Carlisle

[SWBKCB]

News & Star | News | Business | Phased £20m revamp of Carlisle Airport

Not sure whether this is news but a couple of interesting quotes

As for progress on updating the airport’s runway to make those passenger flights possible, Mr Tinkler said the issue was now in the hands of the Civil Aviation Authority.

Mr Tinkler pointed out that airlines other than Stobart Air would only express an interest once the runway upgrade has been carried out.

...and navaids and terminal...

[nighthawk117]

Is any airline other than Stobart even looking at starting flights from Carlisle? I can't imagine any would be.

[Porrohman]

Is any airline other than Stobart even looking at starting flights from Carlisle? I can't imagine any would be.

Nor I. Obvious potential destinations would be Dublin, London and Amsterdam but Carlisle hasn't had a particularly good track record with any scheduled flights. London and Dublin would be routes for Stobart. I can't imagine KL being interested in AMS with an F70 and I'd imagine that Stobart would prefer to feed DUB hub.

Thinking out of the box a bit, I wonder whether Aberdeen might be a potential route for Eastern Airways with a J41? I'm not sure how viable it might be so maybe someone with a better local knowledge might like to comment?

[GrahamK]

The only one I could maybe think of would be Citywing to the IOM. Other than that, I can't imagine anyone being interested in Carlisle

[SWBKCB]

Stobart have already announced they intend to operate Atr-42's to Dublin (daily) and Southend (twice daily) "this year".

Not seen any mention of any other interest.

[rob39]

GrahamK - With Citywing now returning to Blackpool and already operating a Newcastle route, I can't see Carlisle being an option any more. But you never know a limited weekend service opening up the western borders area and s/w Scotland, Lakes might work. Depends on what numbers they need to make a profit on a Let 410 (one operator offering £760 pbh) and potential passengers numbers wanting to go their. Doubtful but who knows.

[EK77WNCL]

Could be demand for once weekly summer to Palma/Alicante and maybe on the off chance Tenerife... With who... No idea but there could be demand. Maybe Stobart could invest in some 733's/A32x's and strike up an agreement with TOM?

[GrahamK]

EK777WNCL

Can I have some of whatever it is you're smoking?

[N707ZS]

Once a week flight ends up with the DTVA scenario, what do you do with your staff for the rest of the week. One or two flights a day might just scrape the barrel.

[SWBKCB]

and Carlisle doesn't have the facilities of DTVA

[davidjohnson6]

While the DTV situation comes to mind, Carlisle has the benefit of being much further from a competing airport than DTV is from Newcastle. For locals to reach NCL, MAN or GLA there is a nontrivial cost in both time and money (eg train fare, taxi or long term car park). This could allow the likes of Thomson to charge a bit more than at MAN, effectively selling convenience and overall money saving at a higher airfare. Of course it would likely be a 1x wekly flight on Tues or Wed - can what is a rural area with low population density fill bums on seats ?

PMI / ALC at Carlisle is certainly an innovative idea showing imaginative bluesky thinking and should perhaps be encouraged, even if it's still a good few years from coming into reality.

[GrahamK]

David,

Sorry, but there really is not the population around here to justify a service to Spain. NCL, on a good day is just under an hour to drive. Carlisle itself has an population of around 80,000. If we extend that to folk living in a boundary extending to Dumfries, Kendal and Hexham, that increases to about 150,000.

As you say, it's not exactly the richest of places either.
I'd be surprised if a link to SEN works, no public transport to the airport, a train that gets you into central London in just over 3 hours, and who wants to go to SEN anyway?

[SWBKCB]

Carlisle isn't much further from NCL than DTVA (55 as opposed to 45 miles). It would need a considerable upgrade in the airport infrastructure which isn't currently planned (apart from the runway) - could the current terminal/apron handle a 733/32x? As far as I'm aware the largest airliner to use the terminal has been an Atr-72

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbkcb/14989394313/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbkcb/15606870731/

[GrahamK]

IIRC, about 20 years ago, CAX got a few diversions from NCL, a couple of BA Dash 8s and a couple of Gill ATRs.

Other than that, the biggest airliner to use the airport was a Pan Am 727 brining relatives to Lockerbie.

[stab3.5up]

I would say the weekend break to Cumbria might be the ticket. I would guess the market is more inbound than outbound traffic.

[N707ZS]

Then you are competing with the train.

[NewquayJacob]

Are they building a new terminal or just using the current one?

[highwideandugly]

Pie in the Sky

A lot of wishful thinking on here.Get real everyone.it just won't happen,it is and has always been a con on the Cumbrian folk for Stobarts to get their distribution centre up and running.

Look at all the failed airports and indeed struggling ones.Carlisle as mentioned many times just doesn't have the catchment area or airport infrastructure to succeed.
Lakes traffic..so you arrive at the airport with boots and walking sticks( and dogs?)..what do you do then? Hire car,bus,train or walk!!

[SWBKCB]

The current planning permission doesn't mention the current terminal, hangar and apron area at all - it's purely for the area in the south east of airfield where the freight distribution centre is being built - although it includes new aprons large enough to store a number of 747...

I'm inclined to agree with highwideandugly but can't understand why Stobarts have spent quite so much money.

[nighthawk117]

Thinking out of the box a bit, I wonder whether Aberdeen might be a potential route for Eastern Airways with a J41? I'm not sure how viable it might be so maybe someone with a better local knowledge might like to comment?

I don't think there's an awful lot of demand for flights to Aberdeen. It might have got one passenger about 4 years ago when I was working up there, but nowadays I can't see there being much demand.

Given the runway length and lack of demand, the only possibilities are going to be airlines operating turboprops - FlyBE, Eastern and CityWing. But with such great connections to the rail network, there's just no demand for domestic flights, and I don't think the current terminal has customs/immigration facilities, so international is a non-starter.

CityWing may be a possibility - flying into Carlisle would open up easy connections to the rail network, but then there already direct flights from IOM to most of the population centres of the UK, so there's not going to be much demand here either.

Beyond a Stobart bankrolled route to London/Dublin, I just can't see anything else that might work.

Are they building a new terminal or just using the current one?

The original plans called for a new terminal and re-aligned runway, the latter of which had to be delivered before work on the freight depot could begin. But thanks to the local farmer complaining that all we would get would be a freight depot, now all we will be getting is a freight depot. Kind of ironic really!