I don't know who 'Leg' is or whether he is based at INV, but I take offence at the dig at INV crew.
I AM INV based, Q400 Captain (so that narrows it down to 5). Lets compare rosters MR 195 skipper, cushy? Not here.
As for closing 'pointless bases', so much for supporting other crew.
I will tell that to my two children under 3, who would suffer major upset were that to happen.
Put your vote in and then chill. The majority will win, that's democracy. In the meantime keep beating the doors at BA, I'll take your job.

I'm afraid that will only happen if I take another 500 people with me :p

Some of the rantings in this thread are pathetic and I think probably a side effect of the lack of professionalism displayed by the operator on a daily basis especially when dealing with its pilots.

Anyway I have the following info from a reliable source down in EXT:

All 175 after 2012 to go to Flybe Nordic, this is as there is no room for expansion in the uk and the jet simply cant compete with the dash for cost on short secx i.e. SOU - GUR, BHD - GLA etc especially with the low low load factor average 63% (poor compared with almost every other airline)

Flybe UK will maybe get some ATR's with pilots transferred on to this type with a new payscale for any new joiners circa £41k cpt half that for FO. The company has hundreds of applications ready to process to counteract the coming exodus.

Another one which I partly agree with: PBM's to be gotten rid of as they cost alot of money and basically do nothing of any value, they will be replaced with a base administrator i.e. a pregnant crew member

Interesting times ahead I think. Hopefully the YES vote will prevail (my opinion only)

Added to the above,

All Dashes to go by 2020
Target UK fleet ratio 50:50 Jet:TP

Not sure BALPA will allow the pay cut for Cpt transferring to the ATR though!

I think @assymetricdrift is right, I was looking at flights recently MAN to BRU and only reluctantly chose Flybe. Brussels Airlines tickets on the RJ85's were £150pp more, but I was prepared to pay it, but ultimately settled for a Fybe dash with a 15 min slower flight time.

Haha willing to pay GBP150 extra to fly on an aircraft that is known to poison its passengers and crew.. Not me: give me a dash anyday :) Just the luggage space is cr@p..

Sorry for the thread drift... :p

Of course the mangement are prepared to lower the bar - they're likely to have just been given a mandate from the pilots to continue trampling our Ts & Cs into the dirt. That's what happens when you vote "yes" to a bad deal at a time when you had a strong bargaining position. :ugh:

All this talk of making a batter deal in 18 months - utter tosh. You had a golden opportunity to do that now. EZ, RYR and BA/IAG have all reported a massive upswing in profitability and pax numbers this year, but so many of you fell for the guff that your future has to be based on last year's results. If Flybe don't show results that follow that same trend this year, then I'm pretty sure the shareholders will be showing Jim how the exit works.

And Flybe Nordic? Well, let me predict now, that Flybe UK payscales will be totally separate and any improvements based on UK business performance. Nordic - and any other additional European spin-offs - will be managed separately to the UK business and their performance will not be considered by the UK management in negotiating UK salaries. So anyone holding out hope that the European expansion will miraculously lead to better UK salaries is most likley to be sorely disappointed.

But if you voted "yes", then you brought it on your own head.

All 175's after 2012 to FlyBE Nordic, give me a break. JF by his own admission can't wait to get rid of as many of the 8s as possible.

78%-22% Yes, SA still has holes you could drive a crew sandwich though but the Joint Committee will allow for adjustments which weren't possible under the old T&Cs. Congrats to the CC for all the work they've put in

well thats that then!

There won't be any "love in"! We had to take the company to the edge of the abyss before they then, kicking and screaming, came up with the very bare minimum of an acceptable offer, much of which was already promised us before. People have long memories, and the vote result reflects the proportion of pilots who are actively looking to leaving soon, hopefully now the BA logjam has been cleared and opportunities open up elsewhere.

I only voted yes as i didn't feel it was bad enough to justify striking over it. But as a package dressed up with a pink ribbon emblazoned with some syrupy words from JF representing a "new Dawn"? I don't think so.

Btw, who knew that we won't start to get our "long" 60 hr weekends (i say again, paid for in negotiations 3 years ago) until NOVEMBER??? :=

Now that the threat of industrial action is over, I wonder how long it will be till the big announcement!

If you were daft enough to vote YES then you now have NO right to moan about Pay or Scheduling.

November introduction of revised SA was in BALPA/CC newsletter early July with jims revised pay offer. Rosterers work three months ahead so Nov makes sense.

Personally I would worry more about backpay being taxed at this years rates??:confused:

What big announcement?? :ooh:

C'mon, you know, the BIG announcement!

It's something to do with the big picture being upgraded from a Picasso to a Salvador Dali I guess?

http://www.arthistoryguide.com/images/199.jpg

Only yourselves to blame
 

You get what you voted for folks, don't moan on here when you're permanently doing 6 on 3 off for below industry standard pay. As for a 50/50 fleet, what a load of tosh. Nordic will be as big, if not bigger than the UK operation witin 3 yrs, and guess were all your shiny jets and jet pay will go. The Q400 will NEVER fly for Noridc, and wether it's 8's or ATR's. it'll be TP's and TP salaries for all, no question.

More like wax crayon and bits of glued on macaroni

Give over Toastal. 6 on 3 off could never work all the time in practice, they'd end up giving us more days off in a month - which, as they've already stated is something they are not prepared to budge on.

To maintain the majority of Q400's in the UK, or dare I say it, downgrade the UK operation towards ATR's is also unlikely to happen. There will be a shift towards a 50/50 split. There has to be. The UK operation isn't just going to stagnate and taper off into the sunset. There's a new focus with the Nordic operation, yes, but not at the expense of the UK one.

The commericial dept have already put forward the need for Jets in the UK at bases like BHX and MAN. It's already formed the bidding process for this current bid and as you well know, there are several bods already trained up and ready to go... when they get here.

You think Flybe are gonna say, "Right, we've got 'em. Pull the Jets out of the UK, let's give 'em to our Nordic friends and give that go-ahead for the ATR's." Spare me.

If they do Toastal, I'll eat my epaulettes.

would you like chili or barbecue sauce with them:D

ATRs At BE from an ATR pilot's perspective:
 

Now if you had asked me two years ago I would say it would be unlikely BE would ever get ATRs given how geared the airline is to the Dash, but being an ATR pilot I have been to ATR at TLS recently for my Sim check and I can tell you now that people from BE were there at ATR's Sim-base looking round!:eek:

Given the fact that ATRs are a lot cheaper to run and maybe a bit more reliable than the Q400 while only having 6 less seats that, let's face it, BE don't seem to fill most of the time anyway, IF BE did not have so many Q4s it would make even more sense.

Problem is this, ATR can't build the new 600 fast enough or train flightcrew quick enough! Orders have been rolling in as Airlines in the east can't get enough of them and Q4s just don't make sense unless you have sectors that are very, very long.

The net effect is if BE think they can get people like me to work for £41k Capt / £21K FO (as someone suggested) then they must be joking! Why would I do that when I can get $8200 to $10,000 pm tax free in the far east, more when China gets ATRs and even a FO can get $6500 pm and GR pay @£3100 pm after tax minimum for an ATR Capt! There Just isn't a significant enough difference between the ATR and a Q4 to warrant the difference in pay.

Really I wish all my friends at BE all the best and hope things pick up soon. .....:E

Why wouldn't "people" from FlyBE be looking round an ATR sim, they own an airline that flies ATRs. Were these people identified as FlyBE Europe or FlyBE UK, there is a difference

Always nice to come back from leave to discover you've been signed up to a honking load of old ..... Until 2016! Used my vote, alas not good enough. Hey ho, best keep head down, bottom in the air, love beads and toilet roll in the fridge.

At least I got that application done whilst on a beach ;-)

Retreats with fingers elevated, facing Exeter.

FlyingCamel, out of interest what exactly would have made you happy?

Also, would you have been willing to strike with that last offer on the table? Could you justify striking with a 7.3% pay rise on offer? I think not.

But your opinion is symptomatic of the recent company culture, there are plenty of us who feel bitter and twisted by the management tactics, the underhanded way in which this was sold to us in its original form.

The company have an uphill struggle to repair the relationship. We have a duty to remember how the last 18 months played out, and to make sure we don't walk that path again.

In the meantime, good luck with BA. This was obviously never the job for you

Very easily said from the Ejet SFO scale lovejoy.

My vote actually would have been a yes, had scheduling not been a five year deal. I believe there's not enough improvement to merit signing up for five years of 'very little change.' An expiry of April 2013 on the new SA with a commitment to start negotiations sometime IN 2012 would have been closer to the mark. After all the aim is to improve things for us in the short term as well as for the joiners in 2020. I want a fair deal as well!

I have witnessed what this current scheduling agreement and company culture have done to young enthusiastic SFOs once they reach the LHS. I now know a hefty crop of young, jaded, overworked, pissed off Captains.

You're welcome to your opinion, the rest of the membership are entitled to theirs, and I'm certainly entitled to mine.

:ok:

PS it isn't the job for me with this SA. Neither should it be anyone's, and that's my point. Enjoy that Dash command when it comes, just remember it's always at a price.

Well thats the whole pay talk thing over with for the time being,
and the right decision was made, with the overwhelming Yes vote
that's a secure mandate to move forward. But no resting on laurels,
I for one will be looking to the CC for a marked improvement in 18
months time.

With the economy slowing, looks like alot of people will be staying
with us for some time, lets all try to pull together and ensure the
company does well and then we will deserve and indeed demand
a better deal in the future. Good luck to those who get into
BA, there are some switched on people in this company and
good luck to them wherever they end up.

On a different matter, the situation with Sharesave is poor. This
type of thing makes HR look bad, if they can look any worse than
the loosers they already are. When is this company going to
wake up to inept HR?

How long now for boywonder after his huge, expensive Ejet cock up? :mad:

I have to agree regarding the Sharesave scheme. It's badly thought out and quite clearly, dreadfully implemented.

On paper, like most things, it was a no-brainer. An excellent opportunity to invest our own money in our company, and reap the rewards, as Jim so cleverly put it, allowing employees to benefit from the success of the business.

Hmmm.

Seems only management and directors are allowed to invest more than a round of drinks! O well I guess its the promised caring sharing new era of relations promised if we were good and conned into voting yes! Be interesting to see how the shares in vaseline go towards the end of November ;)

How's it all going then?

Rumour is the cabin crew are heading towards work to rule - good for them!

Long overdue. Give the Cabin Services management a taste of their own medicine - petty implementation of the small print in every policy & procedure.

Balpa will have to show resolve to ensure the agreed deal is honoured, interesting times from now until April to see what transpires. Thought the pay deal was a 'done deal' just goes to show, nothing is ever set in stone. :\

Note cabin crew NOT flight deck! BALPA have nothing to do with it, you need to look to UNITE instead.

Aaah I see what you're getting at. Apparently 0% doesn't apply to flight deck and we'll still get our 5.5%.

Balpa are being asked to think of the viability of the business and agree to 0% for the this year, many f/o's need the increase so this will be unpopular.

Looks like a categorical no from BALPA and so it should, most firm they've stood in a while!

We'll see. All the brave words spoken about nailing the directors to the floor this year for pay negotiations as justification for caving in like a paper bag last time. Time to show whether you have a backbone then or not BALPA, or if you'll roll over and play nice for Jim like you always do.

My goodwill has reduced by 99.9% this last year, and I couldn't care less how desperate Jim and his cronies are for my help to dig them out the ****. Not taking a pay rise or bonus? Wow! What a commitment. How about you take a pay cut Jim that adequately reflects how badly Flybe have underperformed the UK economy, the transport sector, the UK scheduled airline industry and the woeful performance of the Flybe share price? Something tells me that the cosy little mutual back-scratching deal the board have with the non-executive directors will still see them all go home to bed as rich men.

Sympathy? Yep, I'm sure you know where to find it in the dictionary.

I can't help but get the feeling that as a company, our eye has been off the ball in the UK while Nordic is launched.

Obviously this doesn't apply to the operational guys and gals and more to the decorational staff at board level. I don't think our product is as eye catching or our prices competitive enough. Sadly at my base, the loads seem to reflect this (and it's downright depressing seeing 150 punters boarding the EZY, going to the same destination).