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Ryanair Cancelling flights!

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Ryanair Cancelling flights!

Old 4th Nov 2017, 14:32
  #921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: CA
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Originally Posted by Maxfli View Post
I wonder if this is wholly accurate.........

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1103/917332-ryanair/

It could be kosher if 1 months notice in advance is given......

Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997, Section 20
Is all true sadly,except Ryanairs dismissal of the facts...
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Old 4th Nov 2017, 14:57
  #922 (permalink)  
 
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What’s happened to MOL ? Gone very quite . Thought he had it covered ?
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Old 4th Nov 2017, 15:21
  #923 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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That's damage control and to prevent further embarrasment. The communications department now answers on his behalf that they don't respond to 'rumours or speculation', 'lies spread by competing companies and trade unions' and so on.
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Old 4th Nov 2017, 16:28
  #924 (permalink)  
 
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Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997, Section 20

This link mentions holiday pay. We are told that the 'contractors' are forced to take a month off, unpaid, and often not of their choosing. Given that an employee is entitled to a months holiday pay based upon an average of a month's income, I would have thought this would be sufficient incentive for contractors to establish once 7 for all their true status. Not to mention all the other worker's right, including sick day.
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Old 4th Nov 2017, 16:35
  #925 (permalink)  
 
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Chatting to a few FR guys has confirmed that leave is being allocated to their standard rest days without any notice, request or explanation. The view seems to be that they can now claim all leave was allocated. If they give the guys days off the roster cannot be covered. The question is whether those allocated December as their month off start seeing that leave unilaterally re-assigned to November and find Dec holiday plans up in smoke.... sounds like it’s “always getting better”. The mind boggles, pilots are leaving because they’re not happy, so they give them further reason to be upset. Perhaps Ryanair’s calculation is it’s better to shaft your staff and face the consequences later than publicly face up to more un-crewed flights?
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Old 4th Nov 2017, 16:59
  #926 (permalink)  
 
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If they can't cover the December roster, which has already been reduced with the previous cancellations, they are quite frankly screwed for next summer. The walls are crumbling.
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Old 4th Nov 2017, 17:00
  #927 (permalink)  
 
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I once worked for an outfit where we had more than the legal minimum days off per month. The normal days off allocation was not in any contract, it was just the accepted norm. Guess what, when demand became greater than supply the normal days off were reduced to legal minimum. No contract, no union. The further insult was when our 4 day stop over in Africa became 2 'duty/rest days' & 2 days off. Usually, after a weeks duty away from home we'd have 3-4 days off back home to transition back to European flying. As there was no jet lag involved we found ourselves back on roster after 2 days back home. Lots of grumbling, but nothing to be done. Morale was in the toilet. Wedges often have thin ends. Beware.
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Old 4th Nov 2017, 19:05
  #928 (permalink)  
 
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Contractor Conundrum

Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997, Section 20

This link mentions holiday pay. We are told that the 'contractors' are forced to take a month off, unpaid, and often not of their choosing. Given that an employee is entitled to a months holiday pay based upon an average of a month's income, I would have thought this would be sufficient incentive for contractors to establish once 7 for all their true status. Not to mention all the other worker's right, including sick day.
The contractors find themselves as both the employer and employee in their employment equation. I don’t think this has happened by chance.

Those employed directly that have been unilaterally allotted Annual Leave days without 30 days notice are entitled to have the days returned to them as set out by the Act.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 02:42
  #929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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This practice is common in the industry outside the civilised West where workers have some legal protections.
For instance, Hong Kong Airlines currently contracts 28 days AL to pilots. If you request three or four days AL in a month they will roster you for a longhaul flight finishing the day before your requested Leave, and bingo, the three or four days ‘rest and recovery’ you earned is now shown as AL. In effect the employee pilot subsidises the airlines AL budget. Daylight robbery. Perfectly legal.

And no such thing as ‘earned weekends’ on AL either.
Office staff work Monday to Friday, and if they take 5 days AL they automatically get the Sat/Sun off as well (and they get to sleep in their own beds every night the rest of the time).
Meanwhile aircrew, who’s lives are constantly disrupted by 24/7 rostering, are deprived of the Sat/Sun attached to AL (no such thing as ‘the weekend’ for aircrew), thus being effectively discriminated against compared to the Admins (who may, coincidentally, write those rosters).

Last edited by Killaroo; 6th Nov 2017 at 02:54.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 03:53
  #930 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile aircrew, who’s lives are constantly disrupted by 24/7 rostering, are deprived of the Sat/Sun attached to AL (no such thing as ‘the weekend’ for aircrew), thus being effectively discriminated against compared to the Admins (who may, coincidentally, write those rosters).
The reality is that any business in the western world is disconnected from its operational interface. MBA programs the world over preach that it matters little what the business actually does, lower unit cost by manipulation, outsourcing and even contract is the 'conventional wisdom'.

HR is the 'industry' feeding from this structure, designing rosters a small part of their vocation; they spend every waking hour circumventing contracts, creating conflict and generating adversity. It is this way they wedge themselves into remedies, thus ensuring their own survival..

Have seen it in a few corporations in my time..Whilst Mr O'Leary and his business model has plumbed new lows, they are not alone in their endeavours!
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 09:24
  #931 (permalink)  

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The MBA's aren't that smart though are they, because they only have to look at SWA to realise "there is another way".

But the problem is, when you don't buy into or believe in the business and consider it merely a stepping stone to "greater things", you can trash it during your tenure, move on, and are insulated from the ramifications or consequences....
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 10:46
  #932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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About AL, each airline do their own stuff. If pilots would not accept this they would not do it ...
A friend of mine in Austria, if ask 6 days holiday, he will have days on then 5days holidays then days on, I was choked when he told me that.

In my airline if I ask 5 days holiday, I m sure to have 2 days off 5 days holiday 2 days off.

An other friend of mine in France, if he ask at least 3 days holiday, he ll have 3 days off 3 days holiday 3 days off.

The basic should be at least like my airline.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 10:47
  #933 (permalink)  
 
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The MBA is nothing more than cookie cutter.
Horizon Air also among the 'smartest guys in the room' in a great self inflicted upper cut...


https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ilot-shortage/

Push the unit cost of labour towards zero, divide and conquer on the way...Pure genius! Only problem for these morons is as labour unit cost approaches the zero bound, revenue intercepts at zero too! Clearly though O'Leary is the grand wizard in aviation

You sir are absolutely correct.

SWA have been only doing it consistently for decades and I might add Rob Fyfe did a pretty good job of treating people with respect at Air New Zealand
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 08:10
  #934 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flocks View Post
About AL, each airline do their own stuff. If pilots would not accept this they would not do it ...
A friend of mine in Austria, if ask 6 days holiday, he will have days on then 5days holidays then days on, I was choked when he told me that.

In my airline if I ask 5 days holiday, I m sure to have 2 days off 5 days holiday 2 days off.

An other friend of mine in France, if he ask at least 3 days holiday, he ll have 3 days off 3 days holiday 3 days off.

The basic should be at least like my airline.
This is why an effective Union is necessary. Unscrupulous employers will always exploit Terms & Conditions if allowed.

In the current climate, pilots need to start being more picky, and instead of just looking at bottom lines (pay and promotions) when choosing a job, have a closer look at all the underhand ways they rip you off in AL, Days Off, Staff Travel, Duty Travel, Med and Lic Cover etc. In the excitement of getting a new job these things are glossed over. But once you’re online they are the things that will constantly piss you off and make you hate the place.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 09:18
  #935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Same Old Same Old!

Annual leave for employees, not contractors, on days off . Did not believe it until I saw it! Fantastic!
Floated out and DH on day off without being asked , all the old tricks.
But now with a friendly smile.
No pay increase in sight for anyone.
Pilots walking out, voting with the feet , as that is the ONLY way they can VOTE!
1000 new pilots hired since January, seriously Dude! 999 of them Cadets.

Its wetlease time this summer.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 10:12
  #936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Pilots walking out, voting with the feet , as that is the ONLY way they can VOTE!
1000 new pilots hired since January, seriously Dude! 999 of them Cadets.
Pilots own the endorsements and the hours...

It is so unnecessary that employees that by their nature are long term and not readily transferable are considered something to be exploited for their lack of movement, rather than savoured as valuable long term assets.

There are companies that understand the strategic asset that pilots are to an airline. In times to come, businesses will return to a more accommodating (partner) approach with their employees, but with huge investments in adversarial models, to a hammer every problem is a nail.

Ryanair isn't hurting enough yet.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 10:29
  #937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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It is indeed the “same old, same old” when people accept to be sent out of base and DH’ed somewhere on their days off! Dont answer your phone, and if you do, tell them to foxtrot oscar.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 10:46
  #938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Did you ever consider that RYR might be making things worse for a reason.? Maybe the cancellation of leave / issued leave on days off is all part of a plan. Make the environment as toxic as possible for the next few weeks until the arrival of the ' Messiah' (PB) from Malaysian. He arrives and with a wave of his arm instantly makes some of the nasty things go away ....." and if you'll just trust me and sign the agreement ...." Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing ....
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 11:25
  #939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Good plan, except that PB is a wolf in clothing.
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Old 7th Nov 2017, 23:44
  #940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Hey Ryanair, how are the rosters looking? You can't fire 59 captains at a time and replace them with 999 cadets.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1107/91...-collectively/
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