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Industrial Action at Flybe?

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Industrial Action at Flybe?

Old 16th Aug 2010, 11:18
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Industrial Action at Flybe?

I heard a rumour that things are hotting up and there have been some confrontations between BALPA and Flybe. BALPA have apparently started canvassing opinions amongst pilots.

Anyone care to comment?
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 11:41
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BALPA
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 11:58
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BALPA has sent out an update on negotiations along with a questionaire!

"failiure to agree" has been registerd with Flybe management over both pay and new rostering agreement, much dissatisfaction with new pensions policey also!!

Pay - pay freeze last year, BALPA requested 5-6%, Flybe offered 2% pay rise to include annual increment so now only a 0.3% rise or a combined prop/jet salary with the top 4 years nocked off!!

Rostering - to stop the late finish and early start problem that is grinding people down, BALPA scheduling experts spent months recently running new rosters to abolish this problem. At the last dry run management stepped in and just said no!

Pensions - new smart pensions to make savings and tax savings for both Flybe and employee. However Flybe wish to keep the savings made by both company and employee end!!

These are the facts as i see them, stand to be corrected!!
BALPA have asked members opinions and do they have member support for more measures!!

There was a post on "Flybe t&c" thread here that said "if Flybe gave its pilots 2 more days off a month,doubled duty pay and a 10 grand pay rise they would then be at the bottom of the average for the industry"!!

Yes - greatful to be employed, but Flybe is no longer a regional from the channel islands, it is a major european carrier and the employees seem to have recognised this faster than management who just drag their heels!
subsequently most people (pilots and cabin crew) i speak to are looking and appyling else where.
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 13:58
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Id say most are talking about looking for work elsewhere, but thats as far as it goes. As much as people whinge about crappy T&Cs, not many actually vote with their FEET!
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 14:12
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On the contrary, people will vote with their feet and bugger off, problem is they just won't stand together!
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 14:40
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Serenity,

Just to correct you on the SMART pensions. Flybe have offered to share the company savings (employees keep theirs anyway), but just not a big enough slice to be given to the pilots for BALPA's liking. It took a bit of persuasion by all accounts, but that is the current state of affairs.

As far as the combined prop/jet payscales, only an issue for captains (as is usual with BALPA's negotiations) as there are very, very few 9yr FOs knocking around the company and if the doom merchants are correct, that is unlikley to change. In fact, they would also have you believe it shouldn't be an issue for skippers either as everybody is leaving apparently.
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 15:47
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Flybe have offered to share the company savings (employees keep theirs anyway), but just not a big enough slice to be given to the pilots for BALPA's liking. It took a bit of persuasion by all accounts, but that is the current state of affairs.
Indeed. Flybe want to share 50% of the employer savings out equally amongst ALL employees. BALPA's point is that as the pilots generate a huge slice of the employer savings figure due to our higher pension membership and higher salary contributions. Hence, we should see a higher % share of the savings that reflects this. Pretty fair I think.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 07:52
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Pilots generally will complain about Ts & Cs, and in the case of Fly BE the complaints would seem justified. You may well be warming up your escape plans, but It appears to me that there aren't many places to go, and that most of the places to go are probably in the Middle East at the nearest, and the number of people who are willing and able to make that move will be limited so maybe it is time for pilots to show a bit of solidarity and community spirit (The BIg Society idea perhaps) and provide a bit of resistance to the company policy. You pay a fee to BAPLA to be a member so why not get a bit of value from it instead of reading the Log, and then moving off somewhere else.

Just to put this into context I have been out of work for about 18 months having been made redundant from a low cost airline and really hope to get back into an aeroplane soon (as a pilot). Fly BE is looking like one of the very few that might be able to offer me a job, and I would like it to be a decent offer seeing as I will probably be bonded for 3 years or so before I can make another move if necessary.

Even if you are hoping to move off to another airline or another country you owe to yourselves to make an effort to improve Fly BE's Ts & Cs: your escape plan may not come to fruition as soon as you expect so why not make the place you're at a bit better for your self before you move on and improve your career?

I maintain that airlines like Fly BE have two types of pilots: those with escape plans, and liars! Good luck to all of you in your efforts to get a better place to work be it improving Fly BE or moving elsewhere.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 12:21
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Pilots striking will not be supported by the UK travelling public, and that is a lot of public in FlyBe terms - "Pickets In Porsches" will be headlines - regardless of what you earn at FlyBe, your earning potential is far greater than the average UK worker...

It's a crackin' UK product and service, I hope for those whose lifestyle it suits get this sorted...I laugh at UK companies now who have a mission statement these days that staff are their number 1 asset - what a joke...
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 13:14
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Pilots striking will not be supported by the UK travelling public, and that is a lot of public in FlyBe terms - "Pickets In Porsches" will be headlines - regardless of what you earn at FlyBe, your earning potential is far greater than the average UK worker...
Public support is irrelevant in terms of industrial relations. It shouldn't even be a factor when it is time to decide to walk out or not. Of course it would be unpopular, how could it be otherwise?
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 14:55
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Left flybe a couple of years ago.

I genuinely mean it when I say my blood pressure is sooooo much better for doing so. I dont earn a humongous amount now, but at least me and the future Mrs CB can afford to eat out a few times a month, take a couple of holidays a year and not worry about the cars MOT bill.

I have many great memories but acromony in the flight deck towards Exeter management was as tangible then as I'm told it is now - albeit we were pissing and moaning about other stuff back in 08.

Exeter have to-date hedged their bets (and lets face it have been proved correct thus far) on the pilot workforces inability to mobilise and respond with a collective voice.

Answer the question: Who is to blame for the above (underlined)

CB
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 19:23
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Royston Vassey

You're presuming everyone wants to fly longhaul and live abroad. Sorry, but your lifestyle doesn't appeal to me I'm afraid.

I'll be the first in the queue to back BALPA should it come to it, but I'm afraid the actual job isn't what's p*ssing off people. It's actually quite good fun
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 22:19
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Serenity
The easiest way to stop the early / late issue is to get a variation that allows more than 3 earlies on the bounce (with subsequent days off afterwards). Why dont Flybe look at that?
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Old 18th Aug 2010, 00:33
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Backbone

I agree with much of the above and feel now is the time for BALPA members to show some backbone to support BALPA negotiations. If that fails then as we all know there are other options to force management to the negotiating table. I would suggest that the prospect of a strike in Flybe at a time when they are seeking to list the company is the last thing management want and that will provide additional leverage to aid BALPA's cause.

The most important thing right now is to stand firm and finally make this airline a place people might actually want to stay. There are few alternatives to run to at present, although I suspect that may change in the next 2 years...

Desk-pilot
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Old 18th Aug 2010, 20:19
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but I'm afraid the actual job isn't what's p*ssing off people. It's actually quite good fun


There are many of us at FlyBE who love the flying and living out in the regions, and hope to continue until retirement. I spent the first 20yrs of my career spending long hours airborne, and have had the unfortunate pleasure of sand between my toes - I have no desire for either again. All I ask for is the same pay deal the rest of the company got, a long-term aspirational payscale, and a better realised scheduling agreement. I sincerely hope that BALPA and management can reach a compromise quickly as both are currently making unreasonable demands and I detect a hardening of attitudes that wont help either side in the long run.
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Old 19th Aug 2010, 08:46
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Sort out the roster first! It is the main reason I left, the money was the second.

If the roster got sorted out, I would go back. I loved the flying and the people.
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Old 19th Aug 2010, 19:46
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Good lifestyle or Good money, either is an enticement for staff retention, but if neither improve then it is a recipe for exodus at first opportunity for most.
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Old 25th Aug 2010, 17:33
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From a point two months ago where the company announced to the CC that the late finish-early start is an integral part of the business model we are now told it is something they are committed to making movement on with the union.

Is this the same sort of commitment they made four years ago but failed to deliver on?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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Old 25th Aug 2010, 18:50
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That 0.3% aside the newsletter was the most obvious example of divide and conquer that this company has ever produced.

They also imply that the Dash pilots chance of getting on the jet are slim to none. However, you can have a common payscale which will benefit only the Dash fleet.

Did you Dash guys find that motivational?!
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Old 25th Aug 2010, 19:05
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"exodus at first opportunity for most."
Not exactly a rush for the door, then?
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