ABERDEEN
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Hey everyone!!! 
Passenger traffic up 13.1% for Aug 2007 v. Aug last year, fastest in BAA network!
GSM adding TFS for S08!
Houston coming in Jan!!!
Everything is rosy in the BAA bunker!!!
Passenger traffic up 13.1% for Aug 2007 v. Aug last year, fastest in BAA network!
GSM adding TFS for S08!
Houston coming in Jan!!!
Everything is rosy in the BAA bunker!!!
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Err..........I was being a tad sarcastic about BAA, but I'm sure you knew that!
Globespan now also axing one of the two TFS flights that were planned this winter as well, though I think might be to do with the closure of the base for winter meaning that there isn't an a/c available to fly it on a "W" roster.
Leaves now just a Fri TFS, & AGP.
How can ABZ be sooooo different from summer to winter?
I also see irate punters have responded to KB's letter defending BAA's stewardship of ABZ. Something about check-in queues starting at the entrance to the terminal, plus a lack of shelter both terminal & airside for passengers.
But I'm sure KB knows all this - after all, he works there...doesn't he?
Globespan now also axing one of the two TFS flights that were planned this winter as well, though I think might be to do with the closure of the base for winter meaning that there isn't an a/c available to fly it on a "W" roster.
Leaves now just a Fri TFS, & AGP.
How can ABZ be sooooo different from summer to winter?
I also see irate punters have responded to KB's letter defending BAA's stewardship of ABZ. Something about check-in queues starting at the entrance to the terminal, plus a lack of shelter both terminal & airside for passengers.
But I'm sure KB knows all this - after all, he works there...doesn't he?
Last edited by Richard Taylor; 13th Sep 2007 at 18:12.
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Tourism
You would have thought that when airlines are introducing new routes or setting up shop at an airport, that they would set fares etc to ensure that they maximise their yield so that if loads are good, then so is yield. There are too many tales of protests at the costs of operating at ABZ by airlines for there not to be some substance to them. GSM didn't give much time for the winter routes to establish themselves before pulling them. As TAD said, you just don't generally book these city breaks months in advance. There HAS to be more to it than that, & I agree BAA are a factor, no matter their denials.
So how to diversify at ABZ? Oil will always be a factor, but is ABZ forever to be a business destination only? How is the tourism angle for the city & 'shire marketed? I noted recently that NE Scotland was the only area where tourists numbers had dropped. Maybe that was just the lousy summer. But maybe not enough is done yet to market the "charms" of the area.
As everyone knows up here, golfing tourism is high on the agenda with several large projects being mulled over, not least of which is Trump's. Nicklaus is also designing a course. The drop in tourists may exercise all with an interest in developing the area (& BAA Abdn are apparently are one of those signed up to the "City & Shire initiative", the campaign that adornes literature up here (& an Eastern Saab).
But with the terminal was packed to capacity, BAA has to stop reacting & start being proactive in its expansion plans. Why was the situation allowed to build up where queues merged into one, there is STILL a lack of baggage carousels, & no-one knows which check-in queue is which. Also they had supposedly signed a deal to allow a second taxi firm to pick-up/drop-off at the terminal, yet still there are problems. What about the joke of a bus service??
So how to diversify at ABZ? Oil will always be a factor, but is ABZ forever to be a business destination only? How is the tourism angle for the city & 'shire marketed? I noted recently that NE Scotland was the only area where tourists numbers had dropped. Maybe that was just the lousy summer. But maybe not enough is done yet to market the "charms" of the area.
As everyone knows up here, golfing tourism is high on the agenda with several large projects being mulled over, not least of which is Trump's. Nicklaus is also designing a course. The drop in tourists may exercise all with an interest in developing the area (& BAA Abdn are apparently are one of those signed up to the "City & Shire initiative", the campaign that adornes literature up here (& an Eastern Saab).
But with the terminal was packed to capacity, BAA has to stop reacting & start being proactive in its expansion plans. Why was the situation allowed to build up where queues merged into one, there is STILL a lack of baggage carousels, & no-one knows which check-in queue is which. Also they had supposedly signed a deal to allow a second taxi firm to pick-up/drop-off at the terminal, yet still there are problems. What about the joke of a bus service??
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NATS Charges
Just a small point which I don't think has been raised - BAA can go with all the deals it wants to but if it does not get the support of NATS then it woill not make much difference. NATS charges at Aberdeen are twice that of Edinburgh and Glasgow! The handling agents are also more expensive. It's not just the responsibilty of the BAA.
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Firstly, I should be honest and say I used to work at ABZ airport about 25 years ago, in the hey days of the first oil boom.
Not for the BAA.
I was in ABZ this week for the first time in over 10 years. I was amazed at how much of the infrastructure I recognised. The check-in was just AWFUL. Reclaim - sue for misrepresentation. Airside - well, there's carpet now but not much else.
Having read the last few pages of this thread and having seen the problems first hand this week - albeit very briefly; there are some very obvious issues that the BAA will have to address:
How to make a major step forward in terminal space?
How to improve passenger flows?
How to keep ALL their customers 'onside' during any major change.
I am nor sure how much of the land around the airport is owned by the BAA but I believe they own much of the business park surrounding the airport.
My view:
If they own it - reclaim the Airport Hotel site (Moat House? - used to be a Skean Dhu). Re-build the otherside of the Speedbird Hotel and then demolish current hotel.
Move short term (multi storey preferably) car park backwards on to this site - a bit of road re-organising for the heli-ports etc.
Build a new Terminal in current car park.
Link new terminal to old - old becomes 'airside'.
During work provide non-stop transfer buses from new car park (including taxi rank) to current terminal.
New building could be modular planned for future expansion.
Space for 2010 onwards style aviation - more self check, planned bag drop areas, better reclaim facilities, MORE space for inward Immigration (as checks are going to get more thorough) etc.
AND..do not build as a PALACE - build a quality, functional facility; designed after consultation with the tenants. Space for the passengers, space for the workers - yes real offices and real rest areas.
Additional parking areas? - didn't see enough airside to know where to start!
Just one persons view after a depressing day in ABZ!
GH
Not for the BAA.
I was in ABZ this week for the first time in over 10 years. I was amazed at how much of the infrastructure I recognised. The check-in was just AWFUL. Reclaim - sue for misrepresentation. Airside - well, there's carpet now but not much else.
Having read the last few pages of this thread and having seen the problems first hand this week - albeit very briefly; there are some very obvious issues that the BAA will have to address:
How to make a major step forward in terminal space?
How to improve passenger flows?
How to keep ALL their customers 'onside' during any major change.
I am nor sure how much of the land around the airport is owned by the BAA but I believe they own much of the business park surrounding the airport.
My view:
If they own it - reclaim the Airport Hotel site (Moat House? - used to be a Skean Dhu). Re-build the otherside of the Speedbird Hotel and then demolish current hotel.
Move short term (multi storey preferably) car park backwards on to this site - a bit of road re-organising for the heli-ports etc.
Build a new Terminal in current car park.
Link new terminal to old - old becomes 'airside'.
During work provide non-stop transfer buses from new car park (including taxi rank) to current terminal.
New building could be modular planned for future expansion.
Space for 2010 onwards style aviation - more self check, planned bag drop areas, better reclaim facilities, MORE space for inward Immigration (as checks are going to get more thorough) etc.
AND..do not build as a PALACE - build a quality, functional facility; designed after consultation with the tenants. Space for the passengers, space for the workers - yes real offices and real rest areas.
Additional parking areas? - didn't see enough airside to know where to start!
Just one persons view after a depressing day in ABZ!
GH
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barneythedog wrote:
Two things..... part of the problem from a NATS perspective is that the charges are set by weight. Aberdeen has lots and lots of aircraft that are in the smaller weight ranges compared to Glasgow and Edinburgh. Unfortunately, the same standard and level of ATC service has to be provided whether it be a Jetstream or a 747! Glasgow handles far more metric tonnes per year than Aberdeen but the ATC service is no different and has the same basic costs which have to be paid for.
I also disagree that BAA are hampered by NATS charges. Lets look at a Boeing 737-700 with 149 passengers at take off weight of 70Mt. From BAA's published figures the costs are as follows.
Aberdeen: BAA Weight charge = 25x£4.63 + 45x£5.15 = £347.50
BAA Passenger Charge = 149x £13.95 = £2078.55
Total BAA charges (excl parking) £2426.05
NATS Charges = 20x £5.90 + 50x£3.65 = £300.50
Knocking 10% off NATS charges isn't going to make a significant difference to the overall cost (£30) - but knocking 10% off BAA Pax Charge is in a different league (£207).
Safe Flying
DD
NATS Charges
Just a small point which I don't think has been raised - BAA can go with all the deals it wants to but if it does not get the support of NATS then it woill not make much difference. NATS charges at Aberdeen are twice that of Edinburgh and Glasgow! The handling agents are also more expensive. It's not just the responsibilty of the BAA.
Just a small point which I don't think has been raised - BAA can go with all the deals it wants to but if it does not get the support of NATS then it woill not make much difference. NATS charges at Aberdeen are twice that of Edinburgh and Glasgow! The handling agents are also more expensive. It's not just the responsibilty of the BAA.
I also disagree that BAA are hampered by NATS charges. Lets look at a Boeing 737-700 with 149 passengers at take off weight of 70Mt. From BAA's published figures the costs are as follows.
Aberdeen: BAA Weight charge = 25x£4.63 + 45x£5.15 = £347.50
BAA Passenger Charge = 149x £13.95 = £2078.55
Total BAA charges (excl parking) £2426.05
NATS Charges = 20x £5.90 + 50x£3.65 = £300.50
Knocking 10% off NATS charges isn't going to make a significant difference to the overall cost (£30) - but knocking 10% off BAA Pax Charge is in a different league (£207).
Safe Flying
DD
Last edited by Data Dad; 14th Sep 2007 at 11:56.
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Quote Stewartflyer:
So how come when I got back today there are several new check in desks to the right of the main entrance. I also hear the terminal is to be expanded into what was the drop off area and the concrete blocks will remain with work to begin shortly? As RT says - it's all rosy.......
Err, those check in desks are the new ticket desks for ABZ biggest carrier
So how come when I got back today there are several new check in desks to the right of the main entrance. I also hear the terminal is to be expanded into what was the drop off area and the concrete blocks will remain with work to begin shortly? As RT says - it's all rosy.......
Err, those check in desks are the new ticket desks for ABZ biggest carrier
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Great E service to SVG
I see the Saab 2000 has morphed into a JS41 this evening & I think it was a Jetstream yesterday evening also. Have T3 "downsized" already only a month after introduction, or is it just a temporary thing?
Seems X9 are doing SVG/AES & BGO "turn about" with BGO today, SVG/AES yesterday.
Finally has that fox that has been skulking about airside been caught yet??
(& I'm not talking about the MD!
)
Seems X9 are doing SVG/AES & BGO "turn about" with BGO today, SVG/AES yesterday.
Finally has that fox that has been skulking about airside been caught yet??
(& I'm not talking about the MD!
)
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Morning WB:
Yes, good news for Eastern. Just reading the T3 announcement on their website about this. So I presume that one will be allocated SVG?
I have sung T3's praises in the past on here about how they have grown & made a go of routes that other airlines left behind & would otherwise probably not be flown by anyone else, whatever routing you use to get up here (between you & ATC to sort out)! BUT:
Do you not think SVG is a tad oversubscribed, or are you confident of gaining a foothold on what is a crowded market? And Wideroe are adding a nightstopper for W07, so yet more flights.
Interesting to read the comments about the Saab having the abililty to develop routes into Europe. What with bmi pulling off AMS & BRU, could T3 look at these out of ABZ with the Saab? What euro routes out of here could T3 look at? And would they have to be solely oil-related?
Of course they may be looking elsewhere away form here, but more ticket desks I presume also mean more routes being evaluated.
Yes, good news for Eastern. Just reading the T3 announcement on their website about this. So I presume that one will be allocated SVG?
I have sung T3's praises in the past on here about how they have grown & made a go of routes that other airlines left behind & would otherwise probably not be flown by anyone else, whatever routing you use to get up here (between you & ATC to sort out)! BUT:
Do you not think SVG is a tad oversubscribed, or are you confident of gaining a foothold on what is a crowded market? And Wideroe are adding a nightstopper for W07, so yet more flights.
Interesting to read the comments about the Saab having the abililty to develop routes into Europe. What with bmi pulling off AMS & BRU, could T3 look at these out of ABZ with the Saab? What euro routes out of here could T3 look at? And would they have to be solely oil-related?
Of course they may be looking elsewhere away form here, but more ticket desks I presume also mean more routes being evaluated.
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Hello ATIS:
WB may know better, but I have seen G-CERZ which is in a "sort-of" T3 scheme. Mainly white, small T3 titles & the blue/red/white T3 tail. Smart it looks too.
The imminent one, G-CERY, will as I understand be in full T3 titles.
I assumed the new check-in/ticket desks were for T3, maybe they're for X9...or they could in fact be defence ramparts to protect BAA staff from irate queueing pax!
ps. you know Autumn's arrived in Aberdeen when great hulking flocks of gulls start terrorising everyone around the runway threshold! Must be harvest time for the farmers whose fields lie on the approaches! Seems firing a cartridge at them (the gulls, nae the farmers!!) may not suffice!!
WB may know better, but I have seen G-CERZ which is in a "sort-of" T3 scheme. Mainly white, small T3 titles & the blue/red/white T3 tail. Smart it looks too.
The imminent one, G-CERY, will as I understand be in full T3 titles.
I assumed the new check-in/ticket desks were for T3, maybe they're for X9...or they could in fact be defence ramparts to protect BAA staff from irate queueing pax!
ps. you know Autumn's arrived in Aberdeen when great hulking flocks of gulls start terrorising everyone around the runway threshold! Must be harvest time for the farmers whose fields lie on the approaches! Seems firing a cartridge at them (the gulls, nae the farmers!!) may not suffice!!
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Oh just wait for a right dump of snow here,or the wrong kind of fog anywhere.Having spent 9hrs stuck in that terminal due to weather,I would rather have had root canal treatment.
BAA you need to shift the cargo building up to the bomb dump,and stick an extension on the terminal to the south.Purely for international passengers.Keep the existing one as domestic.The thing that's required is space.There is none.Please go to the TSB,Northern Rock
,and borrow/spend some money.Please..
BAA you need to shift the cargo building up to the bomb dump,and stick an extension on the terminal to the south.Purely for international passengers.Keep the existing one as domestic.The thing that's required is space.There is none.Please go to the TSB,Northern Rock
,and borrow/spend some money.Please..
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I've just been told that ABZ is the only commercial airport in EUROPE where you don't have right of way when driving in.
(Hence the almighty queues backed up Dyce Drive morning and evening, miles past the start of the filter lane)
Can't be true, can it ?!
(Hence the almighty queues backed up Dyce Drive morning and evening, miles past the start of the filter lane)
Can't be true, can it ?!
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Ceefax:
Yup, terminal approach road at right angles to Dyce Drive, traffic-light controlled with filter.
Suppose it could be possible to realign, to join the roads up with a curve & have traffic coming the other way from the industrial estate (ie. eastbound along Dyce Dr) give way.
But that costs MONEY & it won't happen. Besides, may be a petrol station in the way.
Yup, terminal approach road at right angles to Dyce Drive, traffic-light controlled with filter.
Suppose it could be possible to realign, to join the roads up with a curve & have traffic coming the other way from the industrial estate (ie. eastbound along Dyce Dr) give way.
But that costs MONEY & it won't happen. Besides, may be a petrol station in the way.
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The airport is surrounded by Industrial Estates and peak hours is bad from the south and north.Little country roads are used as major trunk roads.Artics have to use them as they cannot go through Dyce main street.The Cooncil put a cycle track in from the south and Dyce,but it's hardly used.It would have been nice if they had put it all the way round the North side to link up with the Formartine old railway line.Problem is just too many cars squeezing into 2 bottlenecks.If you gave the Airport traffic priority,then the Industrial estates would be choked.More people working in the Industrial estates have to take the two wheel approach.Certainly keep you fit.
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RT
I think that the new desks are to replace the old ones, as I am led to believe that T3 are the largest operator out of ABZ and they demanded to be more central and be more visual.
Not seen the new a/c but presume it will be new colours
I think that the new desks are to replace the old ones, as I am led to believe that T3 are the largest operator out of ABZ and they demanded to be more central and be more visual.
Not seen the new a/c but presume it will be new colours
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RT
Sorry, missed a few questions
SVG may be over subscribed at the moment, but I do not think that Eastern are planning on all these operators to continue. An attack on X9 possibly. Or the dodgy Dash 8 operators
Sorry, missed a few questions
SVG may be over subscribed at the moment, but I do not think that Eastern are planning on all these operators to continue. An attack on X9 possibly. Or the dodgy Dash 8 operators