ABERDEEN
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Interesting debate guys.
It is sometimes difficult I guess, from monitoring Approach/Radar freq, to guage how busy ABZ is. It may appear quiet, but traffic ahead may have been moved on to Director freq. Or the offshore helis are coming in VFR/SVFR, in which case they never appear on Approach freq, unless they are specifically heading for ILS etc. Most of them would have been tx directly from the Offshore freq to Tower, so whilst 119.05 may be quiet, the Tower may be v.busy with inbounds/outbounds/circuiters.
Being able to lose height in time seems to be an issue coming off P18, with its higher base? That may be one factor in the "zig-zag" vectors, as well as positioning in traffic. Hasn't happened recently I don't think, but not first time I've seen traffic orbiting on final approach (including one right over my house, Embraer!) to get the height off.
Putting the Mil out to sea, well they do that already, & conflict with the helis! Was one Bristow 332 not rocked by a passing Tornado not that long ago, so close it passed? Albeit there is not as much heli traffic to the south.
Stewartflyer:
Thank you, patience is a virtue! I'll wait for the more good news.
Old BA/Brymon Hangar:
Rumoured that T3 are going to use/have acquired this hangar. Any truth in this? Perhaps in response to X9 acquiring Caley Airborne? Who uses it presently, if anyone?
It is sometimes difficult I guess, from monitoring Approach/Radar freq, to guage how busy ABZ is. It may appear quiet, but traffic ahead may have been moved on to Director freq. Or the offshore helis are coming in VFR/SVFR, in which case they never appear on Approach freq, unless they are specifically heading for ILS etc. Most of them would have been tx directly from the Offshore freq to Tower, so whilst 119.05 may be quiet, the Tower may be v.busy with inbounds/outbounds/circuiters.
Being able to lose height in time seems to be an issue coming off P18, with its higher base? That may be one factor in the "zig-zag" vectors, as well as positioning in traffic. Hasn't happened recently I don't think, but not first time I've seen traffic orbiting on final approach (including one right over my house, Embraer!) to get the height off.
Putting the Mil out to sea, well they do that already, & conflict with the helis! Was one Bristow 332 not rocked by a passing Tornado not that long ago, so close it passed? Albeit there is not as much heli traffic to the south.
Stewartflyer:
Thank you, patience is a virtue! I'll wait for the more good news.
Old BA/Brymon Hangar:
Rumoured that T3 are going to use/have acquired this hangar. Any truth in this? Perhaps in response to X9 acquiring Caley Airborne? Who uses it presently, if anyone?
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I am ex Eastern and used to fly the J41 so I am well acquainted with the airspace on the east coast. ATCOs need to appreciate that there are a number of issues that on some occasions, will prevent P600 being an option due to the extra distance. The J41 doesn't have fantastic short field performance and even off Aberdeen it can have a restriction on its allowable take off weight due to performance. When there is visible moisture and the temperature is 10C or less, then the anti icing needs to go on and this reduces the allowable take off weight even further. From memory, R34 is not a problem but going off R16 with the anti icing on will result in a performance penalty of a few hundred kilos. Might not sound much but turboprops don't burn much fuel so any reduction in the allowable take off weight could have implications regarding the amount of fuel that can be uplifted in Aberdeen. From memory (couple of years ago now!) the longer routes such as East Mids and Humberside could be difficult to achieve with high loads and unfavourable environmental conditions. Especially when you take into account a airway routing to Humberside is more or less down to Glasgow then Dean Cross then Pole hill before heading east to get back to the east coast. The difference in distance must be significant!
Airlines often bunch their schedules together. It makes connections more feasible for the passenger plus it allows the airline a chance to swap aircraft etc for maintenance that maybe needed. Even flag carriers adopt this practice and it is more wide spread than you think!
To the ATCOs... I strongly recommend that you arrange some fam flights with Eastern on their East Coast routes. It is a myth that fam flights no longer exist for Air Traffic staff. Fam flights are straight forward to arrange and you will be made most welcome by the guys and girls at the 'pointy end'. It will allow you to see the operation from the other side of the radio and will allow you to chat to the crew. You would be made most welcome if you went to Humberside and then you can see the whole set up in Eastern's operations department. Perhaps after that, then the illusion that they are a cowboy outfit may change?
Finally, if you guys feel so strongly about it and if nothing is being done within NATS then why don't you start filling in MORs for situations where you think safety is at risk?
Airlines often bunch their schedules together. It makes connections more feasible for the passenger plus it allows the airline a chance to swap aircraft etc for maintenance that maybe needed. Even flag carriers adopt this practice and it is more wide spread than you think!
To the ATCOs... I strongly recommend that you arrange some fam flights with Eastern on their East Coast routes. It is a myth that fam flights no longer exist for Air Traffic staff. Fam flights are straight forward to arrange and you will be made most welcome by the guys and girls at the 'pointy end'. It will allow you to see the operation from the other side of the radio and will allow you to chat to the crew. You would be made most welcome if you went to Humberside and then you can see the whole set up in Eastern's operations department. Perhaps after that, then the illusion that they are a cowboy outfit may change?
Finally, if you guys feel so strongly about it and if nothing is being done within NATS then why don't you start filling in MORs for situations where you think safety is at risk?
Last edited by Mister Geezer; 2nd Sep 2007 at 19:16.
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I believe that there are plans to try and get P18 H24,but that is in the future and at a level way beyond us coalface workers.Filing an observation is raising a safety issue and is investigated.As for the rest of the comments about visuals,speeds,etc then all this isn't new.All ATCOs are aware of performance limitations of most types.I use the speed readouts on radar,and I'm quite aware of what speed everyone is doing.Visuals well if you're number 1 and the tower ok's it then great.If your number 9 then no chance.Opposite end requests are constant if the wind is light.The military do play in the danger areas,but they have to get to and back from them.Also they do a great deal of low level.Just saying play in the Danger Areas ain't that simple.
As far as flying in Class G ( Eastern and the rest)then personally I really don't care what you do.Just the next time a Tornado formation fills your windscreen in bandit country, then perhaps I might have made a point.It's not a case of if,but rather when with the amount of movements in Class G.God forbid that there isn't a collision or would TCAS save you?OK I don't mind if you have a crack at me for pointing out a safety issue.Carry on RASing and RISing if you want to take the risk.I certainly will not be sitting in any jump seat in Class G thanks.
As far as flying in Class G ( Eastern and the rest)then personally I really don't care what you do.Just the next time a Tornado formation fills your windscreen in bandit country, then perhaps I might have made a point.It's not a case of if,but rather when with the amount of movements in Class G.God forbid that there isn't a collision or would TCAS save you?OK I don't mind if you have a crack at me for pointing out a safety issue.Carry on RASing and RISing if you want to take the risk.I certainly will not be sitting in any jump seat in Class G thanks.
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IAH with...CITY STAR?
That's what the report says!
First flights by Jan 2008, it is claimed.
Long way in a DO328!
Meanwhile GSM, as reported in their thread, reviewing ABZ ops. Pulling out as a base in winter & reviewing their schedules for winter & next summer.
First flights by Jan 2008, it is claimed.
Long way in a DO328!
Meanwhile GSM, as reported in their thread, reviewing ABZ ops. Pulling out as a base in winter & reviewing their schedules for winter & next summer.
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City Star IAH confirmed
Appears on their website.
A/C is a B757 in a "VIP" configuration. In X9 cols, from the pic I've seen.
Wonder where that is coming from - Icelandair? X9 are Icelandic-owned.
Hope its not TF-FIT, GSM have had so many problems with that one!
Flights 4x weekly.
A/C is a B757 in a "VIP" configuration. In X9 cols, from the pic I've seen.
Wonder where that is coming from - Icelandair? X9 are Icelandic-owned.
Hope its not TF-FIT, GSM have had so many problems with that one!
Flights 4x weekly.
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Long way for a 757 off of 1830 (+150 sometime) Metres.Maybe direct Houston means via Gander for fuel westbound.ETOPS would mean it would have to take the Northerly tracks making the journeys longer.Ah well good luck.Something different.Standby for incoming flak.
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""Geoff Runcie, chief executive of Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce, said: "The chamber has been working closely with the business community and BAA Aberdeen to better understand the need for a direct service between the two oil capitals.
"We are sure that the business community will value this direct service and support it to save precious travel time and to increase their productive time in both Aberdeen and Houston""
What a load of rubbish .... as one who travels this route frequently just exactly how much time does Geoff Runcie think will be saved to increase "productive time"? ...... especially if as seems likely a refuelling stop is required.
"We are sure that the business community will value this direct service and support it to save precious travel time and to increase their productive time in both Aberdeen and Houston""
What a load of rubbish .... as one who travels this route frequently just exactly how much time does Geoff Runcie think will be saved to increase "productive time"? ...... especially if as seems likely a refuelling stop is required.
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Are there plans by City Star to feed to IAH flight from Norway? If so, it would require some adjusting of the schedule to/from Norway.
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Don't for get Privatair who are a 757 operator and long haul VIP airline services is their niche market (look at Lufthansa or Swiss). They would be the ideal airline due to their experience but perhaps too expensive for City Star?
I can’t see this lasting though!
I can’t see this lasting though!
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Well, given their current schedule, I do not see any useful connections other than from OSL - assuming that the flight to IAH will depart around noon, there is only one arrival from Norway am that would allow for connections. The next flight into ABZ is at 1305 and covers Stavanger, Kristansund and Alesund all in one go. They will either have to base an aircraft in Norway or return one of the morning flights to SVG without going to Kristiansund or Alesund first. We shall see
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Rumoured to be £2500 a pop ..... can't see this being the preferred route to connecting via Amsterdam / London / Paris for a fraction of this cost. This is beyond all but the most senior management and I can't see that there will be demand from 150 of them taking this up every week for the convenience of flying from Aberdeen.
I'm not sure who did City Stars market research but Oil Companies don't splash cash any more.
I'm not sure who did City Stars market research but Oil Companies don't splash cash any more.
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Well the first flight will have Aberdeen Chamber of Commerce on it for sure.You ,me and fellow cooncil tax payers will be coughing up for that.
Still not convinced that a 757 could get off Aberdeen to Houston direct.I haven't seen anything else do it,apart from maybe a Rocket Gulfstream.Everything else has needed a splash and dash either at Shannon,or Gander.Eastbound should be OK,it's Westbound that I'm curious about.
Still not convinced that a 757 could get off Aberdeen to Houston direct.I haven't seen anything else do it,apart from maybe a Rocket Gulfstream.Everything else has needed a splash and dash either at Shannon,or Gander.Eastbound should be OK,it's Westbound that I'm curious about.
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In the local press (p&j) Globespan were blaming BAA for them not being able to continue with the flights - summit to do with BAA not being able to supply GSM with costs. Any thoughts on this? I've always thought that BAA @ ABZ hadn't a clue, am I doing them a dis-service?