BA Cityflyer

[DutchBird-757]

I can see where Skipness is coming from. The exact same thing happend in Holland when Fokker collapsed and a restart was unsuccessfull. And now KLM, and others, are getting rid of the Fokkers in favour of either Brazillian or Canadian build jets. It's the exact same story really. It's said but it happened for a reason.

@ towser; no more before end of the year then?

[towser]

DB757 , Thats my understanding.

[BAladdy]

LCY/GVA extra flight/BA charter BCN/MAN 20 Aug question

BACF have added an additional Sunday frequency for their Winter GVA/LCY service. The route starts up again 14DEC09

They will now operate daily Mon-Fri and 2 flights on a Sunday

The Timetable is as follows
LCY-GVA
BA8743 LCY 09:20 GVA 12:10 AR1 Mon-Fri Only
BA8743 LCY 12:30 GVA 15:15 E70 Sun Only
BA8745 LCY 17:10 GVA 20:00 E70 Sun Only

GVA-LCY
BA8744 GVA 12:55 LCY 13:40 AR1 Mon-Fri Only
BA8744 GVA 15:55 LCY 16:40 E70 Sun Only
BA8746 GVA 20:40 LCY 21:25 E70 Sun Only
__________________________________________________________

Was at MAN yesterday and noticed on the arrivals board a flight from BCN operated by BA. Can't remember the exact flight number, however I do remember it started BA19 and ended with a C.

Was this a BACF or mainline charter?? Anyone know if it was for Man City fans or team??.

[marlowe]

It was the team arriving back from BCN and it was a BACF charter.

[BAladdy]

BACF having aircraft problems today??

Does anyone know if BACF are having problems with there fleet??.

It's just I have noticed that they seem to have two Bae 146's operating today. The first Bae146 which is being used looks like it has 80 seats and is operating BA8734/8735, LCY/FRA/LCY. While the second which has 92 seats is operating BA8716/8707/8728, LCY/EDI/LCY/GLA. Anyone got anymore info??.
I am guessing the aircraft belong to Titan.

Originally Posted by marlowe

It was the team arriving back from BCN and it was a BACF charter.

Intresting. If I recall they also did a charter from EDI to ZRH back in July for the Falkirk Football team. Does anyone know if BACF are actively trying to get extra Charter work for the Winter??. It will be interesting to see if the charters have been a success if they will look at moving into specialising in flights specifically for teams flying in Europe. There could be very good money in it for them.

[DutchBird-757]

Titan indeed brought in to replace tech aircraft.

About the charters. Quite a number of football charters during AUG. Haven't heard anything about winter charters, if any.

[BAladdy]

Does anyone know if the last aircraft to AMS on a friday stay in AMS until Sunday??. Also the aircraft that operates Fridays late FRA does that stay in FRA until the Monday am??

Originally Posted by DutchBird-757

Haven't heard anything about winter charters, if any.

That is a shame. The majority of the fleet seems to not operate all day Saturday, and most of Sunday. Which to me looks like a waste of money. They should tender to operate ski flights for companies such as Inghams. They could operate charters from STN, EDI and GLA to ski destanation such as GVA, LYS, INN etc as they did a few years ago. When it comes to the summer If I recall BACF a few years ago used to operate flights from EDI, GLA & BHX to PMI and FAO. Maybe they could tender for those flights when all the E-Jets arrive

[DutchBird-757]

Both the AMS and FRA friday nightstoppers remain there until that sunday on a remote stand and crew positions via LHR that sunday.

About the charters. I wished they would use the aircraft during the weekends and make money with them rather than having them sitting idle somewhere. Just my 0.002c.

On the other hand, they've always stated that their main operation was the focus. Especially now with the crewing levels tight and the good old RJ getting a bit tired they can't take the risk of having crew out of hours or aircraft tech somewhere with disruption to our normal ops as a consequence. I think that once the Embraers are up and running, and crew levels back to normal, they'll get back to charters.

I also read an article about the E190's range from LCY. It states over 800 miles but fails to mention anything about with what kind of payload.
Private Jets News: EMBRAER 190 undertakes successful week of trials at London City Airport

Usually our MAD's are about 815nm and a Lisbon is about 915nm from LHR.

[DutchBird-757]

G-LCYD will start it's delivery process on 31AUG in Brazil and be flown to the UK on 04SEP. Routing; Factory in Sao Jose dos Campos - Recife - oceaninc to Cape Verde - Tenerife South (overnight) - Exeter (05SEP at night) for final modifications before enty into service. (EIS) Any spotters out there willing to snap a few shots?

One slight modification to the delivery scheduele. Confirmed NO E190 in FEB and now 2 in APR iso MAR. (still 1)

[BAladdy]

I also read an article about the E190's range from LCY. It states over 800 miles but fails to mention anything about with what kind of payload.

Looking at BACF's timetable. It looks like the E170's are planned to operate the MAD service. Does the E170 have more of a range than the E190's??.

There seems to be a few gaps in the timetable for the summer. Guessing they will be filled by the rumoured new routes. BCN seems to have done well this Summer. Maybe they will increase the frequency next summer.

[DutchBird-757]

Looking at the Embraer website the E190 has more range than the E170 (1800 for the E170STD against 2100nm ish for the E190) I would assume the E170 has more legs from LCY with a bigger payload as it's more then 10T lighter.

We'll wait and see about BCN for the next summer season. The route will stop on 24OCT and restarted next summer. MAD will be flown by the E170 from 11NOV. (flight times are 25 min shorter ex LCY en 15 min shorter inb LCY)

This is what I found on another forum;
G-LCYD, Mon-Fri

BA8700/8703/8453/8454/8712/8717
LCY/EDI/LCY/AMS/LCY/EDI/LCY

Sat:

BA8475/8476
LCY/NCE/LCY

Sun:

BA8738/8737
LCY/FRA/LCY

The routes have also been decided on for the next two E170's.

The second aircraft G-LCYE will enter service on 13 October as BA8736 from LCY to FRA . Then the E170 will Operate Monday to Friday FRA/LCY/FRA/LCY/FRA/LCY/FRA.

The third aircraft which is due to delivery at the end of October will enter service on BACF's longest route LCY/MAD on 11th Nov .

==

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by DutchBird-757

About the charters. I wished they would use the aircraft during the weekends and make money with them rather than having them sitting idle somewhere.

Doing weekend charters are a real difficulty for LCY-based operators.

If you do them with aircraft which weekend at the outstations, you will get difficulties with crew hours from a non-base, and not being able to start the charter until the aircraft turns up on Saturday lunchtime, while wanting the aircraft back by Sunday lunchtime, a combination there is not much demand for. Moreover BACF will not be a well-known operator there.

If you do charters starting from LCY, you need to be gone before Saturday lunchtime and not back until after Sunday lunchtime, which when fitted in with the schedules gives some very restrictive options for scheduling.

Scheduling a 12 noon Saturday departure out of London City is a real moment of tension, if you are not gone by the time the curfew comes in the whole charter is lost and that will be the end of any more business from that customer.

Football charters would be an obvious market for LCY, out on Saturday morning, were it not for the fact that you can't come back on Saturday night (so what's the point of going by air ?), and have to be in quite precisely on Sunday ready for the schedules.

[marlowe]

WHBM you assume that any charter would start and finish at LCY, so far none of the charters done by BACF have done so. As for charters at weekends then they can be accomodated by the airframes that are up in EDI so the limitations of LCY dont apply .

[BAladdy]

Originally Posted by WHBM

Scheduling a 12 noon Saturday departure out of London City is a real moment of tension, if you are not gone by the time the curfew comes in the whole charter is lost and that will be the end of any more business from that customer.

Football charters would be an obvious market for LCY, out on Saturday morning, were it not for the fact that you can't come back on Saturday night (so what's the point of going by air ?), and have to be in quite precisely on Sunday ready for the schedules.

Yes but there is nothing stopping them if the work is available positioning the one aircraft that nightstops on a Saturday at LCY to STN or a regional airport such as SOU/BOH/BHX/EMA or MAN once it has completed it's inbound sector to LCY. It would then be available Saturday afternoon and possibly Sunday am.

Originally Posted by marlowe

WHBM you assume that any charter would start and finish at LCY, so far none of the charters done by BACF have done so. As for charters at weekends then they can be accomodated by the airframes that are up in EDI so the limitations of LCY dont apply .

Very true. I think BACF have 1 possibly 2 aicraft on the ground at EDI from Fri night to Sunday Afternoon, with another 2 aicraft free from around 1pm on Saturday to mid afternoon on Sunday. GLA currently has two aircraft that arrive on a Friday evening. One of the aircraft does not operate again until 1700 on the Sunday and the other does not operate until Monday morning.

With this in mind BACF could easily operate charter flights from EDI and GLA in the summer if they where successful in bidding to operate flights for a tour operator. Ex EDI They could use one aircraft all day Saturday and on Sunday am and another Saturday PM and Sunday am to operate charter flights leaving at least one aircraft on STBY. EX GLA they could use both aircraft all day on Saturday and one aircraft on a Sunday for charter ops. Whilst still protecting the limited Sunday operation

If insufficent charter work was available for all sectors ex these airports then maybe with some strategic bidding the aircraft could operate W patterns.

eg. EDI/XXX/BHX/XXX/EDI or GLA/XXX/MAN/XXX/GLA

In the Winter they could bid for ski flights as well as some of the many day trip flights to German markets and even Lapland.

[HZ123]

I think BA in general has tried all this before, it has been a fine line at actually making money. Are these the right aircraft anyway?

[BAladdy]

I recall that someone mentioned that a decision on the three E190SR options has been delayed. If BACF wanted to exercise their options could they change the E190SR options to E170's??

Originally Posted by HZ123

I think BA in general has tried all this before, it has been a fine line at actually making money

If you mean the whole charter thing. BACF a couple of years ago was doing quite well operating charter flights at weekends from EDI, BHX and I think MAN. The reason they stopped was they started to impact on the punctuality and reliability of their scheduled services.

Originally Posted by HZ123

Are these the right aircraft anyway?

If you mean to operate charters. I personally think the new E-Jets would be a better fit for those flights. On the other hand if you mean are the E-Jets the right aircraft to replace the RJ85/100's. I would have to say that I couldn't think of a better replacement.

Although smaller, the E170's will be able to fly higher and faster than the current RJ85 and RJ100 aircraft. They will also be far more fuel efficient and offer BACF's customers more space to work and relax. With only 76 seats the E170's will be a better aircraft to operate routes such as ZRH, AMS, MAD, FRA as well as off peak flights to GLA and EDI. Historically those flights struggles to achieve load factors of over 60% on the 110 seater RJ100's.

As has already been posted earlier. Flights on the LCY/MAD route are expected to be 15 mins faster from MAD to LCY and 25 mins faster from LCY to MAD when the E170 takes over from the RJ85 currently operating the route.

Due to the E190SR's being a new variant of the E190 not much info is available on it's range/payload etc. However it will still be, as the E170's will be able to fly higher and faster while at the same time being far more fuel efficient than the current E190's.

[saman]

How noisey are the 170/5 & 190/5? They are both powered by little engines - albeit different on the two variants - running flat out - and derate at LCY is not much of an option - both already have devices such as chevron nozzles to quieten them...

[towser]

The only time noise may be an issue is setting thrust on the brakes. If a rolling take off is performed then no noise issue, however the performance issue of rolling take offs at LCY is still being investigated. I belive the options are changeable fro 190 to 170.

[DutchBird-757]

The options are for 190SR's only and the decision time has apparently been moved backwards. The purchase rights can be either.

[DutchBird-757]

This is what it's been all about;

The first E170 during photo flight. (copyright @ Embraer)