Oh dear, for all BALPAs bluster it looks like they will be strongly recommending the 2% after all. Oh but we'll keep our leave protection now. Ace.

Interesting
 

My interpretation of the BALPA newsletter is that the company have moved significantly re: scheduling and BALPA are recommending we accept the scheduling changes to resolve that 'failure to agree'.

We still have to negotiate a settlement for pay and the other failure to agree on pensions wasn't it?

I think BALPA are merely saying they are happy with the improvements in scheduling, not the other elements of the claim yet.

DP

Would we be voting if it was just one element? Or is this the whole package?

Despite BALPA's recommendation, if there's no improvement in the offered pay then my wax crayon mark will be going in the NO box.

So am I right in thinking the 'blue sky thinking' will end hereafter should this 'improvement' in the offer from the company goes through? (which is prob just the same with the return of the leave protection as flyingcamel suggested)
What a waste of time, effort and subs if this is the case!
Anything less than RPI from now on gets my 'no'

Good lord lighten up everyone and at least wait till you've heard the proposal! Having said that I'm still at a loss as to why we have to wait another week. Hopefully the company will have learned not to try and big it up with spin. Just give us the facts please.

Maybe as Flybe has made profits when others haven't, they might offer a bonus.
I'd settle for a John Lewis style 18%!!!! :ugh:

I thought we did have a bonus last year. I can't recall the figure off the top of my head, there is a percentage versus profit posted in the crew rooms around the bases. Yes, John Lewis have done very well and 18% or 9 weeks of pay, will go down well, and good on John Lewis, but we are two different industries. People have to buy, but they don't have to fly. Just a thought.

John Lewis is a highly respected employer!

They have to buy what Lord Molton Brown? Last I heard John Lewis didn't sell food (excluding Waitrose).

John Lewis has a food hall - at least here in civilisation they do...

Well regardless, I still can't afford to shop in Waitrose. Oh and the budget is imminent. I just hope back pay is going to be enough to stem the flow for a while. Maybe I'll even be able to afford a nice new shirt and shoes for all those interviews at the end of the year...........

Wishful thinking?

Regrettably as a year 4 F/O, I fall very much into the Netto demographic.

The point I seek to make, is that John Lewis purposefully shares the wealth and consequently enjoys an exceptionally stable workforce. I'm not suggesting we become some sort of East German workers' collective, we will also have shareholders to answer to, but is it too much to ask that we aspire to some workforce satisfaction?

The only way this workforce is going to get any satisfaction is to fight for it. Our leaders are not in the same ballpark as John Lewis.

Like others here if it's anything less than RPI it will be a NO from me.

Very different Management style
 

Flybe's mean spirited management are not even remotely similar to John Lewis

John Lewis Mgt
Pay their staff above market rate for the job
Share the profits of the business with them in generous bonuses

Flybe Mgt
Pay themselves more than the Executives at Major global airlines
Pay pilots significantly below market rate for the job
Share the profits of the business amongst only the top few executives
Offer pilots weekends half the length of other comparable low cost carriers (2 days late to early versus 4 days)

As others have said 81% of the BALPA members in Flybe are no longer prepared to accept this.

Having worked as both c/c for flybe and having been a partner in John Lewis, the two companies are POLES apart! On the whole, partners in JLP enjoying going to work as they are respected as valued members of the business, not just as meagre employees. Their thoughts, suggestions and ideas are encouraged. Their management believe in developing people and nuturing their skills and the ways they can help grow the business.

My recollection of offering any of the above to flybe 'management' met a brick wall. Flybe only want people who will do as they are told and if market comparison is anything to go by, for less than many of the other airlines out there.

Conditions are tough and times are hard and yes 'we should be grateful to have a job' at the end of the day but my happy memories of flybe lie tarnished by a company management that as Desk-Pilot says are more concerned with their own development and not that of the hard working flight deck, cabin crew and ground staff that turn up day after day after day and work hard to help build the airline into what it has become.

I hope you guys and gals manage to get what you're all after!!

Flybe have only kept my services for the foreseeable thanks to Virgin specifying Airbus or Boeing experience.
Let's see what BA have to say about it!

I say again!!! John Lewis is a respected employer!!!! Different world ;)

Dear Jim,

Please could you fix it for me to be able to no longer live hand to mouth and be able to see my friends and family more than once every two to three months. Please don't discard this letter out of your Aston Martin's window.

Yours

All Flybe FOs.

I never had any joy from Jimmy Savile either.

And we don't even want a medal!

Dear Jim,

Please could you fix it for me to be able to no longer live hand to mouth and be able to see my friends and family more than once every two to three months. Please don't discard this letter out of your Aston Martin's or Audi R8's window.

Yours

All Flybe FOs.

Flybe is turning into a first class joke of a company!!
- rosters delayed until next week.
- extra public holiday in April being used as a bargaining chip in the pay talks
- pay talks that are STILL running from April 2010.
- changing scheduling agreements as part of pay talks
- thats without doing your daily duties with numerous tech dashes and crewing trying to change the rules as they go.
- management that obviously don't give a sh@t abOut the employees, just counting down the days until they can cash in their share options and retire on millions while the rest of us struggle!!

I have work for and with several different airlines and no one else has this to start with, let alone have to try and fight against it all the time!

I just join the ranks of all the others that have quite simply had enough!!

BALPA are about as useful as soggy kit Kat!!!!

Rant over!!! :*

Anybody know why rosters delayed??
 

Anybody know why rosters delayed??

DP

Certain Athens-based crew have also not been paid allowances on their due date for the 2nd time running. Unfortunately no one answers the phones in flight ops admin after 1630.

Rant over :mad:

DONT PANIC!!!! Its ok the latest email indicates we (Well Jim) has won yet another award no ones heard of! Uncle Jim is quoted as saying his very proud and has the best management team in the industry!

Anyone taking odds on the next ballots result?? Im in for a 90% turnout and 85% NO, although reserve the right to adjust the figures when the latest deal is on the table, or subject to operational disruption ;)

Burpbot, I fear some of our LHS brethren may be swayed by the rostering offer.

I hear a rumble in the jungle that something is in the pipeline with regards to the delayed rosters...

No more lates to earlies...? 5/4 roster? Were all on 175 ratings... What is it?!

SmilingKnifed - keep the faith, only the blinkered self minority LHS are likely to do that. The majority will look to the whole on this, IMHO

Late rosters = what happens soon = switch to summer programme, always a good excuse for a late roster when your dealing with Commercial Departments...:\

I'm too am afraid it might go through, just like the last one 3yrs ago... The one which cut us out of the profit sharing scheme!!
Shine a light!

Perhaps the 'strong backing' of the CC re the 'offer' is due to the fact it will align us with the new cabin crew agreement? It would clear up the smoke and mirrors crewing pull to weasel out of giving a DP or ME or extend you, claiming you have no choice of refusing the extention. I seriously doubt the comany would budge on pay till a few hours from planned walkout. its their modus operandi.

Just because the cc have recommended you accept the offer doesn't necessarily mean that they actually want you to accept. A NO would send them back to the negotiations in a much stronger position

Fair play to the union for pushing for sizable movement since the 'final' offer. I am really hoping it reads well when it hits the mat at Chez Lovejoy.

HOWEVER... Have we not missed an opportunity here? The company will shortly have to publish it's first set of financial information as a publicly listed company. No more fluffy figures, no longer can they hide the profits we all know we make, and no longer can they pull cash out of the business without shareholder say so.

Once these details are out, we will know exactly where the company stands, and how we have been doing. With no smoke and mirrors.

This proposed offer is to be published, balleted, and finalized just prior to publication of the end of year report. Is this sensible?

We have waited patiently till now, what's another month to make sure we aren't getting the wrong deal

Well from the rumours i've heard the pay side of the agreement will be staying the same. If thats the case then it'll be a no from me regardless of how much better the scheduling agreement is.

This has gone on for so long we all need to stick together and hold out for the deal we deserve. Do we really want to go through the same thing in another 3 years? We have the company where we want them, so lets make the most of it and sort it out now.

Don't take it so personally. If you don't like the offer vote NO. If there is no pay improvement I will be voting a big fat NO regardless of anything to do with rostering.

BALPA are only as strong as we make them and if everyone resigns en masse and it sneaks through then that is not going to give them a mandate to ever go and get more which is what it would take for me to vote yes.

My main worry is the comfortable skippers voting yes and leaving the rest of us high and dry :sad:

BA and Virgin have stemmed the flow of Flybe pilots resigning simply by including the type rating requirement on their recruitment...

Almost time to find out what the 'significant movement' is which the CC talk of... Bring it on!

I thought the 'significant movement' was that everybody was allegedly leaving.

Seems that was just wishful thinking too.

And how, if everyone was leaving, would that benefit us. Having a large number of PO'd FO's is a good thing at the moment, they're the work group with the least personally invested as under normal circumstances they'd be off like a shot. I can't blame them for that but because they are still here they are a group of considerable strength

So the company sends back another offer, what thoughts from everyone?

seems like the preamble regarding very limited comments on pay, does not resemble the thoughts of a lot of the F/O's in the company.

Sorry but the NEW offer get's a BIG fat NO from me !!!, sorry but I need to be able to afford to live. It's allright for some of those cosy captains sat at the top of seniority or training Capt's on £60-£70k, and all they want is a improvment in lifestyle but for F/O's this offer is just a joke, we need to be able to live as well as having a improvment in lifestyle.