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Jet2, Tui Or Ryanair?

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Jet2, Tui Or Ryanair?

Old 6th Apr 2020, 18:40
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Iíve been investing for 30 years, I know how it works, but thanks for trying to educate me.

Find a company with excessively more debt than profit, short it and over the long run you will win.

Thomas Cook was one of them, so was FlyBe (it made me a significant amount shorting these) Aviation examples but there are hundreds of companies with excessive debt.
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Old 6th Apr 2020, 21:22
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by frozenpilot View Post
However, we must look at each event in isolation. P*ssed off Brits stuck at home for extended periods being part funded by the Government! Oil costing a fraction of what it did previously. Chancellors motivated to prop economies up, not normal in a recession..
https://www.flightglobal.com/strateg...137774.article

I found this article, copied from another thread very interesting, as a view from an analyst that seems fairly balanced, pointing that the aviation industry as we knew it in January will take a few years to return.

ď...It also warns of weak traffic growth stretching deep into the upcoming decade. ďIt will take until 2022 or maybe 2023 to recover the level of traffic seen in 2019, since aviation volumes are directly related to economic activity and the world economy will shrink through this outbreak...Ē
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Old 9th Apr 2020, 19:25
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Jet2 have announced their pay intentions during furlough and for a fixed period of April to Sept 2020. Basic salary will be reduced by 30.00% for Captains, 24.81% for Senior First Officers, 23.14% for First Officers, and 18.56% for Second Officers. When the airline starts flying again, but during the period April to Sept, by 20.00% for Captains, 14.56% for Senior First Officers, 12.09% for First Officers and 8.54% for Second Officers.
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Old 9th Apr 2020, 19:32
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Wild View Post
Jet2 have announced their pay intentions during furlough and for a fixed period of April to Sept 2020. Basic salary will be reduced by 30.00% for Captains, 24.81% for Senior First Officers, 23.14% for First Officers, and 18.56% for Second Officers. When the airline starts flying again, but during the period April to Sept, by 20.00% for Captains, 14.56% for Senior First Officers, 12.09% for First Officers and 8.54% for Second Officers.
Thatís got to be up there as the best package out there currently! Good on the Jet2 guys!
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 09:27
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pilot2/b View Post
Thatís got to be up there as the best package out there currently! Good on the Jet2 guys!
The % reduction is only lower In jet2 because the pay scales are less than other U.K. airlines in the first place so the addition to the government max furlough amount is roughly the same.

tui pilots are very happy with their covid deal and the collaborative approach from management has been warmly received. EasyJet on the other hand have pilots rejecting deals and management making grabs on terms and conditions.

looking at how pilots have been treated during the furlough certainly indicated Tui and jet2 are the employers of choice amongst these.

tui also receiving massive state support from the German government.

I work for Tui and fly with plenty of ex easyJet, Ryanair and jet2 pilots, I donít know any that have voluntarily gone the other way.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 09:38
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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I don’t know any that have voluntarily gone the other way.
I do. Not many I will grant you, but there are guys at Jet2 that left Jet2 to go to TUI and hated it and have returned.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 10:23
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone notice a trend here that anything even remotely positive mentioned about TUI is quickly knocked down by those at Jet2?

Why is that?

I notice that when Thomas Cook were still around it was a friendly competitive attitude, just banter between colleagues at the two employers.
Certainly only my opinion but itís quite sad that itís not just the odd comparison of Tís and Cís these days, the impression I get more often that not is itís basically whatever Jet2 do is the best, and anyone else can happily keep quiet.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 10:55
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brn-2-fly View Post
Does anyone notice a trend here that anything even remotely positive mentioned about TUI is quickly knocked down by those at Jet2?

Why is that?

I notice that when Thomas Cook were still around it was a friendly competitive attitude, just banter between colleagues at the two employers.
Certainly only my opinion but itís quite sad that itís not just the odd comparison of Tís and Cís these days, the impression I get more often that not is itís basically whatever Jet2 do is the best, and anyone else can happily keep quiet.
unfortunately the management culture is ď letís give um a good kickingĒ.
whether it is other companies,airports, or more importantly employees that are deemed unworthy.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 11:22
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brn-2-fly View Post
Does anyone notice a trend here that anything even remotely positive mentioned about TUI is quickly knocked down by those at Jet2?

Why is that?

I notice that when Thomas Cook were still around it was a friendly competitive attitude, just banter between colleagues at the two employers.
Certainly only my opinion but itís quite sad that itís not just the odd comparison of Tís and Cís these days, the impression I get more often that not is itís basically whatever Jet2 do is the best, and anyone else can happily keep quiet.
I was one of the 600 who lost their job when Thomas Cook folded. Luckily, I was offered a new job with Jet2. I have found them to be excellent and I'm very happy with the overall package. I applied for dozens of jobs but my main focus was staying in the UK. I'm sure I would have been equally happy with TUI but I didn't get an interview.

Some people are rather childish about "their airline" being better or superior to others. What matters is that as an employee you are happy. Simple as that.

Lets hope we are all around wearing our existing uniforms 6 months from now.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 12:07
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Johnny [email protected] Pants View Post
I do. Not many I will grant you, but there are guys at Jet2 that left Jet2 to go to TUI and hated it and have returned.
What a pointless statement. The work which Jet2 and Tui short haul do is broadly similar in the destinations they fly to. But Tuiís terms and conditions are significantly better. Hence the significant flow of (excellent) Jet2 pilots to Tui. The fact that a handful may have returned to Jet2, says nothing. Itís about as relevant as saying my grandad lived to be a 102 even though he smoked 50 cigarettes a day. Anecdotally itís true, but hardly disproves the accepted facts.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 12:44
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7 View Post
What a pointless statement. The work which Jet2 and Tui short haul do is broadly similar in the destinations they fly to. But Tuiís terms and conditions are significantly better. Hence the significant flow of (excellent) Jet2 pilots to Tui. The fact that a handful may have returned to Jet2, says nothing. Itís about as relevant as saying my grandad lived to be a 102 even though he smoked 50 cigarettes a day. Anecdotally itís true, but hardly disproves the accepted facts.
As pointless as people repeatedly saying that people go to TUI from Jet2 and not the other way round, which is factually incorrect.

The point of this thread was a comparison between the three mentioned, and broadly speaking other UK based airlines. As someone who works for Jet2 I would rank them in this order for anyone in their 30s who had long term aspirations of a decent career in UK aviation, and I appreciate there will be a vast differing of opinions:

TUI, Jet2, then BA, if you are in your early 20s and live near London, move BA up that list as you see fit. Easyjet and Ryanair have showed their true colours in the last few months and will continue to go after pilot lifestyles in my opinion. Virgin would be a big gamble that they will be around long enough to ever get a command.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 12:56
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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What a pointless statement
I would disagree, I was merely pointing out that the comment that inferred that nobody leaves TUI to go to Jet2 is incorrect.

TUI do have better T’s and C’s but their swapping round of 787 to 737 and sending people to Scandinavia and bullet trips followed by taxis across the country doesn’t suit all. Don’t get me wrong, Jet2 has warts, as do all airlines.

I would go with a similar view to Whitemonk - Jet2/Tui top of the list, EZY next, BA if it suits you personally and McDonalds before Valdermort Airlines.

Last edited by Johnny [email protected] Pants; 10th Apr 2020 at 12:57. Reason: Typo
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 17:16
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Johnny [email protected] Pants View Post
I do. Not many I will grant you, but there are guys at Jet2 that left Jet2 to go to TUI and hated it and have returned.
I find it extremely hard to believe they ďhatedĒ being at TUI. Whatís to be hated about better Ts&Cs, better pay and opportunity for LH?

I agree with the other posters. Most of us have a ďweíre all in this togetherĒ kinda attitude but the J2 brigade soon turn up to shout them down!

If you want to play that game I flew with a few ex J2 Captains in my FR days and they said theyíd never go back - must be something wrong with them huh?
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 18:21
  #154 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SeaBreeze1 View Post

If you want to play that game I flew with a few ex J2 Captains in my FR days and they said theyíd never go back - must be something wrong with them huh?
And if you want to play THAT game, I was at Britannia when far better T&Cís than the current TUI offering were the norm and saw sizeable numbers leave for EasyJet, Virgin, BA and the Middle East, never to return. Must be something wrong with them huh?
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 18:22
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SeaBreeze1 View Post
I find it extremely hard to believe they ďhatedĒ being at TUI. Whatís to be hated about better Ts&Cs, better pay and opportunity for LH?

I agree with the other posters. Most of us have a ďweíre all in this togetherĒ kinda attitude but the J2 brigade soon turn up to shout them down!

If you want to play that game I flew with a few ex J2 Captains in my FR days and they said theyíd never go back - must be something wrong with them huh?
channel express fly flowers from Bournemouth to the islands, Britannia fly passengers around the globe,
its the mental aspect of a wanna be culture
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 19:15
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Big Tudor View Post
And if you want to play THAT game, I was at Britannia when far better T&Cís than the current TUI offering were the norm and saw sizeable numbers leave for EasyJet, Virgin, BA and the Middle East, never to return. Must be something wrong with them huh?
No airlinesí T&Cís are as good as they were 15+ years ago chap.

Iím merely trying to understand certain J2 guyís insecurities which become apparent whenever anybody says something positive about TUI.

Case in point I guess.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 20:00
  #157 (permalink)  
Alba Gu Brath
 
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Or maybe itís because J2 guys are soundly fed up with the derogatory comments directed to them and the company over the years, a number of which were from TUI pilots. Guess drinking all that kool- aid has provided a certain level of resilience.

And as for the ďNo airlinesí T&Cís are as good as they were 15+ years ago chap.Ē comment. Thereís one where T&Cís are significantly better than they were 15 years ago Ďchapí.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 20:11
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Johnny [email protected] Pants View Post
I would disagree, I was merely pointing out that the comment that inferred that nobody leaves TUI to go to Jet2 is incorrect.

TUI do have better Tís and Cís but their swapping round of 787 to 737 and sending people to Scandinavia and bullet trips followed by taxis across the country doesnít suit all. Donít get me wrong, Jet2 has warts, as do all airlines.

.
Yet even this quote is misleading. There are pilots who are dual fleeted. Many were surprised that this option was so heavily bid for and over subscribed during the last bid round. Some pilots like it! The Scandinavia flying suits some people very well and there is an element of taxing from one base to another. But it is hardly a significant part of most pilots experience in Tui. You are quite simply wrong and as others have pointed out, question your motives. I wish Jet2 pilots well and I hope their terms and conditions improve quickly to rival those that Tui presently enjoy. We are all in this together.


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Old 10th Apr 2020, 20:28
  #159 (permalink)  
Alba Gu Brath
 
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Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7 View Post
Jet2 pilots well and I hope their terms and conditions improve quickly to rival those that Tui presently enjoy. We are all in this together.
Agreed, and no further comments from me. Good luck to everyone no matter what colour your fuselage.
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Old 10th Apr 2020, 22:23
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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FNF. The trick is to not spend your life in that hotel room, but get out and about.
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