more delays that can be expected. http://www.luton.gov.uk/media%20libr...%20leaflet.pdf
Last edited by LTNman; 15th Feb 2009 at 07:03.
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Can any of you LTN natives know why that main road from the parkway station to the terminal is still closed.
When I flew in at the start of September there were signs saying it was a 8 week closure. Again in November and again in January,the diversion route is still in place.
The whole thing really adds on a chunk of time in getting the train to/from Central London. Even the airlines must notice a more significent drop off in business traffic compared with the neighbouring London Airports.
As an outsider, reading about the snow shambles aswell as the access road problems, aswell as having to pay to get the shuttle bus to the train, really puts the Airport in a bad light.
When I flew in at the start of September there were signs saying it was a 8 week closure. Again in November and again in January,the diversion route is still in place.
The whole thing really adds on a chunk of time in getting the train to/from Central London. Even the airlines must notice a more significent drop off in business traffic compared with the neighbouring London Airports.
As an outsider, reading about the snow shambles aswell as the access road problems, aswell as having to pay to get the shuttle bus to the train, really puts the Airport in a bad light.
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Can any of you LTN natives know why that main road from the parkway station to the terminal is still closed.
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easyJet threatens to sue LTN and LBC
Just listening to BBC 3CR and easyJet have been on the radio to explain how they are threatening to sue the airport and the Luton Borough Council £500,000 each respectively for their faliure to clear snow during the bad weather over the last few weeks...
LTN did seem to be one of the worst hit airports in the UK...
They are debating it on the radio now, and if easyJet are right to sue or if this is just part of compensation culture in this country... They have mentioned how other companies around the country lost money too in the bad weather and they are not sueing. They have an interview with the airline after 5pm...
There hasn't been any major spats between the airline and airport since the days of when Barclays had a share in the airport. Looks like the relationship could be due to sour again.
LTN did seem to be one of the worst hit airports in the UK...
They are debating it on the radio now, and if easyJet are right to sue or if this is just part of compensation culture in this country... They have mentioned how other companies around the country lost money too in the bad weather and they are not sueing. They have an interview with the airline after 5pm...
There hasn't been any major spats between the airline and airport since the days of when Barclays had a share in the airport. Looks like the relationship could be due to sour again.
aceatco, retired
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Didn't hear the interview (don't listen to 3CR!) but I have spent over 25 years organising snowclearing off that runway in one form or another and being in charge for some of it. 
One thing you learn early on is you can never be right, you can be 'slightly not wrong' at best. If you do a good job, no one thanks you, if you get it wrong, everyone beats a path to your door to complain.
Living not far from the airport I would say we have more than just a few cm of snow in the last couple of weeks. I am not surprised there have been lengthy closure periods.
The problem is in this country, we don't get enough snow. If we got feet of it every winter then we would gear up accordingly. But we don't and it is expensive kit to have sitting around. I recall that we had quite a good lot of kit but serviceability becauses a problem when it sits around much of the year, usually in the open.
If the weather is such that you take a hit once in a few years then in the long run it is probably not as expensive than having a lot of kit sitting around doing nothing and deteriorating. It is similar to an airline taking a decision to only have Cat II ILS and not III and taking a hit when conditions are really bad.
When it comes to snowclearing, everyone's an expert but few have actually done it.
One thing you learn early on is you can never be right, you can be 'slightly not wrong' at best. If you do a good job, no one thanks you, if you get it wrong, everyone beats a path to your door to complain.Living not far from the airport I would say we have more than just a few cm of snow in the last couple of weeks. I am not surprised there have been lengthy closure periods.
The problem is in this country, we don't get enough snow. If we got feet of it every winter then we would gear up accordingly. But we don't and it is expensive kit to have sitting around. I recall that we had quite a good lot of kit but serviceability becauses a problem when it sits around much of the year, usually in the open.
If the weather is such that you take a hit once in a few years then in the long run it is probably not as expensive than having a lot of kit sitting around doing nothing and deteriorating. It is similar to an airline taking a decision to only have Cat II ILS and not III and taking a hit when conditions are really bad.
When it comes to snowclearing, everyone's an expert but few have actually done it.
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Like to see that case go to court!
PR exercise and as Vintage says, we don't gear up for snow in the UK, well not within the last 15 years.
I guess it comes down to whether easyJet are culpable for compo under EU law, not if the airport were completely deluged with the huge amount of snow?
PR exercise and as Vintage says, we don't gear up for snow in the UK, well not within the last 15 years.
I guess it comes down to whether easyJet are culpable for compo under EU law, not if the airport were completely deluged with the huge amount of snow?
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Correct me if I am wrong but you can land an aircraft at Luton in a RVR of only 50m but due to the cost of training Easyjet can’t land in anything below 200m. Maybe the Airport Authority should sue the airline for revenue lost when the RVR’s drop below 200m.
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They are debating it on the radio now, and if easyJet are right to sue or if this is just part of compensation culture in this country...
There was mention that when similar weather closed the airport a few years back, complaints were made and so were promises regarding new equipment which never materialised.
I think the company is right to take this matter up and it's nothing to do with the compensation culture as previoulsy mentioned. This is not some Jeremy Kyle regular, spotting an advert on Ch5 for 'having an accident at work?' - We're talking serious loss of revenue/reputation and repeat business could be affected by this, and the council/airport couldn't give a monkey's.
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LTNman
Incorrect. The 737's do not have a Rudder autopilot channel so they cannot perform Roll Out which is a requirement for CatIIIB. Therefore the 737's are restricted to CatIIIA which has a Decision Height of 75ft and an RVR of 200m.
No amount of training can change this situation!
The Airbus fleet is certified to CatIIIB. No decision height and 75m RVR.
Let's be honest the airport was a shambles and they need a kick up the ars@. Most UK airports hardly ever see snow, but Luton does see it every year almost without fail. Maybe not as bad as this years but it does happen regularly. I think they should be better equipped to cope, they simply don't have enough snow clearing equipment. Secondly they need to come to arrangement with the council so that the airport are paid to grit the access roads. How pathetic was it to see the airports tractor gritting the nice clear roundabout by the Holiday Inn whilst coaches, fire engines and many motorists including me were stuck outside the Alteon Building trying to get up the hill which clearly they weren't allowed to grit.
Aircraft can and do take off and land on snow. There are performance penalties in terms of weight for take off and runway length required for landing but it's not a major problem. Luton however is a little on the short side and it could well be that a lot of aircraft couldn't land if the runway was contaminated. It depends on aircraft weight, depth of contamination, type of contamination and the surface wind.
FF
Correct me if I am wrong but you can land an aircraft at Luton in a RVR of only 50m but due to the cost of training Easyjet can’t land in anything below 200m. Maybe the Airport Authority should sue the airline for revenue lost when the RVR’s drop below 200m
Incorrect. The 737's do not have a Rudder autopilot channel so they cannot perform Roll Out which is a requirement for CatIIIB. Therefore the 737's are restricted to CatIIIA which has a Decision Height of 75ft and an RVR of 200m.
No amount of training can change this situation!
The Airbus fleet is certified to CatIIIB. No decision height and 75m RVR.
Let's be honest the airport was a shambles and they need a kick up the ars@. Most UK airports hardly ever see snow, but Luton does see it every year almost without fail. Maybe not as bad as this years but it does happen regularly. I think they should be better equipped to cope, they simply don't have enough snow clearing equipment. Secondly they need to come to arrangement with the council so that the airport are paid to grit the access roads. How pathetic was it to see the airports tractor gritting the nice clear roundabout by the Holiday Inn whilst coaches, fire engines and many motorists including me were stuck outside the Alteon Building trying to get up the hill which clearly they weren't allowed to grit.
Quote "Has anybody told them that planes can take off and land in the snow?!"
Not being facetious. As non-aircrew I'm not sure how that works. I thought for safety reasons take-off and landing on snow was a no-no, hence the use of grip-testers etc.,
Can someone elaborate for me please?
Not being facetious. As non-aircrew I'm not sure how that works. I thought for safety reasons take-off and landing on snow was a no-no, hence the use of grip-testers etc.,
Can someone elaborate for me please?
FF
aceatco, retired
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they simply don't have enough snow clearing equipment.
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Not only do you have to clear the runway and get an acceptable post sweep braking action, you also have to clear the taxiway system, the stands, do the roadways around the stands and the footpaths to/from the tinminal.
Sky Wave, where exactly do the airport find the staff to achieve this? The fire station are mostly involved with clearing the runway/taxiway, then have to go back to the station in readiness for a re-opening, otherwise there is a resultant reduction in fire cover. Baggage handlers once helped with keeping the tinminal infrastructure cleared, but HM Govt outlawed airport operators from shifting bags. These staff are now employed by handling agents so are unable to directly assist?
If snow continues to fall, the swept areas start to cover once more whilst movements occur.
Being stuck right on top of a hill, drifting is an additional issue.
When I started work at Luton in Dec 1981, I didn't witness an aircraft movement for the first 5 days due to the severe snow, so little has really changed. Funny how my memory has faded, as I do not recall Monarch or Britannia slapping a compo bill under the Town Hall doormat?
The 'snow' story was a nice bit of free publicity for easyJet though!
Sky Wave, where exactly do the airport find the staff to achieve this? The fire station are mostly involved with clearing the runway/taxiway, then have to go back to the station in readiness for a re-opening, otherwise there is a resultant reduction in fire cover. Baggage handlers once helped with keeping the tinminal infrastructure cleared, but HM Govt outlawed airport operators from shifting bags. These staff are now employed by handling agents so are unable to directly assist?
If snow continues to fall, the swept areas start to cover once more whilst movements occur.
Being stuck right on top of a hill, drifting is an additional issue.
When I started work at Luton in Dec 1981, I didn't witness an aircraft movement for the first 5 days due to the severe snow, so little has really changed. Funny how my memory has faded, as I do not recall Monarch or Britannia slapping a compo bill under the Town Hall doormat?
The 'snow' story was a nice bit of free publicity for easyJet though!
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Wizz commence their LTN-PRG flights this morning, competing directly against Sky Europe, with both flights departing LTN at 0900. Not difficult to see who will be the long term winner in this contest.
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Only the latest B737NG's are CATIIIB capable. As half of U2's NG's are the older CATIIIA version, the whole fleet is operated to CATIIIA standard. And before you ask, no, it's not possible to upgrade a 3A to a 3B, and no, a crew cannot operate both types as the core actions in the event of an engine failure on approach in poor visibility are completely different. I think you'll find our Irish cousins also operate their shiny new NG's to CATIIIA for the same reasons.