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Jet2, Tui Or Ryanair?

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Jet2, Tui Or Ryanair?

Old 29th Sep 2019, 13:49
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Planet Earth for a short visit
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I have worked for all 3

Jet2 were the friendliest and since BALPA recognition are certainly more stable and expanding. 5 good years there and would go back.

TUi/Jetairfly were the best in regards to training and encouraging manual flying skills were maintained and improved. Equipment was excellent. 2 good years in challenging locations and would go back.

that other option, hmmm? 18 months was 12 longer than I liked. Worst operation I have ever seen out of the 14 I have worked for around this planet. Would rather drive my truck than be associated with that again.

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, to satisfy the legal restraints................

I speak only the truth and still await your closure. X
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 17:57
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Nice post Old Wise Silvery one, and nice to catch up with you the other week.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 22:24
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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I have worked for J2 and Tui or whatever they are called this week. J2 for me.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 10:40
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Ryr are in the process (again) of attempting to drive down their staff costs in double quick time. The delay to the max means this year is probably the first year in many a year, where they have not had a single frame delivered.

Couple that with the almighty narrowly getting his 100m bonus signed off a few weeks ago, means his main lever to increase profits at present is to squeeze staff. Shutting down bases for ryr “mainline” and opening up the contractor version of the same company is happening, just as many predicted. Its widely predicted every single base east of german down to cyprus will go to ryr buzz/sun.

The main alarm bell you need to know about ryr, is look at where their staff come from. 90% cadets, the other 10% come from less reputable airlines or parts of the world. You never see a ryr driver from ba/vs/tui/j2/ezy/af/lufty etc.

this should tell you all you need to know!
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 10:59
  #25 (permalink)  
H44
 
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I know a few people from Jet2 who went to Ryanair, but that’s neither nor there I guess as I wouldn’t touch Ryanair with a barge pole, especially in the current climate.

I’ve worked for TUI and Jet2. Personally, TUI suited me better. I know it’s horses for courses, and Jet2 do have their plus points such as a quick command, but for me, the variety of flying (long haul, Canadian detachments etc), rostering agreements, part time options, and overall terms and conditions were significantly better when I worked for TUI.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 11:45
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, and there has been a handful who have tried a few months in BA and jet2, hated it and promptly returned to Ryanair - and I hear the ex monarch recruits were generally pleasantly surprised. For a while, Ryanair was kind of ok, even quite good, but changes in the last year or so, seem to now be setting in motion a mass exodus of experienced and 'mature' crews, which could bite them in a number of ways.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 13:03
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by UAV689 View Post
You never see a ryr driver from ba/vs/tui/j2/ezy/af/lufty etc.

this should tell you all you need to know!
Not true. Agreed, not in huge numbers but there are quite a few ex BA at Ryanair. I am one and I personally know several others. There are also ex Virgin guys here, ex Tui 787 Capts and plenty back from Jet2. I flew with one yesterday. I also know of a couple of ex Easy guys so to say you never see any of those in Ryanair is inaccurate.

It may not be to everyone’s liking and that’s understandable but there are many advantages of Ryanair. The money is good, quick command, huge variety of bases and the 5/4 roster is fantastic. That’s my take on it. Others will of course be quick to offer their alternative opinion.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 13:25
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by skyflyer737 View Post


Not true. Agreed, not in huge numbers but there are quite a few ex BA at Ryanair. I am one and I personally know several others. There are also ex Virgin guys here, ex Tui 787 Capts and plenty back from Jet2. I flew with one yesterday. I also know of a couple of ex Easy guys so to say you never see any of those in Ryanair is inaccurate.

It may not be to everyone’s liking and that’s understandable but there are many advantages of Ryanair. The money is good, quick command, huge variety of bases and the 5/4 roster is fantastic. That’s my take on it. Others will of course be quick to offer their alternative opinion.
well of course there will always be an exception to the rule! But the overwhelming movement of pilots is away from Ryanair to airlines like TUI. The ex TUI B787 captains that you might know, almost definitely left TUI because of ‘differing opinions’ about their suitability.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 13:53
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by midnight cruiser View Post
Yes, and there has been a handful who have tried a few months in BA and jet2, hated it and promptly returned to Ryanair - and I hear the ex monarch recruits were generally pleasantly surprised. For a while, Ryanair was kind of ok, even quite good, but changes in the last year or so, seem to now be setting in motion a mass exodus of experienced and 'mature' crews, which could bite them in a number of ways.

Whilst I'm no fan of Ryanair, I would like to know where the mass exodus will be heading to in the current climate, unless they are willing to spend sometime wondering in the wilderness.

The only companies recruiting en masse are QR, EK or asian outfits.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 14:06
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, "mass" is probably the wrong word, but the majority of experienced crews I speak with have recently put in applications to move on - and as you say, the names most commonly mentioned are QR, China, or jet2, (and BA and TUI in the case of FOs). With most of those, there is many months of lead time between application and start date, so the effect would kick in roughly when the max's start arriving in big numbers.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 14:18
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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The most frustrating/horrible aspect of voldemort airlines is the the awful way that the dna of the dark lord himself has infected every branch of the company.

He has created an atmosphere which PB himself said is toxic, pitching hq staff against pilots, base managers sent to do the evil work of disciplinary meetings for being sick for 4 days in a year..he has created a mentality in which everyone in hq (it feels like) is actively encouraged to try to find new ways to shaft their fellow colleagues, all to ensure the dark lord wins is 100m bonus. Most of the Hq staff are all young children or in their first office job and as such do not know any better, much like the vast majority of pilots who are from the cadet stream and also believe this to be the norm...!!!

Note in the latest round of pay cuts and contractorising you will never see the big players names signing these memos...they would not dare incriminate themselves, instead allowing the minions to do it for them.

There is a huge culture of fear, some staff still too scared to carry a fuel load that is different to what the plog says, a culture of rushing at every possible instance. Even some captains afraid of putting the apu on in 25 degree heat....

If you can put this mentality aside, and not let it effect you, the 5/4 is great if you are at home. However the constant barrage of belittling memo’s eventually grinds everyone down...


To summarise, TUI for a long term career if you are young, J2 if you are an established pilot already, Macdonalds, Burger King, Pizza hut then Voldemort Airlines.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 14:26
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by midnight cruiser View Post
Yes, "mass" is probably the wrong word, but the majority of experienced crews I speak with have recently put in applications to move on - and as you say, the names most commonly mentioned are QR, China, or jet2, (and BA and TUI in the case of FOs). With most of those, there is many months of lead time between application and start date, so the effect would kick in roughly when the max's start arriving in big numbers.
Are most of the people leaving, contractors or leaving from buzz etc? I know Ryanair is back to their old tricks with some of the new companies in the group, though is there any sign of them reintroducing the ltd company/self employed setup at Ryanair DAC?

I’ll be sniggering with glee if they are loosing crews again when they have to scramble to crew up for the MAX arrival.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 14:28
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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The reason I post so infrequently on PPRuNe is that whatever I post is deemed wrong and I’m the exception to the rule.

I just wish to write so some balance is provided. I, like many others, and the vast majority of those who I fly with, train or line check, are happy and settled in Ryanair, enjoy the job, enjoy the time off even more, and ignore the nonsense from management, of which I agree there is much. If you need extra fuel, take it. If you want the APU on, switch it on.

Of course, many leave and I understand that. But sorry not to tow the PPRuNe party line, but many here enjoy it!
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 14:49
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Well if it makes you feel better sky flyer, I'm more with you than the same old detractors of Ryanair. I find the day to day work environment pleasant, and the roster is good, the pay ok (but falling behind). It's rubbish to say there's pressure to fly with less fuel than you're comfortable with (infact, I see people talking far more extra fuel at Ryanair than I have seen at previous companies. A few captains who have been on the upper outliers have been asked to explain their fuel decision making in Dublin, but SFAIAA; without sanction, and likewise, delays [even ones caused by the crew] are regarded pragmatically by the company. Some base captains are more active on follow up than others, but a good captain will have the courage of their convictions and be able to fully justify their decision making, and that will be the end of that). Silly and immature behaviour does get rightly stamped on - for example, if you publicly state you're going to deliberately fly at low level to burn extra fuel and piss off the company... or refuse to do extra sectors because, well, you just don't feel like it, - then you can expect to be called in to do a carpet dance in Dublin! Feelings of morale and job security have taken a definite downturn recently, (and job applications a definite upturn!) but if you can avoid reading all the silly forums, discussion groups and memos, then you and I would plod along, quite happily as we always did.

Last edited by midnight cruiser; 30th Sep 2019 at 15:35.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 14:58
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I totally agree Midnight Cruiser.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 18:17
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Same here. Blueyellow may be not perfect (see points above), but it is often greatly exaggerated how ‚bad‘ it is to work for them. Roster‘s good, no (planned) night flying, mostly nice crews, planes maintained well, salaries ok (at least if you compare them to Lauda, Volotea etc)
Regarding fuel: An Ex Air Berlin Captain said once to me that he‘s taking more fuel now, than he used to do with AB. Never had any problem with that, as long as you‘ve got a reason for it. Don‘t take 5t extra just for fun...but I guess no airline would be too happy about that.

And there are plenty of guys coming from other airlines: As I said, Air Berlin, Germania, Emirates - i‘ve even flown with a former LOT Pilot.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 19:57
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flyfan View Post
And there are plenty of guys coming from other airlines: As I said, Air Berlin, Germania
It must be a great job if people are leaving these two airlines to join.

Originally Posted by midnight cruiser
or refuse to do extra sectors because, well, you just don't feel like it,
Thankfully in the real world, we have things called "rostering agreements", that prevent the company from adding an extra 6 hours to the end of your day whenever they feel like it.

Come on, the day to day can be fun if you're with the right person, but that's the same at any company. Let's be realistic, it's an awful place to be. A toxic company with bullying from the top down, everybody is in it for themselves. How effective was the last Ryanair strike? Completely useless, as there's plenty of people willing to throw their hands up and volunteer to trudge across Europe on three jumpseat flights just to say they helped the company out.

The 5/4 roster is great, if you want to spend your retirement in a box in the ground. Five 4-sector days in a row is not sustainable for a 30+ year career.

Job satisfaction is key, and if you enjoy working for Ryanair then that's great and nobody can take that away from you. But let's be real, they're bottom feeding bullies single-handedly dragging down T&Cs across the industry. The fact that it seems outrageous to decline extra sectors given to you as you taxi onto stand shows you everything about the culture of the airline, and the fear they've successfully installed within their spineless workforce.

Just my opinion of course.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 20:35
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Not only a lack of rostering agreement, but in most countries still a mental leave system, month off in winter, and 10 ad hoc days for the rest of year. If you you have kids you can basically kiss goodbye any form of leave with your family in the summer.

At j2 (could be mistaken, please correct me) do they not get 36 days leave vs ryr 28 (18 days assigned in ryr month off even if that month you was only rostered for 15 days..) and 36 confirmed bookable days off? A much better system, far better than the 5/4. Most people again this year will be assigned pretty much all their leave in Jan-March, leaving potentially 11 months without leave...or worse, leave in January, and not again until December the following year, nearly 2 years without any meaningful leave, and this does regularly happen to many crews.

And do not forget, the 5/4 is there for Voldemort’s benefit, not yours, never believe otherwise.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 21:41
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
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I honestly do not understand what is attractive about 5/4. Like the above poster states it is not for your benefit it is so they can maximise your productivity. I appreciate everyone's family situation and partners schedule is different, however I have never once been rostered 5 days of actual flying in a row at J2, I think I was rostered 4 once! Never done more than 2 sectors, it simply does not happen here unless you have to position an aircraft off an ASB.

I can book all of my kids school holidays off in a brilliant/simple online system with instant approval subject to the availability, which I can see on a separate page.

J2 is not perfect, but it's light years ahead of ​​RYR
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 22:00
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Who cares who the 5/4 benefits, could be the devil himself I will take it any day. No through the night flying, No start before 0525 and not a finish after 2400 I have seen in my base recently. With 5/4 and leave included you work less than half the year. I think it worked it out one year as 176 working days in the year or something like that. Month off not perfect but got June this year - well happy with that. Yes plenty 4 sector days but this week flew only one 4 sector day.

Cant speak for TUI but advise from co-pilot I flew with recently who returned from Jet2 was that "its a Capts airline". FO's treated better in Ryanair cockpits and only join as a DEC.

Ryanair is marmite. Most people who join will know within 6 months if its for them or not.

Echo comments about fuel, apu usage etc

I would welcome a change in attitude in management however Im not sure that revolution is coming anytime soon - even with BALPA.

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