Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Jet2, Tui Or Ryanair?

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Jet2, Tui Or Ryanair?

Old 29th Mar 2020, 19:29
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The middle
Posts: 398
As generous as JfP makes them sound, all J2 have done at the moment is to pay March salaries in full. Much as I would like to think they will keep paying my full salary, the sensible thing to do would be to keep as small a skeleton staff of management and engineers as possible on a reduced salary and furlough everyone else. When an upturn eventually comes they can unfurlough the trainers, get people current in the sim whilst still furloughed (which is allowable under the government rules) and then bring people back onto salary as the flying programme requires.
Not doing something like that and taking any help available whilst it is available would appear to be very bad business sense... Iíd rather be paid £2500 per month by the government and still have a job at the end of this than getting my full salary and see the company fold or have to make compulsory redundancies later.
Noticeably the Tui group has already had 1.8 Billion euros from the German government. Whether any of that filters to Tui UK I donít know, but they have already put staff on half salary and stopped all training courses for those recently recruited.
excrab is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2020, 19:36
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: hector's house
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by Big Tudor View Post
No, Jet2 do not have any high street shops. All retail on the high street is done through independent agents who Jet2 have built up good relations with over the years. Direct bookings are through the website or call centre.
In that case, I would presume that Jet2 will be more able to weather a prolonged hiatus than the traditional vertically integrated tour operators.
hec7or is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2020, 19:52
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Little Town New Jersey
Posts: 154
Originally Posted by Brian Pern View Post
While it is nice to see Jet2 paying their staff, they have got no money comming in, the Dart Group may still be busy as they are a logistics company, but they will not be able to prop up the company for ever. With no outside income, any airline will struggle.
Summer 2020 is as good as written off, anyway you cut it. Jet2 several years ago decided to focus on holidays, this will affect their future massively, in hindsight the Airbus expansion was not a good idea, they will be the first to go, Jet2 have massive overheads, they have their own handling, employ more people at the check In than their competitors, which is all money. This thread is about 3 large operators, sadly I think the two companies who rely on Holiday traffic will struggle to survive, if they do they will be much mich smaller.
Brian I seem to remember you were getting a little stressed out about the airbus a few months ago.

When the airline starts up again I can assure the airbus will operate, the company wouldnít of continued training flights till the day after the final holiday customers returned home.

People want to go on holiday, and will remember what Jet2 did to get them back home over the last month.

All airlines big or small are in trouble, the government will need to choose who they rescue with furlough etc.

But Jet2 have money in the bank, which will hopefully see it through these uncertain times.
which of course the government can assist with its managed return to the sky.

The way I see it is it will be 3 winter costs in a row, Then the return of airlines and holiday companies for Summer 2021, whoever survives will prosper massively. And who says the company will focus on holidays only on its return? Flybe have already left a big gap in the market.

The Gimp
Crewing Gimp is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2020, 13:37
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 1
Iím not fully up to speed with Jet2 latest but I thought the travel side barely made any profit anyway?

Distribution side will be doing even better now.
Cargo is massively important at the moment.
BA flights are still only really operating because of the cargo side of things same as EK.
AIMINGHIGH123 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2020, 15:22
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: SW1A 2AA
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
Iím not fully up to speed with Jet2 latest but I thought the travel side barely made any profit anyway?

Distribution side will be doing even better now.
Cargo is massively important at the moment.
BA flights are still only really operating because of the cargo side of things same as EK.
What a load of tosh. Before posting garbage perhaps you should have a read of the Dart Group Annual Report.
Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2020, 15:45
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by Brian Pern View Post
While it is nice to see Jet2 paying their staff, they have got no money comming in, the Dart Group may still be busy as they are a logistics company, but they will not be able to prop up the company for ever. With no outside income, any airline will struggle.
Summer 2020 is as good as written off, anyway you cut it. Jet2 several years ago decided to focus on holidays, this will affect their future massively, in hindsight the Airbus expansion was not a good idea, they will be the first to go, Jet2 have massive overheads, they have their own handling, employ more people at the check In than their competitors, which is all money. This thread is about 3 large operators, sadly I think the two companies who rely on Holiday traffic will struggle to survive, if they do they will be much mich smaller.
There's always one doom and gloom merchant. Airbus expansion after a major rival went bust why not. No one saw this coming. The Staff will remember they got paid. Time to furlough now and batten down the hatches and be ready to start again. Good luck and be safe J2
GKOC41 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2020, 15:50
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 12
Still nothing from J2 management regarding what their plans are from what I've heard.
Normal Pilot is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2020, 19:57
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: 0ft
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by Brian Pern View Post
Well, in 2019 the group Staff Salary costs were £412,400,000 or £35,360,000 per month (yes that is millions) all off their report and accounts.
And a good chunk of that is made up of seasonal staff - resort staff, ground operations and seasonal cabin crew. All of which will not be paid as they are probably reducing the levels of staffing required (not bringing back staff, not recruiting for the season etc). All this will drastically reduce the wage bill which i suspect spikes during the May-October period.
LBAflyer22 is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2020, 22:16
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North England
Posts: 67
But the “Rt Hon” Gentleman is correct....... have a look of the company’s results for over the last 10+ years.
The “distribution” side (namely Fowler Welch..... TRUCKS) is successful, but generates a fraction of the profits compared to the airline and holiday company.
The “airline” hasn’t flown freight for some years now, and even then, was limited to Royal Mail contracts after the Channel Express A300’s went.
Bam Thwok is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2020, 22:32
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Either the back of a sim, or wherever Crewing send me.
Posts: 950
Excrab

As generous as JfP makes them sound, all J2 have done at the moment is to pay March salaries in full.
I merely answered the question, it was in no way meant as making them sound generous, merely fact. I suspect that it wonít be long before we hear about the battle plan and discover our financial fate, the benefit we have had is time as has been reported, Jet2 have a decent chunk of ££ in the bank, so they havenít had to knee jerk like others have.

It would make perfect sense to make as much use of the Governmentís furlough scheme to save a large proportion of the salary bill, I feel sure that will come to most.
Johnny F@rt Pants is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2020, 18:31
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of a bag
Posts: 558
All Jet2 crew have been furloughed with immediate effect. Backdated to their last flight. No information on any uplift on the Govt scheme as yet.
Flying Wild is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2020, 19:29
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Either the back of a sim, or wherever Crewing send me.
Posts: 950
Backdated to their last flight
Duty, not flight. Any duty counts.
Johnny F@rt Pants is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2020, 20:34
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of a bag
Posts: 558
Originally Posted by Johnny [email protected] Pants View Post
Duty, not flight. Any duty counts.
My bad, the letter must have taken pointers from Ryanair though. It provided a whole lot of nothing, whereas other airlines have been able to provide concrete information to their crews so they at least can plan for the next few months. Jet2? Just keep on waiting...Hardly working together as one team is it?
Flying Wild is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2020, 07:35
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North England
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by Flying Wild View Post
My bad, the letter must have taken pointers from Ryanair though. It provided a whole lot of nothing, whereas other airlines have been able to provide concrete information to their crews so they at least can plan for the next few months. Jet2? Just keep on waiting...Hardly working together as one team is it?
I look at it differently.....
PM and SH are applying their characteristic ďmodus operandiĒ in reacting to this crisis.
That is, a pragmatic, measured approach and NOT rushing in.
The letter, however vague, is only the first stage of this process but was required legally so as the company can now claim under the Governments ďfurloughĒ scheme.
It states that we will soon have further information of how that will effect us all ď individuallyĒ.

The meat on the bones will be made clear to us soon enough and Iím sure there will still be more questions to answer..... however, remember this could be a whole lot worse. Think of all those who were with FlyBe or with Thomas Cooke !

I, for one, was already planning for this. Realistically though, Iím planning for a lot longer than ďthe next few monthsĒ.
Bam Thwok is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2020, 13:54
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Damned if I know, ask crewing.
Posts: 6
Whilst I don’t disagree that there is more to come from the company on this. I think the general feeling among the troops on the front line is that it has not been executed or communicated very well. The letter we received was vague at best and requires a little reading between the lines to find a glimmer of hope that there will be a financial uplift on top of the £2500 paid by the Job retention scheme.

We have had OSI’s telling us everything is ok, we are financially well placed. Philip allegedly wandering the crew room saying we can go for 400 days without any Ops. Followed by a period of silence and then a letter saying sorry your now being furloughed.

As I said I’m also expecting more from the company but it would have been nice to have been given more information yesterday. It smacks of the usual Jet2 HR cock up with information slowly being drip fed while staff are sat at home waiting and worrying.
Big X is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2020, 14:28
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: England
Posts: 1
Big X I couldn't agree more!

We have had OSIís telling us everything is ok, we are financially well placed. Philip allegedly wandering the crew room saying we can go for 400 days without any Ops. Followed by a period of silence and then a letter saying sorry your now being furloughed.

I think it has been handled very badly by an airline that is promoting the strapline "Jet2cares". It might all turn out alright, but at the moment PM doesn't appear to care very much about his staff who are all sat at home wondering how they are going to pay their mortgages.
sloping_roof is offline  
Old 1st Apr 2020, 21:45
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of a bag
Posts: 558
Originally Posted by Big X View Post
Whilst I donít disagree that there is more to come from the company on this. I think the general feeling among the troops on the front line is that it has not been executed or communicated very well. The letter we received was vague at best and requires a little reading between the lines to find a glimmer of hope that there will be a financial uplift on top of the £2500 paid by the Job retention scheme.

We have had OSIís telling us everything is ok, we are financially well placed. Philip allegedly wandering the crew room saying we can go for 400 days without any Ops. Followed by a period of silence and then a letter saying sorry your now being furloughed.

As I said Iím also expecting more from the company but it would have been nice to have been given more information yesterday. It smacks of the usual Jet2 HR cock up with information slowly being drip fed while staff are sat at home waiting and worrying.
Donít get me started on the farce of social media informing staff of destination closures. That an email couldnít be sent out at the same time to keep all informed shows a major failing in leadership and communication.
Flying Wild is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2020, 13:51
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 498
With BA crews accepting a 50% pay cut it kinda sets a benchmark..maybe Jet2 will make up the difference to take the crews to 50%...On the other hand, as BA is reducing the cabin and ops costs this may influence their generous offer.. tough times ahead for sure..
Kirks gusset is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2020, 07:10
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Iím at one of the three named airlines, and I consider that each will react to the challenge in its own way. They are clearly three different entities, vastly differing cultures and their reaction to their latest threat will give clear indication to how they value their respective staff.

I have personally been quite impressed by the timely reaction from my own company. The company and the union working hand in hand. Between them they did manage to put many minds at ease a few weeks ago now. .My own company moved relatively quickly and we able to announce their plans going forward at quite an early juncture. The company worked closely with trade unions and it is my understanding both were on a similar page through debate to reach short term solutions to current challenge

This has changed and amended slightly since, due an award from a govt on the continent which provided no small means of security for the business, and then moves by our own U.K. govt. I canít speak for everyone at my company, certainly no spokesperson, however from an individual viewpoint, their response for me was timely, considered, changeable to suit the ongoing situation and showed no small means of humility to employees. There was a fair display of leadership thrown in for good measure too. Iím sure you will, in any company, find those who wouldnít be happy. But thatís just a fact of life.

Id suggest, with balance, the other two companies reacted differently. But this would no better nor worse, more simply be in line with their best efforts to secure the company going forward. It may give an indication to how employees are valued by the respective company and give some indication to the strength of their financial situation but more importantly going forward then I hope everyone is safe and some idea of Career security.

it is of course possible that things will look remarkably different once we come out of the other side of the current situation. But at the moment itís good that everyone has an idea of the forward plan.

Good luck stay safe.
Jcmcgoo is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2020, 19:51
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: England
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by sloping_roof View Post
Big X I couldn't agree more!

We have had OSIís telling us everything is ok, we are financially well placed. Philip allegedly wandering the crew room saying we can go for 400 days without any Ops. Followed by a period of silence and then a letter saying sorry your now being furloughed.

I think it has been handled very badly by an airline that is promoting the strapline "Jet2cares". It might all turn out alright, but at the moment PM doesn't appear to care very much about his staff who are all sat at home wondering how they are going to pay their mortgages.
I couldn't disagree more. We are financially well placed, and at no point have they said that this situation is OK. Why wouldn't they furlough us?? They would be insane not to. I'm surprised you didn't see that one coming!

I think our company has handled this very well; I appreciate the fact that this can't be a simple thing to sort out. I would much rather any decisions made by our management are considered, and as effective as possible to ride this out with all jobs intact.

Then put yourself in their shoes, they must be playing out an incredible amount of possibilities right now. What happens if this continues into Autumn? What is the outcome at our popular destinations? What about training and currency for each scenario? etc etc. The contingencies for the company must be endless, and as we have been told, the priority is to be ready when this blows over, for the inevitable pent up demand that is going to be there for the taking.

It is clear to me that they are soon to come to an agreement that is not going to be just the standard furlough amount, and we should remember that there are a lot more pilots working for other airlines in different countries that are not going to be looked after like this - you should be grateful.

Maybe this is a wake up call to those that maybe over-stretch themselves financially. Go and speak to a financial advisor about how much accessible cash one should hold on to for these kind of eventualities.

Have faith in an owner and CEO who do actually care about the company!
banterbus is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.