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Ryanair Cancelling flights!

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Ryanair Cancelling flights!

Old 25th Oct 2017, 09:10
  #841 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 522
It is a great shame RAT 5, my 12-year old self would never have believed that I'd one day utter those words when I started down the aviation career path.

I was asked recently by a friend of a friend to go and have a chat to his Son about flying as a career choice, I politely turned him down and said that I wasn't the right man to do it.

Am I right to blame Ryanair for all that is bad about UK aviation, or would it have all gone downhill anyway without their existence?
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 09:45
  #842 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 321
No, blame the very people who accept T & Cs, that's the real reason they are so low. Ryanair are only as bad as they are because people accept what they offer, it's the same with any company. You can dress it up and disagree until the cows come home but everything offered was optional, nobody had their family held at gunpoint to make them accept it. The fundamental and basic issue is anyone will accept anything to sit in the RHS of an airliner, it is they who are to blame. Ryanair, easyjet and all the others are just offering what they can get away with and why not? That's what business is all about, reduce your costs = make more profit. It's like Valentine's Day, why do your 12 roses cost 4 x more than usual? Service station cuppas, why are they 3 x the price as anywhere else? Because us muppets are prepared to pay it, it's very simple. Ahh but it's the only job going I hear you say, well if it's that bad then why even start training? Where's the research into the job market? There probably wasn't any. Back in the day when Danny run PPRuNe they held a seminar, they had an official statistic regarding recruitment and it went something like this..during a healthy recruitment year (that's healthy, not a recession) there are about 250-300 jobs available in that year in the UK. As a 10 year average there's about 1200 new fATPLs issued every year. The maths work out that on average, 900 will never find jobs (this was before Europe really opened up for pilot jobs, i.e. when the T&Cs rot set in) yet in the deepest recession in living memory the flight schools were FULL, yes full. That's where the issue lies, potential pilots training regardless of the situation then being forced to take any shite that came their way to pay off training loans. Who in their wildest dreams would start training in the deepest recession in living memory, spending £100k purely based on a promise from the flight schools? Go figure, and herein lies the root of all our T&C issues.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 10:15
  #843 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: France
Posts: 106
Amen to that !
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 12:30
  #844 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 60

Airline pilots and wannabees looking for better T&C; and hoping a real or impending staff shortage will help them.
The advent of good T&C will raise DOC, therefore raise passenger fares.
A large number of pax who currently rely on extremely low airfares will then be unable to travel as heretofore.
Lots fewer pax........lots fewer aircraft required.........what pilot shortage?......how now about those ambitious T&C targets...?
rifruffian is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2017, 13:46
  #845 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 48
what constitutes good t's and c's ? im happy to be taking home £115k for a low cc but know if i moved to RYR i would be working longer hours but with the new UK pay deals i would be pulling in about an extra £22k give or take, plus the £10k joining bonus, ive not kids so an extra grand in my pocket might swing it
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 14:15
  #846 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Up high
Posts: 542
I don't think so. Those same pax happily pay 40 pounds a day for parking or 7 pounds for a latte and a croissant at the airport starbucks. In fact every morning there is a considerable queue. If you afford to fly to Malaga for 40 pounds you can afford to fly for 50. After all the airline fare is by far the cheapest part of the trip.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 15:03
  #847 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 503
Interestingly, people getting offered jobs at the moment are getting their base of choice!
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 15:10
  #848 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 16:51
  #849 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 60
Elephant and Castle you and I refer to different sectors of the market. You are correct inasmuch as some will tend to the spending pattern to which you refer.
Some others will fly to and from Malaga for a tenner each way , do not park at the airport or anywhere, don't buy anything within the airport or on the aircraft and quite possibly have private accommodation arrangements at foreign destination. These are not air travel clientele of commercial first choice but they do exist, the question is in what numbers ?
If the very low cost option is not available from time to time these travellers will not move.......hence fewer aircraft and pilots required.
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Old 25th Oct 2017, 20:45
  #850 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 184
Ryan doesn't make money from these people. For 10 bucks it is better for ryan if they don'T fly.

Ryan Air want the people who spend 10 bucks on the fare, then 50 for a bag and 20 for drinks etc. This is how they make money. Not from the 10 buck customer who doesn't spend anything more.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 09:02
  #851 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: U.K.
Posts: 35

Menioned above but not obvious what it refers to:


The ECA have started a sort of “Crowdfund” scheme to support non represented pilots.

Funny, I was saying the other day to some colleagues that BALPA should start a Crowdfund to support FR pilots and then received an email from the ECA saying they have done just that! It would be nice to know how many and how much is going in though as am happy to put in more if it is really going to become a war chest!

I firmly believe it is in all our interests to support them any way we can. It is not just about improving salaries-but T and Cs and an end to this bogus Zero Hours self employed nonsense.

Good luck to all Ryanair employees.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 10:31
  #852 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Still looking
Posts: 126
Yes, definitely worth supporting these folk who put their heads up to support the FR rank and file. It’s in all our interests. My understanding is that under EU law it’s illegal to penalise anyone for representing their fellow employees. Ryanair have been asked by letter to give such assurances but have declined to do so. Is this an example of FR putting two fingers up to the law and just saying “sue us if you can, we’ve got a bigger cheque book” ?
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 12:59
  #853 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: France
Posts: 106
Spotted on LastestPilotJobs.com, seems desperate or genuine ?
Airone2977 is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2017, 13:43
  #854 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by RHINO View Post
Interestingly, people getting offered jobs at the moment are getting their base of choice!
this is true, i spoke to one of their recruiters, alebit on linkedin, the infamous Darren Kinsella, but he was offering me a UK base, either EDI, EMA or STN on a perm local UK Contract, apparently the salary £22k increases in STN will apply to new joiners in other UK bases too, he said the only course dates they had at the moment were in Jan as there are a lot of new joiners coming from Brazil ?, not sure how they are hiring them unless they have EU passports which i'm guessing they could, Monarch and Air Berlin before Christmas. I was only phishing for info as my family home is in Milton Keynes but no chance of Luton Base and BHX full.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 15:45
  #855 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Far East
Posts: 81
So here goes more of the divide and conquer technique.
Pilots joining on 01st November will be paid +23% more = approx £2000pcm more........ than faithful ,hard working professional currently online captains.
Wow , thats going to be very unpopular and will certainly divide.
Joining at a time when the 'faithful' are hoping to improve employer-employee relations and in particular terms and conditions really puts the cat among the pigeons.
So joining in Nov and dividing the faithful would then be rewarded with a possible new contract obtained by the ERC with improved terms/cond? or would they be stuck on the joining contract?
I guess it is hoped that when new joiners are seen to be earning £2k/pcm more the rest will fall into line eventually.So they will hold out and see how long that takes by taking a hard line and refusal to negotiate.
Good luck chaps , it may get messy soon.
wisecaptain is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2017, 16:18
  #856 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: My house
Posts: 1,340
Bear in mind as well chaps that the pay increase is not basic pay. It’s £10k on basic and a 12k bonus which isn’t in the contract and is conditional.

I’m based in the midlands and know for a fact BHX is not full as there are at least 3 skippers leaving and they were short anyway!

Divide and conquer in full swing, some incredible lies being banded around!!
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 16:19
  #857 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Location
Posts: 99
No one said it was going to be beautiful, Ryanair management have years of practice of divide and conquer, it is a very functional engine. I am sure EERC have some surprises for them coming.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 16:40
  #858 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK, Paris, Peckham, New York
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Airone2977 View Post
Spotted on LastestPilotJobs.com, seems desperate or genuine ?
At least in this advert it says minimal overnights! Not the usual no unplanned over nights...I would say 1 hr notice for 3 days in arse end of Poland is unplanned overnight...someone probably sued them for mis-selling!
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 16:49
  #859 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Far East
Posts: 81
Gunning for F/O's to join too
FAO Jet2.com and Norwegian Pilots!!-Latest Pilot Jobs-Latest Pilot Jobs

I may be wrong here but I think the advert for RYR capt I saw posted on PPRuNe recently is not correct.
RYR were stating Jet2 pay as £92k basic
+ £9.5k flt pay
+ £9.2k pension
Total = £108.7k

However I have been told that J2 have another pay rise due in April 2018 taking the basic pay to £99.650 so therefore:
+ £9.5k
+ £9.965k
Total = £119.115

I make that only 12% more NOT 23% by April 2018 with the new RYR figures they advertise.
Already it doesnt look so good especially considering that its due for renegotiation in 2020 and £12k is only a bonus which is vulnerable.
Especially as J2 are contracted at 600hrs and have an easy off-season and J2 pay for uniform+licence+parking etc.
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Old 26th Oct 2017, 18:36
  #860 (permalink)  
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Contracted at 600hrs?! I wish.
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