BIRMINGHAM - 4
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Have we been reading the runes wrong?
Another shock from FR, or have we been reading the runes wrong? Will adding Ibiza from BHX on top of Faro mean that there will be five based for summer 10?
Given this and one or two other positive moves, including Flybe's new routes, might this mean that the prospects for BHX next year are not be as bad as first feared.
And is there is still time for further developments?
Monty Gordo
Given this and one or two other positive moves, including Flybe's new routes, might this mean that the prospects for BHX next year are not be as bad as first feared.
And is there is still time for further developments?
Monty Gordo
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FR/BE
Monty Gordo
The FR timetable is totally impossible to run on four based aircraft, it
needs to be five at least. However the same happened last year and
all that they did was later move flights to away based
aircraft (PSA, TPS & ALC) and cut a couple of frequencies.
This time hopefully it will be five. Wed & Sun see five departures in
the morning but that is it but there are other times when the TFS/ACE/
LPA are out and there are four afternoon departures (Mo/We/Th/Fr/Sa)
and it would take some big changes to squash the schedule to four.
As for flybe, they are all new destinations (the French) for flybe other
than TLS returning but I doubt if it is any extra aircraft as they will
just replace frequency reductions on the business routes.
The positive aspect to this though is that the aircraft just sat around this summer in Julyand August. In 2008 they added extra Brest, La Rochelle and Bergerac's but this time have gone for new destinations.
Ryanair going after Monarch at BHX? I think so.
Pete
The FR timetable is totally impossible to run on four based aircraft, it
needs to be five at least. However the same happened last year and
all that they did was later move flights to away based
aircraft (PSA, TPS & ALC) and cut a couple of frequencies.
This time hopefully it will be five. Wed & Sun see five departures in
the morning but that is it but there are other times when the TFS/ACE/
LPA are out and there are four afternoon departures (Mo/We/Th/Fr/Sa)
and it would take some big changes to squash the schedule to four.
As for flybe, they are all new destinations (the French) for flybe other
than TLS returning but I doubt if it is any extra aircraft as they will
just replace frequency reductions on the business routes.
The positive aspect to this though is that the aircraft just sat around this summer in Julyand August. In 2008 they added extra Brest, La Rochelle and Bergerac's but this time have gone for new destinations.
Ryanair going after Monarch at BHX? I think so.
Pete
Last edited by OltonPete; 18th Dec 2009 at 17:15. Reason: 0rder of words
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What worries me about FR at BHX is their total lack of inspiration regarding new routes, come on IBZ and FAO; routes quite happily already served, its not exactly ground breaking news is it? Or are these Med destinations the only places Brummies really want to fly to? At least (assuming no major schedule changes or route culls) this means 5 based units. I was very pro FR when they launched at BHX but now begin to wonder my sanity at the time
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FR FAO and IBZ
I would have preferred SVQ to FAO or VLC or MAD to IBZ. I agree with the previous comments, I think that FR are going after MON at BHX lets hope that MON and their vastly superior service sees them through.
Daza
Daza
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Re FAO and IBZ
Olton Pete and Gay Friendly, while I value your comments on this debate can I ask: Are we missing the point?"
While business is generally internecine, surely we are not concentrating on what the real problem is at BHX. It is not the airlines, but the management of the airport itself?
Is there another airport in the UK with the infrastructure of BHX: Centre of the country, superb road and rail connections (with rail intself into the airport itself rather than a parkway), a modern new terminal and a population catchment area that runs into millions?
The problem as I said is not the loco airlines, they will always fight for the lucrative pax routes; the problem is not enough people (even in the Midlands or within one hour's drive time) understand what facilities are on their doorstep and that can only be achieved by the management at BIA being more pro-active.
Some time ago Gay Friendly you said that travel agents when selling Dubai offer Man or LHR in preference to BHX. Why? Because the airport and its facilities are not being sold sufficiently!
My message to BIA management, and to travel agents, is get out there and be seen by the travelling public.
By all means let the airlines challenge each other, that is good for business. The cake is and should be big enough for everybody.
While business is generally internecine, surely we are not concentrating on what the real problem is at BHX. It is not the airlines, but the management of the airport itself?
Is there another airport in the UK with the infrastructure of BHX: Centre of the country, superb road and rail connections (with rail intself into the airport itself rather than a parkway), a modern new terminal and a population catchment area that runs into millions?
The problem as I said is not the loco airlines, they will always fight for the lucrative pax routes; the problem is not enough people (even in the Midlands or within one hour's drive time) understand what facilities are on their doorstep and that can only be achieved by the management at BIA being more pro-active.
Some time ago Gay Friendly you said that travel agents when selling Dubai offer Man or LHR in preference to BHX. Why? Because the airport and its facilities are not being sold sufficiently!
My message to BIA management, and to travel agents, is get out there and be seen by the travelling public.
By all means let the airlines challenge each other, that is good for business. The cake is and should be big enough for everybody.
Monty Gordo
Clearly there isn't another airport in the location you decribe - well not since the Coventry debacle, and their terminal was hardly superb!
However, given the proximity of Birmingham to LHR and MAN the alledgedly huge catchment area is always going to be diluted to some extent between the two larger, better connected airports.
That said, apart from the parasite that is Ryanair (milk airports for what it can and treat passengers like dung) BHX has a pretty good network of "proper" scheduled services by quality carriers - which is exactly what you would expect of an airport in it's location. Contrast if you will with EMA, which again is sullied by Ryanair and has only a couple of proper business orientated routes, operated from a proper airline - it won't ever grow a decent network of business ervices because of it's location.
BHX, in percentage terms is still suffering passenger number reductions of less than major competitors such as MAN and EMA - and since Globespan went, Glasgow and Edinburgh as well I would think. You just can't expect airlines (or Ryanair) to take risky expansion moves in the current climate. BHX is largely, at least for leisure purposes, an "outbound" airport, and as such it suffers from the current state of the UK currency which makes travelling to the eurozone more expensive.
The good times will return - but I reckon it'll not be before Summer 2011. I hope to be proven wrong.
Clearly there isn't another airport in the location you decribe - well not since the Coventry debacle, and their terminal was hardly superb!
However, given the proximity of Birmingham to LHR and MAN the alledgedly huge catchment area is always going to be diluted to some extent between the two larger, better connected airports.
That said, apart from the parasite that is Ryanair (milk airports for what it can and treat passengers like dung) BHX has a pretty good network of "proper" scheduled services by quality carriers - which is exactly what you would expect of an airport in it's location. Contrast if you will with EMA, which again is sullied by Ryanair and has only a couple of proper business orientated routes, operated from a proper airline - it won't ever grow a decent network of business ervices because of it's location.
BHX, in percentage terms is still suffering passenger number reductions of less than major competitors such as MAN and EMA - and since Globespan went, Glasgow and Edinburgh as well I would think. You just can't expect airlines (or Ryanair) to take risky expansion moves in the current climate. BHX is largely, at least for leisure purposes, an "outbound" airport, and as such it suffers from the current state of the UK currency which makes travelling to the eurozone more expensive.
The good times will return - but I reckon it'll not be before Summer 2011. I hope to be proven wrong.
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But....This is not a BHX problem, It's an aviation in general problem....All airports are suffering. Bemoaning the comings and goings at BHX is to ignore the problem nationwide.
As for the management at BHX....Well it's a dictatorship at the moment so all falls onto the head of one person...........They did pin a lot on the FR deal..This did include an engineering base at BHX...Not sure that is still on the cards.
IMO Manchester does have the right attitude. if all airports took the same stance then all would eventually benefit. For it to work though they all need to be saying the same thing.
MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL....
As for the management at BHX....Well it's a dictatorship at the moment so all falls onto the head of one person...........They did pin a lot on the FR deal..This did include an engineering base at BHX...Not sure that is still on the cards.
IMO Manchester does have the right attitude. if all airports took the same stance then all would eventually benefit. For it to work though they all need to be saying the same thing.
MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL....
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I travel most weeks from/to BHX to Europe on the ‘quality’ airlines mentioned above. CPH (SAS), FRA/DUS/MUC (LH) , CDG/AMS(AF/KLM) all seem to be busy to me. Yes the planes may be smaller with lower frequency in some cases but the fares are not cheap and they are busy. SAS to CPH must be making a killing with the CRJ9, which seems 80% full whenever I’m on it. I’ve also done a few intra Europe routes and they don’t seem so full as the BHX routes.
This has to be good for the future that these airlines can make a profit from BHX even in today’s market. If they are not then I would be surprised. When the good times return so will the frequencies and bigger aircraft. Trading that in for just one or two locos doesn’t seem like a good move to me, but a combination of both paying the right price for the airport services provided is the way to go.
The new pier is a huge step up in capability and customer service. Just wish the penny pinching £1for a trolley and drop off was changed. Even Bristol doesn’t charge for the drop off (isn’t that where the MD came from ?). These are the only two airports outside of the US I have seen trolley charges.
So in summary BHX, just keep the model going, please please don't sell out to Ryanair. Let in Easyjet (for my holidays
), and do away with the stupid charges.
This has to be good for the future that these airlines can make a profit from BHX even in today’s market. If they are not then I would be surprised. When the good times return so will the frequencies and bigger aircraft. Trading that in for just one or two locos doesn’t seem like a good move to me, but a combination of both paying the right price for the airport services provided is the way to go.
The new pier is a huge step up in capability and customer service. Just wish the penny pinching £1for a trolley and drop off was changed. Even Bristol doesn’t charge for the drop off (isn’t that where the MD came from ?). These are the only two airports outside of the US I have seen trolley charges.
So in summary BHX, just keep the model going, please please don't sell out to Ryanair. Let in Easyjet (for my holidays
), and do away with the stupid charges.
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BHX's Position
The position at present is working well as another ten diverts today
from LTN/STN/MAN including Qatar!
There is clearly a problem with the % of local pax flying from other airports but ATNotts & Call100 have touched on some of the reasons why and I think the latest figures do not show much of an improvement.
In my opinion past management did seem a little slow to say the least
with some route development but on the whole BHX does still have a good
mix of airlines.
Ryanair's approach to route development is a nightmare but that is the best BHX can do at the moment and nobody I think could accuse management of a lack of trying when trying to court easyjet albeit years too late but that is down to a previous regime.
FlyOften
I agree with the comments re SAS, this aircraft seemed perfect for BHX
but loads seem to indicate it is too small at times although the odd MD80
still appears from time to time.
I flew from BHX last Tuesday and it was a pleasure until I stepped on
to plane (but you pay for you get - well actually I barely paid if you see
what I mean) and at times like Monty Gordo it does make you wonder why it can't attract more passengers even in these lean times.
Coming back was also a dream, steps waiting no immigration at the BHX end (from Dublin) and I was at the train station in minutes just a shame the station I had left the car at was closed but even I can't blame the train company if somebody didn't want to see this this Christmas.
In fact although BHX is well served by trains this was the only problem
I encountered with my early morning train delayed leaving me with 45 Mins before depature but security at BHX was swift and there was no problem
in the end but it was a Tuesday in mid December.
On a different subject it is all smiles this last week with Mahan Air sending an A310 and A300 yesterday, easyjet back since Tuesday and Monarch schedule adding flights for Christmas.
Pete
from LTN/STN/MAN including Qatar!
There is clearly a problem with the % of local pax flying from other airports but ATNotts & Call100 have touched on some of the reasons why and I think the latest figures do not show much of an improvement.
In my opinion past management did seem a little slow to say the least
with some route development but on the whole BHX does still have a good
mix of airlines.
Ryanair's approach to route development is a nightmare but that is the best BHX can do at the moment and nobody I think could accuse management of a lack of trying when trying to court easyjet albeit years too late but that is down to a previous regime.
FlyOften
I agree with the comments re SAS, this aircraft seemed perfect for BHX
but loads seem to indicate it is too small at times although the odd MD80
still appears from time to time.
I flew from BHX last Tuesday and it was a pleasure until I stepped on
to plane (but you pay for you get - well actually I barely paid if you see
what I mean) and at times like Monty Gordo it does make you wonder why it can't attract more passengers even in these lean times.
Coming back was also a dream, steps waiting no immigration at the BHX end (from Dublin) and I was at the train station in minutes just a shame the station I had left the car at was closed but even I can't blame the train company if somebody didn't want to see this this Christmas.
In fact although BHX is well served by trains this was the only problem
I encountered with my early morning train delayed leaving me with 45 Mins before depature but security at BHX was swift and there was no problem
in the end but it was a Tuesday in mid December.
On a different subject it is all smiles this last week with Mahan Air sending an A310 and A300 yesterday, easyjet back since Tuesday and Monarch schedule adding flights for Christmas.
Pete
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Monarch
Monarch have from 1st may added a saturday flight to fue from bhx i think the price must be a misprint cheaper to fly to australia
Saturday, 15 May 10 ( ZB 438 )
Birmingham to Fuerteventura
15:45 20:05
22 May 10 ( ZB 439 )
Fuerteventura to Birmingham
21:05 01:20
£941.29
Total price INCLUDES all
Saturday, 15 May 10 ( ZB 438 )
Birmingham to Fuerteventura
15:45 20:05
- - fare
£439.99 - - infant/s
£0.00 - - taxes & chgs
£38.76
22 May 10 ( ZB 439 )
Fuerteventura to Birmingham
21:05 01:20
- - fare
£439.99 - - infant/s
£0.00 - - taxes & chgs
£22.55
£941.29
Total price INCLUDES all
Last edited by potash; 20th Dec 2009 at 15:40.
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Anybody have a full list of divs Sunday ?
The airport director was quoted on radio as suggesting that they only got back to normal Monday because of the "massive volume" of inbounds !
10 does not sound a lot ?
The airport director was quoted on radio as suggesting that they only got back to normal Monday because of the "massive volume" of inbounds !
10 does not sound a lot ?
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I saw a BIA director on BBC news today saying BHX handled 50 diverts in 3 days!!
With the south east closed at the moment more are arriving and are having to park on taxiway 'T' and the 80's.
Its all revenue for BHX and also a bit of advertising to southern pax that a superb regional airport exists north of Watford and south of Man.
(Not a dig at EMA btw)
Maybe it'll attract a few southern pax north in future? I still meet people these days from other parts of the UK who didnt even know Birmingham had an airport
With the south east closed at the moment more are arriving and are having to park on taxiway 'T' and the 80's.
Its all revenue for BHX and also a bit of advertising to southern pax that a superb regional airport exists north of Watford and south of Man.
(Not a dig at EMA btw)
Maybe it'll attract a few southern pax north in future? I still meet people these days from other parts of the UK who didnt even know Birmingham had an airport
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Diverts
Not far off 30 diverts this afternoon which would make 50-60 in the
last few days.
It has slowed now but hardly surprising, one Ryanair from Brno has just divertedfrom Stansted to Liverpool!
Peter
last few days.
It has slowed now but hardly surprising, one Ryanair from Brno has just divertedfrom Stansted to Liverpool!
Peter
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and also a bit of advertising to southern pax that a superb regional airport exists north of Watford and south of Man
out of BHX and to their actual destination as quickly as possible without even a second thought about the facilities at BHX or whether they would use it in the future. At least however they will now realise that BHX exists!I am flying in on the TK on Thurs morning and heavy fog is forecast for BHX - I can tell you now that if I divert and wherever it is to I will just want to get back to Brum as quickly as is practically possible. Airport facilities at MAN, LON or wherever it may be and whether I would use them again in the future will be the last thing on my mind. (Heres hoping however that I will actually end up in BHX
)
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Im guessing the 3 hour wait on board and a further hour for bags, so the ramp guys told me may deter them from a future BHX visit! Not the airports fault I grant you handlers streched to the max!!!
Cant remember and dont know if its still the case but BHX never used to charge for diverts, not sure about ground agencies.
Cant remember and dont know if its still the case but BHX never used to charge for diverts, not sure about ground agencies.
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There are charges but as it's weather diverts it is only a percentage of the full cost. Not sure what the latest charge is. Main thing is it offsets the heavy cost of keeping the place as Ice free as possible.