New routes for Bristols new extension
It would work IF the tickets weren't seemingly always North of £600.
I'd pay a small premium to fly out of BRS and avoid the whole LHR/M25 hassle. But not when you have your pick of good airlines out of LHR for £300 less per person.
The route IS subsidised because I bet £1.5m given for infrastructure improvements was going to be spent anyway and effectively therefore its a handout to the airport which can then pass it on to the Operator via means of a 'commercially confidential' range of fees and charges. Its just how these things work and may well be in the interest of the local area in the long run. The council can't just give Continental £1,500,000 put they can wash it to them by means of a third party.
'Tis the way of the commercial world.
I think daily's too much. Every other day and share it with Cardiff... And its not really I viable link for London until it gets either a rail spur to Temple Meads or a Dual Carriageway to it. And it never will.
I can't see Hank and Martha hunched up on the Bristol Flyer Rail Station shuttle bus for 40mins with a months worth of bags sat at the lights in the rough end of Bristol; somehow.
Cheers
WWW
I'd pay a small premium to fly out of BRS and avoid the whole LHR/M25 hassle. But not when you have your pick of good airlines out of LHR for £300 less per person.
The route IS subsidised because I bet £1.5m given for infrastructure improvements was going to be spent anyway and effectively therefore its a handout to the airport which can then pass it on to the Operator via means of a 'commercially confidential' range of fees and charges. Its just how these things work and may well be in the interest of the local area in the long run. The council can't just give Continental £1,500,000 put they can wash it to them by means of a third party.
'Tis the way of the commercial world.
I think daily's too much. Every other day and share it with Cardiff... And its not really I viable link for London until it gets either a rail spur to Temple Meads or a Dual Carriageway to it. And it never will.
I can't see Hank and Martha hunched up on the Bristol Flyer Rail Station shuttle bus for 40mins with a months worth of bags sat at the lights in the rough end of Bristol; somehow.
Cheers
WWW
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BRISTOL
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem with people nowadays is they dont give things a chance, how can they say its gona be axed after its only been operating 2 months?
People are very unawre of just where you can get too from BRS nowadays.
New York is the only route that people don't know about, just ask some of your friends if they knew BRS serves 3 airports in Egypt, or go's to the Gambia twice in the winter, or that EZY serve places like BUD/PRG/SXF/PSA hardly anybody is aware, or that there are weekly charters with both FCA and Balkan to both BOJ and VAR, most people will not have a clue.
How bout the flights to Split and Olbia? - Not a clue!
I think the companies that take a risk at BRS reep rewards in the end, EZY can't of been massively sure when they took over GO and i remember there being talk of pulling out, they stuck with it and now BRS is the busiest base outside of London for them.
Another is Kosmar Holidays who came in a few years back and threw a couple of the smaller greek islands into the equation, and they must of been feeling very cautious about it and hey presto they're raking it in from BRS.
Give it time, it'll do well, 70% is not that bad, and its only going to take a few more peeps to get that up to 80% which is a safe playground as Windsheer said.
\'Sorry above should read NY is not the only route\'
People are very unawre of just where you can get too from BRS nowadays.
New York is the only route that people don't know about, just ask some of your friends if they knew BRS serves 3 airports in Egypt, or go's to the Gambia twice in the winter, or that EZY serve places like BUD/PRG/SXF/PSA hardly anybody is aware, or that there are weekly charters with both FCA and Balkan to both BOJ and VAR, most people will not have a clue.
How bout the flights to Split and Olbia? - Not a clue!
I think the companies that take a risk at BRS reep rewards in the end, EZY can't of been massively sure when they took over GO and i remember there being talk of pulling out, they stuck with it and now BRS is the busiest base outside of London for them.
Another is Kosmar Holidays who came in a few years back and threw a couple of the smaller greek islands into the equation, and they must of been feeling very cautious about it and hey presto they're raking it in from BRS.
Give it time, it'll do well, 70% is not that bad, and its only going to take a few more peeps to get that up to 80% which is a safe playground as Windsheer said.
\'Sorry above should read NY is not the only route\'
Brunel to Concorde
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virtute et Industria, et Sumorsaete Ealle
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WWW,
Until the middle of June you could book return flights direct on the Continental website for around £335, incl taxes and charges, for virtually any period, flying til the end of August. I often did comparisons with other UK airports on CO to EWR and, for comparable dates, BRS was usually the cheapest.
The latest fares offer on the BRS website show all-in return fares of £308 or £341 (weekends). Apparently there are similar fares at the US end and this 'summer sale' was what gave rise to the Airliners.net thread with people suggesting it was probably a desperate last throw of the dice .
Having said this I have also heard anecdotal evidence that supports your contention. No wonder outsiders like me are confused. On the one hand we hear CO are almost giving away tickets and on the other we are told fares are too high.
As for the money from the SWRDA, you are right when you say the work would have been done anyway and the airport has an extra £1.5 million to spend as it sees fit. I already said that no-one outside the organisations concerned knows what contract arrangements were made (or presumably shouldn't know), but the Airliners thread talks about a one-year route subsidy which is somewhat different, unless of course an insider has leaked that is what BRS has effectively paid CO.
I wasn't really thinking of Hank and Martha. I was thinking more of business pax who would have a fast track through arrivals (I presume BRS is at least looking after the CO premium pax to that extent) then hop into a taxi and be at Temple Meads in twenty minutes for their HST to Paddington.
WATABENCH,
You say people don't know about the routes you outlined yet most of these, from the word go, have carried high load factors and in many cases extremely high ones. There is no doubt the region has the catchment to support a New York service as well. This is what makes me think there must be other reasons other than a lack of knowledge, albeit I still think advertsing at this end could be better. Can't speak for the USA.
Windsheer,
You are undoubtedly right about the load factor having to be raised yet no-one has yet addressed WATABENCH's and my puzzlement re BHX which also appeared to have an overall load factor similar to BRS's in June, albeit spread over twice the number of flights.
Also around 69% on BRS-EWR throughout the year WOULD meet CO's stated aim for the first year of 75,000 pax.
Until the middle of June you could book return flights direct on the Continental website for around £335, incl taxes and charges, for virtually any period, flying til the end of August. I often did comparisons with other UK airports on CO to EWR and, for comparable dates, BRS was usually the cheapest.
The latest fares offer on the BRS website show all-in return fares of £308 or £341 (weekends). Apparently there are similar fares at the US end and this 'summer sale' was what gave rise to the Airliners.net thread with people suggesting it was probably a desperate last throw of the dice .
Having said this I have also heard anecdotal evidence that supports your contention. No wonder outsiders like me are confused. On the one hand we hear CO are almost giving away tickets and on the other we are told fares are too high.
As for the money from the SWRDA, you are right when you say the work would have been done anyway and the airport has an extra £1.5 million to spend as it sees fit. I already said that no-one outside the organisations concerned knows what contract arrangements were made (or presumably shouldn't know), but the Airliners thread talks about a one-year route subsidy which is somewhat different, unless of course an insider has leaked that is what BRS has effectively paid CO.
I wasn't really thinking of Hank and Martha. I was thinking more of business pax who would have a fast track through arrivals (I presume BRS is at least looking after the CO premium pax to that extent) then hop into a taxi and be at Temple Meads in twenty minutes for their HST to Paddington.
WATABENCH,
You say people don't know about the routes you outlined yet most of these, from the word go, have carried high load factors and in many cases extremely high ones. There is no doubt the region has the catchment to support a New York service as well. This is what makes me think there must be other reasons other than a lack of knowledge, albeit I still think advertsing at this end could be better. Can't speak for the USA.
Windsheer,
You are undoubtedly right about the load factor having to be raised yet no-one has yet addressed WATABENCH's and my puzzlement re BHX which also appeared to have an overall load factor similar to BRS's in June, albeit spread over twice the number of flights.
Also around 69% on BRS-EWR throughout the year WOULD meet CO's stated aim for the first year of 75,000 pax.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Near sheep!
Posts: 915
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not one to bury my head......I was one of them. Having worked at BRS for sometime, long haul flights are easily affected by the weather.
Although, a they may be lucky enough to have low loads whenever the wx could get in their way!!
Nice to see it succeeding anyhow!!
Although, a they may be lucky enough to have low loads whenever the wx could get in their way!!
Nice to see it succeeding anyhow!!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WWW the fares for the next 2 weeks or so are high, maybe this is because the flights are extremely well booked and the cheap fares are no longer available??
I agree on US knowledge of the area though - maybe an idea for the South-West to get themsleves over to US and not just EWR to shout a bit louder on the subject. Also it is not just US that need a bit of help - many in the south west are aware of BRS-EWR but still believe that they have to go to LHR/LGW for anywhere else west of Dublin
I agree on US knowledge of the area though - maybe an idea for the South-West to get themsleves over to US and not just EWR to shout a bit louder on the subject. Also it is not just US that need a bit of help - many in the south west are aware of BRS-EWR but still believe that they have to go to LHR/LGW for anywhere else west of Dublin
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somerset, United Kingdom
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am amazed that the EWR route hasnt taken off in the way that it was expected too. I really can't believe that people would prefer to use LHR rather than BRS. I fly quite expensively and whenever I can I use AMS as my hub. Its a much more user friendly airport and from BRS I can be in AMS in less time than it takes to me drive to LHR and park up!! I find LHR to be a nightmare, last time I used Terminal 4 it took me more than 3 hours to check in on a BA flight!!
Keep up the good work BRS - you know it makes sense !!
Keep up the good work BRS - you know it makes sense !!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps many travellers from the Bristol area are members of Frequent Flyers clubs from airlines other than CO, hence if they had points with BA for example, it would be better for them to fly from LHR
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Somerset
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting this conversation on CO BRS -EWR. 69% for a route 2 months old is not bad at all.
Its a new route. New routes take time to market themselves.
Most american folks that i deal with in day to day life are i feel quite ignorant in there knowledge of the UK. i usually ask mostly leisure passengers where they have visited etc always the same places.
London, Oxford, Cambridge and sometimes Bath. Now Bath could be a positive place to tap into in some of the marketing. Nicely located not far from BRS in fact right under the 27 approach path. Its all very well talking about pulling passengers out of LHR onto this route. However LHR has what 4 or more airlines on the same route with a lot of business folks pretty (from my experience) regimented in who they use and looking at the least amount of fuss on getting too and from there destination.
It has been mentioned about milage etc which is a very good point and this relates to my point regarding LHR and people being quite regmented in who they chose to fly with.
marketing maybe the key as the area as sooo much to sell.
Just my 2 pence on it.
brgds
SJD
Its a new route. New routes take time to market themselves.
Most american folks that i deal with in day to day life are i feel quite ignorant in there knowledge of the UK. i usually ask mostly leisure passengers where they have visited etc always the same places.
London, Oxford, Cambridge and sometimes Bath. Now Bath could be a positive place to tap into in some of the marketing. Nicely located not far from BRS in fact right under the 27 approach path. Its all very well talking about pulling passengers out of LHR onto this route. However LHR has what 4 or more airlines on the same route with a lot of business folks pretty (from my experience) regimented in who they use and looking at the least amount of fuss on getting too and from there destination.
It has been mentioned about milage etc which is a very good point and this relates to my point regarding LHR and people being quite regmented in who they chose to fly with.
marketing maybe the key as the area as sooo much to sell.
Just my 2 pence on it.
brgds
SJD
Brunel to Concorde
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virtute et Industria, et Sumorsaete Ealle
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The CO route is becoming a bit of a public relations shambles locally.
On Saturday the Bristol Evening Post carried an article saying that Continental had announced ‘today’ the route would be reduced to five rotations a week for the winter period. Well, as long ago as 23 June GrahamK pointed out on this MB that the CO timetable was showing this reduction. Furthermore, at the time of the route’s launch on 20 May, the ITV West news reporter stated that the route "would not go daily in winter", so he must have been told something by someone in the know.
The Evening Post followed up Saturday’s article with another one today containing interviews with pax waiting to fly out from BRS to EWR yesterday. Some are already ‘regulars’ and speak highly of the route but all say the aircraft are rarely full.
Tony Hallwood of BRS is quoted, “Continental had reserved its right to reduce frequency in the winter.” The Post commented, “ But it will come as a surprise to passengers who have booked to fly to New York or Bristol on Tuesdays or Thursdays during the affected months. They will now be given the chance to fly on other days during the week.”
Well, why wasn’t this made clear before the route commenced? The ITV West man obviously had an inkling. It was announced the BFS route would reduce to five a week in winter even before it commenced, and EDI, which commenced daily last summer with high loads, also went down to five a week last winter (it is now ten a week this summer).
It now looks as if, and this is the Post’s obvious angle, BRS’s reduction is a direct result of disappointing loads since the route started.
A spokesman for Business West concedes that a major problem is getting Americans to use the route.
The only positive bit of news is a quote a couple of weeks ago by Continental’s UK and Ireland Director that the airline is particularly pleased with the support for Business/First.
On Saturday the Bristol Evening Post carried an article saying that Continental had announced ‘today’ the route would be reduced to five rotations a week for the winter period. Well, as long ago as 23 June GrahamK pointed out on this MB that the CO timetable was showing this reduction. Furthermore, at the time of the route’s launch on 20 May, the ITV West news reporter stated that the route "would not go daily in winter", so he must have been told something by someone in the know.
The Evening Post followed up Saturday’s article with another one today containing interviews with pax waiting to fly out from BRS to EWR yesterday. Some are already ‘regulars’ and speak highly of the route but all say the aircraft are rarely full.
Tony Hallwood of BRS is quoted, “Continental had reserved its right to reduce frequency in the winter.” The Post commented, “ But it will come as a surprise to passengers who have booked to fly to New York or Bristol on Tuesdays or Thursdays during the affected months. They will now be given the chance to fly on other days during the week.”
Well, why wasn’t this made clear before the route commenced? The ITV West man obviously had an inkling. It was announced the BFS route would reduce to five a week in winter even before it commenced, and EDI, which commenced daily last summer with high loads, also went down to five a week last winter (it is now ten a week this summer).
It now looks as if, and this is the Post’s obvious angle, BRS’s reduction is a direct result of disappointing loads since the route started.
A spokesman for Business West concedes that a major problem is getting Americans to use the route.
The only positive bit of news is a quote a couple of weeks ago by Continental’s UK and Ireland Director that the airline is particularly pleased with the support for Business/First.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guess there is no point in reintroducing the idea of a winglets 737-700 being tried out on the CO EWR-BRS? You'd get your full load that way, if not the yield?
What ETOPS would be needed for such a flight? 120 mins or 138 mins?
As for long hauling in a 737 Astraeus in the UK used to go direct to Equitoreal Guinea in west Africa and Copa from Panama go all the way directly to Buenos Aires so 7 hour flights are just possible with the little extra for go around and and a nearby alternate?
Better still, combine the CO BRS as a triangle with ORK and keep with the 757! Only joking!
What ETOPS would be needed for such a flight? 120 mins or 138 mins?
As for long hauling in a 737 Astraeus in the UK used to go direct to Equitoreal Guinea in west Africa and Copa from Panama go all the way directly to Buenos Aires so 7 hour flights are just possible with the little extra for go around and and a nearby alternate?
Better still, combine the CO BRS as a triangle with ORK and keep with the 757! Only joking!
Guest
Posts: n/a
I work for S'Air at BRS as a Ramp agent and i see it all at work, load of the aircraft and i know how most routes are doing. Firsty CO is doing very well with a load factor between 70-80% on a daily basis, I did the CO turnround today came inbound wth about 95 bags and went outbound with about 140 bags. There is a rumour of CO opearting 767s on the route, also today after talking to ppl today i did here AA were looking at flying to BRS from Boston on a 757 like MAN. I think for summer 2006 First Choice could do long haul route or Britannia base a 763 for the summer. There's no new rumours about Gulf Air or Emirates. It's very busy at BRS at the mom, and us needing loads more new ground equipement like steps, gpu's and push back trucks.
You would prob not see the CO 757 with winglets at BRS coz co always use stand 2 which is up to 757 size aircraft, but with winglets it would extend on to the interclean road way between the stands. But it could go on stand 27 on whisty like the 767 would on 26S. I think the only CO 767 they would use would be 762 as there 767-400 would be a bit long, but it would land and take off from BRS\'s rwy. The CO aircraft is OTT when it comes to procenures like chocking, wingwalking and and the security around the aircraft. Any one know any new routes for 2006?
You would prob not see the CO 757 with winglets at BRS coz co always use stand 2 which is up to 757 size aircraft, but with winglets it would extend on to the interclean road way between the stands. But it could go on stand 27 on whisty like the 767 would on 26S. I think the only CO 767 they would use would be 762 as there 767-400 would be a bit long, but it would land and take off from BRS\'s rwy. The CO aircraft is OTT when it comes to procenures like chocking, wingwalking and and the security around the aircraft. Any one know any new routes for 2006?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be honest I don't really see a CO 767 at Bristol at all, they lack widebody equipment as it is and I can't see them sending them to Bristol, a new route still proving itself and well within reach of their 752's. I may be wrong but with CO's new China and Indian routes needing the 777's, the 767's will be needed for the routes that the 777's will be taken off.
Mark
Mark
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thats true but the lack of equipement which is a main problem in my job, is slowly going to be improved wth more steps and a new 767 pushback tug. But lack of equipment will not stop airlines opearting wide bodies at BRS coz its the airport that say yes but S'air say no coz they couldnt handle the aircraft i mean they got the stands and most ppl are now High Low trained on the Aer Lingus A320 and Britannia 767 so were getting use to continator aircraft. But BRS dont need load s of wide body planes coz couple more weekly charter serivces on the long haul sector.
If the airport had there way CO would opearte at 777 every saturday as they planned. When the route started on the first day the orginal 757 was tech and they wanted to use to B777 but S'air refused this on the lenght of rwy and the lack ground equipment i.e steps not going to the height of the 777. So they pulled another 757, CO use the same reg's 757 at BRS coz most of them are having the new winglets fitted which could use BRS but not park on stand2.
If the airport had there way CO would opearte at 777 every saturday as they planned. When the route started on the first day the orginal 757 was tech and they wanted to use to B777 but S'air refused this on the lenght of rwy and the lack ground equipment i.e steps not going to the height of the 777. So they pulled another 757, CO use the same reg's 757 at BRS coz most of them are having the new winglets fitted which could use BRS but not park on stand2.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BRISTOL
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe someone on here would like to post a link to this thread on Airliners-net and let the yanks see BRS from an English viewpoint instead of these stupid comments that are coming from their gobs!
Maybe they'll take note that BRS is a very busy airport for its size and one with more potential than any other airport of its size in the UK, also they might realise how convienient it is for both the south west and as a nice alternative to LHR.
As I think MV said a while back, If I was coming to the UK and been flying overnight, i'd find BRS very welcoming and as you come in on 27 approach , banking over the the City of Bath then seeing Bristol to your right and endless fields to your left dotted with lovely little places that surround the Chew Valley and Midsomer Norton areas and walking off the plane to fresh country air, then driving strait out onto the A38 into the Somerset countryside.
Gota be better than coming in over Slough and choking to death in the London smog as you step outside and spending hours trying to find your way out of LHR!
I know what i'd prefer, anybody got a Airliners log-in?
Maybe they'll take note that BRS is a very busy airport for its size and one with more potential than any other airport of its size in the UK, also they might realise how convienient it is for both the south west and as a nice alternative to LHR.
As I think MV said a while back, If I was coming to the UK and been flying overnight, i'd find BRS very welcoming and as you come in on 27 approach , banking over the the City of Bath then seeing Bristol to your right and endless fields to your left dotted with lovely little places that surround the Chew Valley and Midsomer Norton areas and walking off the plane to fresh country air, then driving strait out onto the A38 into the Somerset countryside.
Gota be better than coming in over Slough and choking to death in the London smog as you step outside and spending hours trying to find your way out of LHR!
I know what i'd prefer, anybody got a Airliners log-in?
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Middle england
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Before thinking about Continental 767's isnt it best to establish the 757 first.
A look at Continentals web site shows the web booked seats and these can be compared to the other UK flights.
The worrying thing is that the fares from Bristol seem to be considerably lower than elsewhere on the random dates that I checked and the also the front does not seem to be very full.
Take a look and decide for yourselves.
The viability of BRS and BFS also depends on how it affects the other established routes.
Centre cities
A look at Continentals web site shows the web booked seats and these can be compared to the other UK flights.
The worrying thing is that the fares from Bristol seem to be considerably lower than elsewhere on the random dates that I checked and the also the front does not seem to be very full.
Take a look and decide for yourselves.
The viability of BRS and BFS also depends on how it affects the other established routes.
Centre cities