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Old 5th Oct 2023, 22:37
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Hi all,

​​​​​​having gone through the thread, the last 2 phases sim/final interview not much to go on unfortunately. Would anyone mind to share some feedback who've done it recently and passed? Pm if needed.

Thanks in advance. Goodluck to all going through to the final stages. Rgds M_1
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Old 6th Oct 2023, 07:28
  #362 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by numichem
Hello everyone,

Does anybody have the latest salary and/or earning figures for VA SFOs in 2023? Also, I hear that the command line is very long there >5years. Can anyone with the inside knowledge share what procedures the company has for SFOs upgrade?

Cheers,
Salary is as quoted earlier in the thread. The current pay deal runs out at the end of the year so the CC should start negotiating the next one soon. Once they’ve dealt with the indicative ballot of fatigue with the company of course.

Current SFOs are having their interview at the 8 year mark with a course sometime next year, however the norm is 10-14 years and not what people are being told by Zenon.

Current upgrade process is a Sim and an interview once signed off as capable by the command review board.

Last edited by Rhodes13; 6th Oct 2023 at 08:18.
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Old 8th Oct 2023, 21:14
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Originally Posted by Rhodes13
Salary is as quoted earlier in the thread. The current pay deal runs out at the end of the year so the CC should start negotiating the next one soon. Once they’ve dealt with the indicative ballot of fatigue with the company of course.

Current SFOs are having their interview at the 8 year mark with a course sometime next year, however the norm is 10-14 years and not what people are being told by Zenon.

Current upgrade process is a Sim and an interview once signed off as capable by the command review board.
Thanks for the insight. I guess, it all comes down to the numbers' evaluation on earning vs lifestyle which is something very personal.

Yeah, that kind of a line is very dreary to see, especially when you have many places that offer fast track command upgrade or the alike and you know you're gonna earn much less than you could elsewhere, if you stick to SFO at VA for years to come. But what's is it that determines your years before you're on the list for a command. is it the seniority among SFOs only or all RHS holders including Juniors and FOs?

Safe landings,
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Old 8th Oct 2023, 21:58
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Originally Posted by numichem
Thanks for the insight. I guess, it all comes down to the numbers' evaluation on earning vs lifestyle which is something very personal.

Yeah, that kind of a line is very dreary to see, especially when you have many places that offer fast track command upgrade or the alike and you know you're gonna earn much less than you could elsewhere, if you stick to SFO at VA for years to come. But what's is it that determines your years before you're on the list for a command. is it the seniority among SFOs only or all RHS holders including Juniors and FOs?

Safe landings,
Command eligibility is determined on hours (can't remember the exact number but not that high without reading the books) and global seniority. When your number comes up your file goes before the CRB for them to review, they look at all aspects of your time in Virgin, conduct sims etc. If it's passed you get an offer of an Interview/ Sim. Once you pass that you're put into the command holding pool and will be assigned a course when they are available.
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Old 8th Oct 2023, 22:16
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Originally Posted by Rhodes13
Command eligibility is determined on hours (can't remember the exact number but not that high without reading the books) and global seniority. When your number comes up your file goes before the CRB for them to review, they look at all aspects of your time in Virgin, conduct sims etc. If it's passed you get an offer of an Interview/ Sim. Once you pass that you're put into the command holding pool and will be assigned a course when they are available.
Thank you again, mate. It's always good to have first hand info. Much appreciated.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 15:21
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Originally Posted by 737 Jockey
I appreciate there’s reciprocal traffic, but definitely a few VA guys left for Jet2 recently, citing fatigue/lifestyle and company attitude as the main issues. Some even within a year of command. Says it all really.
Absolutely. There is a fair number with offers and applications in elsewhere owing to the ridiculous rosters amongst other things.
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Old 20th Oct 2023, 22:51
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Originally Posted by Bosworth
Absolutely. There is a fair number with offers and applications in elsewhere owing to the ridiculous rosters amongst other things.
how bad are the rosters? And what are the ‘other things’?
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 20:29
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VS were doing more second officer interviews again last few weeks. Apparently previous offers made and candidates decided against joining nearer the time of courses for better positions elsewhere as First Officers.

Are they still not giving them the full type rating on the license and not doing the ZFTT sim, until they have done 2 years?

Not exactly a good deal, if another pandemic occurs for those not unrestricted and unable to fly elsewhere the type Virgin offer them.

Better off going to a short haul airline than VS in the U.K, like Easy or Jet 2.
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Old 27th Oct 2023, 10:23
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Originally Posted by turbine100
VS were doing more second officer interviews again last few weeks. Apparently previous offers made and candidates decided against joining nearer the time of courses for better positions elsewhere as First Officers.

Are they still not giving them the full type rating on the license and not doing the ZFTT sim, until they have done 2 years?

Not exactly a good deal, if another pandemic occurs for those not unrestricted and unable to fly elsewhere the type Virgin offer them.

Better off going to a short haul airline than VS in the U.K, like Easy or Jet 2.
Not sure what your definition of a good deal is, but a unemployed ex-Flybe pilot in their early-mid twenties with 300hrs total time and a next to useless type rating earning £63k to be cruise relief pilot for 2 years with the prospect of long haul command in their early-mid 30s sounds alright to me.
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Old 27th Oct 2023, 13:32
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Originally Posted by pudoc
Not sure what your definition of a good deal is, but a unemployed ex-Flybe pilot in their early-mid twenties with 300hrs total time and a next to useless type rating earning £63k to be cruise relief pilot for 2 years with the prospect of long haul command in their early-mid 30s sounds alright to me.
If the company has survived one of its many moments of closing its doors which happen with regular monotony, or you’re not laid off due to being on the wrong fleet of which you have no choice in…..
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Old 27th Oct 2023, 13:52
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Originally Posted by Rhodes13
If the company has survived one of its many moments of closing its doors which happen with regular monotony, or you’re not laid off due to being on the wrong fleet of which you have no choice in…..
2001 9/11

2008 financial downturn

2020 covid

Did I miss any? Regular-ish I suppose. Though Flybe, Monarch, XL, Thomas Cook, bmi all disappeared *completely’ in the same timeframe. I know where I’d rather have been.

SOs get a full type rating but unsure about ZFTT. Moving to a new company would require OCC and TRI for first 4 landings anyway, if ZFTT, so not sure why the TR wouldn’t be portable. Seems to allow pilots to fly LH that otherwise wouldn’t be looked at due low hours/previous types underweight.

VS vs Jet2/EZY? Apples & oranges - no-one joins a LH airline because they want to do 20 sectors a week to Spain and back.
I’ve done both - Jetlag sucks but more days off at home and better roster stability at VS, than ever at previous SH lot. The fact that many are still unhappy with lifestyle is providing pressure for things to get closer to pre-covid Ts&Cs. It won’t be overnight but it is improving.

And if anyone thinks seniority would be respected at *any* airline if the s*** really hit the fan, they are sorely deluded. Its a method for fighting over leave, command etc. What’s the *written* redundancy policy at EZY??? 😝
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Old 27th Oct 2023, 15:01
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My definition of a good deal is working for a company that give a full type rating and allow you to log hours, which support getting a job. Rather than restricting someone to a cruise pilot without ZFT. If Virgin were to close or lay staff off, like Flybe. It would be quite difficult within that 2 year period to fly a 787 or A350 in another airline without getting ZFT qualified and having 500 hours on the type logged that are not cruise relief.

Therefore other companies who have been recruiting, including a number that did advertise for non rated Airbus / Boeing, look a much better long term prospect. The command in Virgin use to be a long time, now perhaps 7 years for those already SFO's in Virgin who spent the first two years logging hours that work towards command. This could quickly change in the future.

When taking into account the leasing debts, shareholder loans etc. Virgin has around 3.1 billion of financial debts which are higher than its assets. Virgin last made a pre tax profit around 2016. Just to pay back shareholder loans, they will need to generate a consistent profit for a period 10 - 15 years. So now they are trying to keep cash in the business, have a general hiring freeze with exceptions of crew as they need to try and grow new routes to generate revenues to service their debt reduction.

Virgin have had a past history of not always delivering upon promises and quickly removing pilots from the business during difficult times. As mentioned here in this forum.
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Old 28th Oct 2023, 04:34
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Originally Posted by pudoc
Not sure what your definition of a good deal is, but a unemployed ex-Flybe pilot in their early-mid twenties with 300hrs total time and a next to useless type rating earning £63k to be cruise relief pilot for 2 years with the prospect of long haul command in their early-mid 30s sounds alright to me.
I guess it depends how desperate you are for LH ? You still have age on your side so could go to Virgin and if they throw you out in a few years then who cares. BUT as another poster has mentioned having a 350/330/787 type rating isn’t actually that good for job prospects compared to say a 737/320 especially if you are cruise relief !
BA could be a better option at your age ? Or if you want the cash jet2 ?
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Old 1st Dec 2023, 22:53
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can anybody provide more info about aptitude tests and simulator/technical assessments?
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Old 2nd Dec 2023, 08:44
  #375 (permalink)  
 
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Hi, any info on current conditions, mood and rosters post pay increase?

Thanks,
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Old 3rd Dec 2023, 14:33
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They have raised the pay as they are worried about new junior pilots leaving within the first few years...... That should speak volumes to anyone considering the mood within VAA.
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Old 3rd Dec 2023, 15:57
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Originally Posted by Speedbrakes Up
They have raised the pay as they are worried about new junior pilots leaving within the first few years...... That should speak volumes to anyone considering the mood within VAA.
Any info on what this rise in pay actually is?
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Old 3rd Dec 2023, 17:32
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No no idea sorry.
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Old 3rd Dec 2023, 18:03
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Originally Posted by MachBrum
Any info on what this rise in pay actually is?
10-15% depending on rank. As with everything, the reason for it is more convoluted and nuanced than what is posted on prune, but largely cadets have been taken advantage of for a long time and FO scales aren’t keeping up with competition, so the speed tape has been applied.

Mood? All ranks in receipt of pay rise I imagine are appreciative but still pretty keen to see more change to lifestyle. Most SFO/CP are still in mourning from their 750 hour contracts and there is an awful lot of pressure on BALPA to secure a meaningful and significant change to pay/lifestyle in the negotiations that have started. Hopefully the pilots leaving for BA/EK etc shows the SLT it’s not the time to faff around.

That being said people are largely a pleasure to fly with and you will likely always find a few mates to have a beer with downroute
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Old 3rd Dec 2023, 19:00
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Anyone know how this payscale compares to European Air Cargo at Bournemouth?? Theres nothing on their website.
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