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Ryanair Cancelling flights!

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Ryanair Cancelling flights!

Old 7th Dec 2017, 05:32
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Eat into the disposable income of the consumer, (as Corbyn would delight in), and the humble workers income falls (or he loses his job and goes on benefits, which the state no longer has the tax revenues to afford,
This is not politics, neoclassical models underpin all economics undergraduate degrees, both sides of politics embraced it with vigour. It is nort confined to either side of the chamber, but it has not translated into higher standards of living for those not of means, or having chosen their parents well.

I would simply point you to GDP per capita figures in the western economies, Per capita income is already falling. Welfare spend as a percentage of GDP is increasing. National indebtedness as a share of GDP has grown considerably; the economy cnanot produce enpugh to meet the entitlement models. Globalisation has much to answer for. I would simply say as indigenous industry is lost the tax base declines as does disposable income.

advocates curtailing capital markets ability to adjust, and the states ability to deploy monetary stimulus
I don't advocate curtailing capital markets, but rates at 5,000 year lows some eight years into a so called 'recovery' isn't capitalist; Surely the time for neoclassical stimulus has passed? Should interest rates be hovering at near zero? Price discovery does not exist as money cannot be transparently priced. Risk is not correctly modelled. What is the yield on a 10 year Greek bond, about 5.2% for Greece?.... If 'capitalism' was allowed to operate, far more banks even countries would have paid the price for poor 'profit maximising decisions' in the GFC, but the taxpayer footed the bill. How is that capitalist again? Saving the big banks isn't capitalism, it is cronyism. Our 'market' is nowhere near capitalist.

Oh and what Mr Ford said in his 1926 book Today and Tomorrow was:

“The owner, the employees, and the buying public are all one and the same, and unless an industry can so manage itself as to keep wages high and prices low it destroys itself, for otherwise it limits the number of its customers. One’s own employees ought to be one’s own best customers.”
He also said:

[QUOTE]“We increased the buying power of our own people, and they increased the buying power of other people, and so on and on.It is this thought of enlarging buying power by paying high wages and selling at low prices that is behind the prosperity of this country.”[/QUOTE]


The result of the modern imbalance between labour and capital is grubs like Mr O'Leary can peddle employment models that would have made for a class war in the 19th century. It is the demographics generating higher retirement rates than can be replaced with declining birth rates that lead to dwindling supply. Rational choices of those pilots left in the industry 'maximising personal utility' (probably their mental health too) and getting as far away from Ryan Air as they can. Those remaining can choose to withdraw their labour, no small achievement in the modern economic world.

Last edited by Rated De; 7th Dec 2017 at 05:55.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 07:13
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If I were a 'self- employed' contractor I'd be awarding myself a generous Christmas holiday this year, regardless of what the roster said I was doing! You are self-employed after all.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 07:23
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It will never happen.
Remember, the Ryan pilots that are "fighting" for better terms are the same pilots who joined Ryan when their previous generation was "fighting" for better terms. It is a viscous circle.

Use Cathay as another example, B scalers joined on worst terms then the A scalers, which threatened the A scalers contract, they didn't care, but now they moan about pilots joining on a C scale or D scale contract and so on.....

If the pilots at Ryan were serious, they'd be declaring strike action already to hit the company hard during the Christmas period, whilst their latest disaster still remains fresh in the public mind.

Pay to fly is a product of the dream to fly, how long until you have a pay to cabin crew scheme come up?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:06
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Remember, the Ryan pilots that are "fighting" for better terms are the same pilots who joined Ryan when their previous generation was "fighting" for better terms.
The previous generation didn't "fight". That's the whole point. It is ridiculous blaming new entrants to the "profession" (term used very lightly) for the degradation of terms and conditions as the only people who are in a position to actually do anything about it are those currently in the job.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:41
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how long until you have a pay to cabin crew scheme come up?

Are you sure it hasn't already, in a non-direct manner?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:42
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Originally Posted by akindofmagic
The previous generation didn't "fight". That's the whole point. It is ridiculous blaming new entrants to the "profession" (term used very lightly) for the degradation of terms and conditions as the only people who are in a position to actually do anything about it are those currently in the job.
I wouldn't blame anyone for accepting a job, especially if it is their ticket into the industry, not their fault no one is stopping the company offering them a contract that is inferior to their counterpart.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:45
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Originally Posted by RAT 5
how long until you have a pay to cabin crew scheme come up?

Are you sure it hasn't already, in a non-direct manner?
Sadly, it probably has.

Though if the Irish mob had their way, they'd probably reduce the minimum cabin crew in the cabin and just say the FO will come out during the cruise for the service!
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 14:34
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Are Ryanair, as a Limited Company, allowed to give incorrect response to the market regarding threat of industrial action from its pilots?
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 06:59
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Not listed so am not sure of the exact provisions of the UK Company ( or Irish annexes)

However am aware that to be listed in the UK companies issuing shares must:

  • Be satisfied that the information given to the exchange is correct complete and not misleading.
  • If the issuer (company) becomes aware that information does not meet the previous requirement
  • It should immediately notify the exchange.
So technically they ought be truthful but lack of regulatory oversight is commonplace and therefore not often enforced.
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 17:58
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Self employed=self control of your work

Originally Posted by vrb03kt
If I were a 'self- employed' contractor I'd be awarding myself a generous Christmas holiday this year, regardless of what the roster said I was doing! You are self-employed after all.
Obviously if you are self employed you decide when to work and Ryanair have no say in the matter. They just hire your service when you are available. Would it be possible to only work Sunday to Thursday. ? As a contractor selling my my service I can’t see why not. If this is not the case I would certainly understand the contract pilots in Ryanair in wanting to leave.
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 22:26
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Except for the fact that in this case Ryanair have all the bargaining power. If you say I'll only work those days they say, ok then we will hire somebody else for that day and you need not work for us any more.
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 07:41
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Until there is none else to hire. Which seems to be worringly close (for Ryanair) for experienced pilots.

With the recent court ruling in ECJ, and the fact that pilots have created Ryanair councils under the local unions, I think everyone is hoping for the tipping point where bargaining power lies with the pilots. It’ll take a group of pilots who senses the strength of unity and feel they haven’t got too much to loose.

I welcome the proposed strike action in Italy. Just the media attention may get some prospect Ryanair passengers to look for something else on the 15th Dec.
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 13:44
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Rumours are saying Dublin base is backing industrial action. I can't find any news source, but stock price just went down, so I guess something is happening.
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 13:52
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Meeting this evening:

https://www.independent.ie/business/...-36391735.html
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 14:10
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Originally Posted by Can737
Rumours are saying Dublin base is backing industrial action. I can't find any news source, but stock price just went down, so I guess something is happening.
AFAIK there was a meeting scheduled for today, Dublin pilots vs. Eddie Wilson and Peter Bellew.
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 14:26
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Dublin Ryanair pilots vote for industrial action


...
Some 95 per cent of the pilots balloted by the Irish Airline Pilots Association (IALPA) voted in favour of industrial action, however, its not clear when this could take place...
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/....co/640nN9GrnU
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 10:12
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VC announced today industrial actions @ Ryanair. They didn't mention a specific date, in their press announcement they used the term "any time from now " no industrial actions will happen from Dec. 23rd. - Dec 26th.

https://www.vcockpit.de/presse/press...yanair-an.html
Only in German available....
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 11:16
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Reuters article : German pilots union steps up pressure on Ryanair with strike call
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 12:52
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And Dublin based pilots are officially striking the 20th this month.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 14:05
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https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...20th-1.3324473
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