CORK - 5
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I'd still rather fly to Dublin rather than do a day trip on the Motorway. It' s a lot more tiring than people realise. A 3 or 4 per day ATR service would work providing FR stayed off it.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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Francis, do you realise that the hold areas on the ATR's are in front of the cabin and also in the rear, not under the floor like on larger aircraft? They appear to be more than adequate. There is no issue that I have ever heard of with baggage (connecting, or otherwise) with the ATR. The overheads for cabin baggage are tight though.
I think for ORK-DUB to work (which Im skeptical that it would) they would need to trade fairly heavily on connnections, for effective connections to North America and allow for day returns three daily services would probably be needed. Something like an 0700 departure from Cork, with an arrival scheduled for 0800, or so, departing DUB at 0830. Maybe the aircraft could route
ORK-DUB-ORK-BHD-ORK-DUB-ORK, killing two birds with one stone there, not sure if there would enough traffic though. The final possibility would be for two aircraft to operate in a triangle via a common UK airport. If EI and/RE wanted to operate on ORK-DUB there are a few ways to make it happen, but Im not sure the market exists as it once did. The trains and roads are much better and getting through airports quickly is more difficult.
I think for ORK-DUB to work (which Im skeptical that it would) they would need to trade fairly heavily on connnections, for effective connections to North America and allow for day returns three daily services would probably be needed. Something like an 0700 departure from Cork, with an arrival scheduled for 0800, or so, departing DUB at 0830. Maybe the aircraft could route
ORK-DUB-ORK-BHD-ORK-DUB-ORK, killing two birds with one stone there, not sure if there would enough traffic though. The final possibility would be for two aircraft to operate in a triangle via a common UK airport. If EI and/RE wanted to operate on ORK-DUB there are a few ways to make it happen, but Im not sure the market exists as it once did. The trains and roads are much better and getting through airports quickly is more difficult.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Brian, it's impossible to argue with irrationality.
Francis obviously believes that ORK DUB is of a different nature to all the other connecting ATR services globally.
So, lets move on to more pressing items... The AT72 is too big for ORK BHD.
Francis obviously believes that ORK DUB is of a different nature to all the other connecting ATR services globally.
So, lets move on to more pressing items... The AT72 is too big for ORK BHD.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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In fairness to Francis the alleged lack of baggage space on an ATR is just one of a number of lame excuses that have been peddled around Cork Airport in recent years. Others include the old chestnut that Czech Airlines and Malev pulled out due to a shortage of aircraft, no mention of the fact that the planes were re allocated to other routes!
Then there was the one about the Shannon Stop over being the reason why Cork didn't have U.S. Flights. Well open skies is in for over 4 years now and we're not even in the shake up for a transatlantic service. On a more positive not April traffic is on par with April 2011 which might indicate that things have levelled out but I wouldn't put too much money on it.
Then there was the one about the Shannon Stop over being the reason why Cork didn't have U.S. Flights. Well open skies is in for over 4 years now and we're not even in the shake up for a transatlantic service. On a more positive not April traffic is on par with April 2011 which might indicate that things have levelled out but I wouldn't put too much money on it.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
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Knock has again shown the way for Cork. Not only has it had a scheduled service both to New York and to Boston it is today awaiting the arrival of the first scheduled Lufthansa service from Dusseldorf. It may be noted that just like the case with Zurich Cork Airport had also a scheduled air connection to Dusseldorf more than thirty years ago.
Cork Airport - an airport with such little ambition. What a pity.
Cork Airport - an airport with such little ambition. What a pity.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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That makes no sense. You say Ryanair slashing their fares had minimal effect and then in the same post acknowledge that Ryanair slashing their fares forced easyJet off the route. And somehow that's the CAA's fault?
I'd very much doubt if Ryanair was given any incentives to compete with Easyjet on London or Aer Arann on Dublin.
Cork Airport - an airport with such little ambition. What a pity.
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Here we go again. Not a day goes by on the Cork thread without our two comedians blaming people for airlines flying to other airports.
Sorry to burst your dilusional lack of ambition bubble yet again Tom, but ORK is active in marketing to Lufthansa... Don't you read the newspapers?
Some little things - The Irish Times - Fri, Apr 20, 2012
However, as these routes are mostly block booked charter, My bets are that Shannon will appear before cork, not because of the secret society, but because the germans love the west coast of Ireland rather than the beautiful charms of Linsale.
Oh, since when is using route examples that were a disaster and lasted less than a season (NOC to the USA) is a real confidence booster for an airline?
Sorry to burst your dilusional lack of ambition bubble yet again Tom, but ORK is active in marketing to Lufthansa... Don't you read the newspapers?
We’re hoping to add other airports, and Shannon and Cork are destinations looking to get Lufthansa in,”
However, as these routes are mostly block booked charter, My bets are that Shannon will appear before cork, not because of the secret society, but because the germans love the west coast of Ireland rather than the beautiful charms of Linsale.
Oh, since when is using route examples that were a disaster and lasted less than a season (NOC to the USA) is a real confidence booster for an airline?
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by Jack1985
It does if you read it correctly. I said Ryanair slashing fares from Cork to London Stansted when easyJet began their Cork to London Gatwick route had minimal affect. But when they competed directly with them on the Cork to London Gatwick route with fares slashed it had the affect to drive easyJet off the route.
If we're to believe your post though, it was Aer Rianta's fault for 'letting' Ryanair operate on the Cork-Gatwick route, as if to say they had any say in the matter, let alone the power to stop them.
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Really you just said earlier on... ''That makes no sense.''
Of course it was. This was in the year exactly when Ryanair turned around their view to Aer Rianta and started what could only be described as an epic expansion at Dublin i'm sure you'll remember that? Aer Rianta was giving in left right and centre to Ryanair letting them go at Shannon and wanted Cork to continue its growth - Aer Lingus were growing and the void by JetMagic being filled they wanted more and more and they chose the wrong soloution to the growth they so desperately wanted because in the end they let Ryanair drive the competition away and then watched them half the amount of flights to London Gatwick and increase the fares.
was Aer Rianta's fault for 'letting' Ryanair operate on the Cork-Gatwick route, as if to say they had any say in the matter, let alone the power to stop them.
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Originally Posted by Jack1985
Really you just said earlier on... ''That makes no sense.''
Originally Posted by Jack1985
Of course it was. This was in the year exactly when Ryanair turned around their view to Aer Rianta and started what could only be described as an epic expansion at Dublin i'm sure you'll remember that? Aer Rianta was giving in left right and centre to Ryanair letting them go at Shannon and wanted Cork to continue its growth - Aer Lingus were growing and the void by JetMagic being filled they wanted more and more and they chose the wrong soloution to the growth they so desperately wanted because in the end they let Ryanair drive the competition away and then watched them half the amount of flights to London Gatwick and increase the fares.
In any case its bullsh*t to blame the CAA for easyJet pulling out of Cork. Airports are not allowed under EU rules to offer any incentives to one airline without offering them to all airlines, so any incentive Ryanair may have been offered by the CAA was also offered to easyJet, and bmi baby before them. So why is it the CAA's fault that Ryanair chose to undercut easyJet?
Join Date: Apr 2004
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My understanding is that Ryanair were entitled to the airport incentives for the Liverpool service but they did not receive any such incentives for Dublin, Stansted or Gatwick.
Neither did Easyjet for Gatwick as they went head to head with BMI Baby
They put on an extra Stansted after Easyjet launched Gatwick and then really upped the Ante by going head to head with them on Gatwick during the winter of 2005. Things came to a head in June 2006 when Ryanair put 3 Gatwicks a day in their Winter schedule for 06/07 and shortly afterwards Easy announced that they were leaving ORK SNN and NOC.
Neither did Easyjet for Gatwick as they went head to head with BMI Baby
They put on an extra Stansted after Easyjet launched Gatwick and then really upped the Ante by going head to head with them on Gatwick during the winter of 2005. Things came to a head in June 2006 when Ryanair put 3 Gatwicks a day in their Winter schedule for 06/07 and shortly afterwards Easy announced that they were leaving ORK SNN and NOC.
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CAA and Aer before them stated clearly that incentives are only for new routes and are not given to predators who decide to compete on existing routes.
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Jack, you dont understand what you are talking about.
Ryan, you are correct - 30 seconds on google is an amazing thing.
Air Transport News
EasyJet did not get an incentive from Cork Airport for Gatwick.
As for O'Ceilidh - Aer Arann lost their case in the competition authority in Cork, so yes, sad to say (as I like the man) - he was talking out his ass.
Irish Competition Authority Drops Aer Arann Complaint ON CORK DUBLIN ROUTE - Low Cost Airline News
Inquiry into Cork-Dublin route ends | Irish Examiner
Aer Arann's complaint not upheld - Irish, Business - Independent.ie
Ryan, you are correct - 30 seconds on google is an amazing thing.
As with all other airports, Cork Airport cannot offer preferential rates on existing routes. However, Cork Airport does offer a generous incentive scheme to airlines planning to launch new routes to any EU destination. The current scheme involves a five-year sliding scale of discounted charges. No airport charge at all is levied in the first year of operation.
EasyJet did not get an incentive from Cork Airport for Gatwick.
As for O'Ceilidh - Aer Arann lost their case in the competition authority in Cork, so yes, sad to say (as I like the man) - he was talking out his ass.
Ryanair welcomes the decision of the Competition Authority, which exposes Padraig O’Ceidigh false claims that Ryanair was trying to put Aer Arann out of business. Even Aer Arann’s Chief Executive, Paul Schultz, recently admitted that these claims were false, when he confirmed in a speech in Cork that Ryanair and Aer Arann don’t really compete with each other because both the airlines only operate on one of Aer Arann’s 40 or so routes.
Irish Competition Authority Drops Aer Arann Complaint ON CORK DUBLIN ROUTE - Low Cost Airline News
Inquiry into Cork-Dublin route ends | Irish Examiner
Aer Arann's complaint not upheld - Irish, Business - Independent.ie
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Jack, you dont understand what you are talking about.
Ryan, you are correct - 30 seconds on google is an amazing thing.
Ryan, you are correct - 30 seconds on google is an amazing thing.
The reason AerArann lost that case was because after the 24th November 2006 both were paying full house price and AerArann had no grounds to complain it was then fair competition.
My hole point of this rant is that Ryanair should have been paying full price to London-Gatwick and then we would have seen who would retain it, this did not happen and Ryanair had the upper hand - easyJet did not have the cash to burn.
How many cases are on-going in Belgium, France and Germany (probably more) into Ryanair receiving such subsidies? somehow airports think prostituting (basically) themselves to Ryanair will result in sustainable traffic.
Also to point out and I cant seem to find it on the internet you might have a look Copenhagen, I think the scheme that was in place was the first of its kind in Ireland launched by the DAA in 2005 it was cancelled in either 2006/07 and replaced with the 3 year cycle scheme not the one at the time of 100% for the first year only (''supposedly'' limited to new routes only)
http://www.corkairport.com/Libraries...haul.sflb.ashx (current airport route support scheme)
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Ryanair did not increase Stansted or Liverpool after they went head to head with Easyjet on Gatwick. I cannot see how the DAA would tolerate the practice of giving one carrier preferential treatment over another on the same route. Even the infamous Ryan deal with Shannon still required them to pay full charges on their London services.
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Jack, are you making this up as you go along or something?
The predatory pricing campaign was nothing to do with landing charges in Cork. It was all to do with RE complaining against Ryanair for undercharging on the ORK DUB route.
FR could prove that their ticket prices were more than the cost of actual delivery of that seat, so the case fell.
Again - Show me one piece of evidence that Cork offered Ryanair an incentive for the Cork Gatwick route.
Especially when Cork Airport stated in 2006:
Air Transport News
The reason AerArann lost that case was because after the 24th November 2006 both were paying full house price and AerArann had no grounds to complain it was then fair competition.
FR could prove that their ticket prices were more than the cost of actual delivery of that seat, so the case fell.
My hole point of this rant is that Ryanair should have been paying full price to London-Gatwick and then we would have seen who would retain it, this did not happen and Ryanair had the upper hand - easyJet did not have the cash to burn.
How many cases are on-going in Belgium, France and Germany (probably more) into Ryanair receiving such subsidies? somehow airports think prostituting (basically) themselves to Ryanair will result in sustainable traffic.
How many cases are on-going in Belgium, France and Germany (probably more) into Ryanair receiving such subsidies? somehow airports think prostituting (basically) themselves to Ryanair will result in sustainable traffic.
Especially when Cork Airport stated in 2006:
As with all other airports, Cork Airport cannot offer preferential rates on existing routes. However, Cork Airport does offer a generous incentive scheme to airlines planning to launch new routes to any EU destination.
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Ryanair did not increase Stansted or Liverpool after they went head to head with Easyjet on Gatwick. I cannot see how the DAA would tolerate the practice of giving one carrier preferential treatment over another on the same route. Even the infamous Ryan deal with Shannon still required them to pay full charges on their London services.
Again - Show me one piece of evidence that Cork offered Ryanair an incentive for the Cork Gatwick route.
As with all other airports, Cork Airport cannot offer preferential rates on existing routes. However, Cork Airport does offer a generous incentive scheme to airlines planning to launch new routes to any EU destination.
An Example here of Ryanair pulling out after 1st year free charges:
East Midlands/Glasgow Prestwick both recieved 100% discounts in their first full year vaild from sometime in December 2007 until December 2008 and rightly so they werent competing directly with any routes - Ryanair had high LF's but no yield both routes were unsustainable and pulled in October 2008 while there was still no fees. The same could be said for Gatwick there was a massive oversupply at the time it went from I think 5 flights per day down to 3, Ryanair at the time had actually planned to increase flights to 3 per day that Winter of 2006 it was all bull and sent easyJet running and Ryan2000 you know that the capacity expansion above is correct. The only think Ryanair is after is no fee's they got that with both Dublin/Gatwick in there first full year of operation and had the upper hand at Cork to drive them out - I dont no if this was the case at Knock/Shannon but ask anyone in the airport they know exactly what I'm talking about.
Ryanair to close two Cork routes - RT News