Ryanair Cancelling flights!
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Milton Keynes
what constitutes good t's and c's ? im happy to be taking home £115k for a low cc but know if i moved to RYR i would be working longer hours but with the new UK pay deals i would be pulling in about an extra £22k give or take, plus the £10k joining bonus, ive not kids so an extra grand in my pocket might swing it
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
From: Up high
I don't think so. Those same pax happily pay 40 pounds a day for parking or 7 pounds for a latte and a croissant at the airport starbucks. In fact every morning there is a considerable queue. If you afford to fly to Malaga for 40 pounds you can afford to fly for 50. After all the airline fare is by far the cheapest part of the trip.
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 99
Likes: 1
From: Location
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: UK
Elephant and Castle you and I refer to different sectors of the market. You are correct inasmuch as some will tend to the spending pattern to which you refer.
Some others will fly to and from Malaga for a tenner each way , do not park at the airport or anywhere, don't buy anything within the airport or on the aircraft and quite possibly have private accommodation arrangements at foreign destination. These are not air travel clientele of commercial first choice but they do exist, the question is in what numbers ?
If the very low cost option is not available from time to time these travellers will not move.......hence fewer aircraft and pilots required.
Some others will fly to and from Malaga for a tenner each way , do not park at the airport or anywhere, don't buy anything within the airport or on the aircraft and quite possibly have private accommodation arrangements at foreign destination. These are not air travel clientele of commercial first choice but they do exist, the question is in what numbers ?
If the very low cost option is not available from time to time these travellers will not move.......hence fewer aircraft and pilots required.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 4
From: Europe
Ryan doesn't make money from these people. For 10 bucks it is better for ryan if they don'T fly.
Ryan Air want the people who spend 10 bucks on the fare, then 50 for a bag and 20 for drinks etc. This is how they make money. Not from the 10 buck customer who doesn't spend anything more.
Ryan Air want the people who spend 10 bucks on the fare, then 50 for a bag and 20 for drinks etc. This is how they make money. Not from the 10 buck customer who doesn't spend anything more.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: U.K.
Crowdfund
Menioned above but not obvious what it refers to:
https://www.eurocockpit.be/campaign/pilot-unity-2017
The ECA have started a sort of “Crowdfund” scheme to support non represented pilots.
Funny, I was saying the other day to some colleagues that BALPA should start a Crowdfund to support FR pilots and then received an email from the ECA saying they have done just that! It would be nice to know how many and how much is going in though as am happy to put in more if it is really going to become a war chest!
I firmly believe it is in all our interests to support them any way we can. It is not just about improving salaries-but T and Cs and an end to this bogus Zero Hours self employed nonsense.
Good luck to all Ryanair employees.
https://www.eurocockpit.be/campaign/pilot-unity-2017
The ECA have started a sort of “Crowdfund” scheme to support non represented pilots.
Funny, I was saying the other day to some colleagues that BALPA should start a Crowdfund to support FR pilots and then received an email from the ECA saying they have done just that! It would be nice to know how many and how much is going in though as am happy to put in more if it is really going to become a war chest!
I firmly believe it is in all our interests to support them any way we can. It is not just about improving salaries-but T and Cs and an end to this bogus Zero Hours self employed nonsense.
Good luck to all Ryanair employees.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
From: Still looking
Yes, definitely worth supporting these folk who put their heads up to support the FR rank and file. It’s in all our interests. My understanding is that under EU law it’s illegal to penalise anyone for representing their fellow employees. Ryanair have been asked by letter to give such assurances but have declined to do so. Is this an example of FR putting two fingers up to the law and just saying “sue us if you can, we’ve got a bigger cheque book” ?
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: UK
Spotted on LastestPilotJobs.com, seems desperate or genuine ?
https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/9058.html
https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/9058.html
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Milton Keynes
this is true, i spoke to one of their recruiters, alebit on linkedin, the infamous Darren Kinsella, but he was offering me a UK base, either EDI, EMA or STN on a perm local UK Contract, apparently the salary £22k increases in STN will apply to new joiners in other UK bases too, he said the only course dates they had at the moment were in Jan as there are a lot of new joiners coming from Brazil ?, not sure how they are hiring them unless they have EU passports which i'm guessing they could, Monarch and Air Berlin before Christmas. I was only phishing for info as my family home is in Milton Keynes but no chance of Luton Base and BHX full.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Far East
So here goes more of the divide and conquer technique.
Pilots joining on 01st November will be paid +23% more = approx £2000pcm more........ than faithful ,hard working professional currently online captains.
Wow , thats going to be very unpopular and will certainly divide.
Joining at a time when the 'faithful' are hoping to improve employer-employee relations and in particular terms and conditions really puts the cat among the pigeons.
So joining in Nov and dividing the faithful would then be rewarded with a possible new contract obtained by the ERC with improved terms/cond? or would they be stuck on the joining contract?
I guess it is hoped that when new joiners are seen to be earning £2k/pcm more the rest will fall into line eventually.So they will hold out and see how long that takes by taking a hard line and refusal to negotiate.
Good luck chaps , it may get messy soon.
Pilots joining on 01st November will be paid +23% more = approx £2000pcm more........ than faithful ,hard working professional currently online captains.
Wow , thats going to be very unpopular and will certainly divide.
Joining at a time when the 'faithful' are hoping to improve employer-employee relations and in particular terms and conditions really puts the cat among the pigeons.
So joining in Nov and dividing the faithful would then be rewarded with a possible new contract obtained by the ERC with improved terms/cond? or would they be stuck on the joining contract?
I guess it is hoped that when new joiners are seen to be earning £2k/pcm more the rest will fall into line eventually.So they will hold out and see how long that takes by taking a hard line and refusal to negotiate.
Good luck chaps , it may get messy soon.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,339
Likes: 1
From: My house
Bear in mind as well chaps that the pay increase is not basic pay. It’s £10k on basic and a 12k bonus which isn’t in the contract and is conditional.
I’m based in the midlands and know for a fact BHX is not full as there are at least 3 skippers leaving and they were short anyway!
Divide and conquer in full swing, some incredible lies being banded around!!
I’m based in the midlands and know for a fact BHX is not full as there are at least 3 skippers leaving and they were short anyway!
Divide and conquer in full swing, some incredible lies being banded around!!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 25
Likes: 1
From: UK, Paris, Peckham, New York
Spotted on LastestPilotJobs.com, seems desperate or genuine ?
https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/9058.html
https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/9058.html
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Far East
Gunning for F/O's to join too
FAO Jet2.com and Norwegian Pilots!!-Latest Pilot Jobs-Latest Pilot Jobs
I may be wrong here but I think the advert for RYR capt I saw posted on pprune recently is not correct.
RYR were stating Jet2 pay as £92k basic
+ £9.5k flt pay
+ £9.2k pension
Total = £108.7k
However I have been told that J2 have another pay rise due in April 2018 taking the basic pay to £99.650 so therefore:
+ £9.5k
+ £9.965k
Total = £119.115
I make that only 12% more NOT 23% by April 2018 with the new RYR figures they advertise
.
Already it doesnt look so good especially considering that its due for renegotiation in 2020 and £12k is only a bonus which is vulnerable.
Especially as J2 are contracted at 600hrs and have an easy off-season and J2 pay for uniform+licence+parking etc.
FAO Jet2.com and Norwegian Pilots!!-Latest Pilot Jobs-Latest Pilot Jobs
I may be wrong here but I think the advert for RYR capt I saw posted on pprune recently is not correct.
RYR were stating Jet2 pay as £92k basic
+ £9.5k flt pay
+ £9.2k pension
Total = £108.7k
However I have been told that J2 have another pay rise due in April 2018 taking the basic pay to £99.650 so therefore:
+ £9.5k
+ £9.965k
Total = £119.115
I make that only 12% more NOT 23% by April 2018 with the new RYR figures they advertise
.Already it doesnt look so good especially considering that its due for renegotiation in 2020 and £12k is only a bonus which is vulnerable.
Especially as J2 are contracted at 600hrs and have an easy off-season and J2 pay for uniform+licence+parking etc.
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 99
Likes: 1
From: Location
UK-based Ryanair pilots considering group legal action
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1026/915496-ryanair/
...The survey also asks whether pilots employed on agency contracts would back a group legal action to test the legality of their employment structures, and to establish better rights as employees.
BALPA General Secretary Brian Strutton said Ryanair was unique in the complexity of its employment structures, and his organisation was issuing the survey at the request of Ryanair pilots, who have until 6 November to respond to it.
He said they were also examining a potential legal challenge to Ryanair's employment practices, similar to that mounted recently by Uber drivers.
In a response, Ryanair rejected the BALPA allegations about its "complex employment structures" as false.
It said a majority of Ryanair pilots in 2017 are direct employees, and a minority are contractors.
....
....
According to information seen by RTÉ, pilots at Madrid, Stansted, Glasgow, Pescara and Naples decided to reject the deal which could have seen increases of up to €22,000.
Bases where pilots voted to accept the management proposals and the conditions attached to them were Belfast, Gdansk, Prestwick, and Lamezia, though Ryanair has previously stated that it has done pay deals with at least 10 bases....
BALPA General Secretary Brian Strutton said Ryanair was unique in the complexity of its employment structures, and his organisation was issuing the survey at the request of Ryanair pilots, who have until 6 November to respond to it.
He said they were also examining a potential legal challenge to Ryanair's employment practices, similar to that mounted recently by Uber drivers.
In a response, Ryanair rejected the BALPA allegations about its "complex employment structures" as false.
It said a majority of Ryanair pilots in 2017 are direct employees, and a minority are contractors.
........
According to information seen by RTÉ, pilots at Madrid, Stansted, Glasgow, Pescara and Naples decided to reject the deal which could have seen increases of up to €22,000.
Bases where pilots voted to accept the management proposals and the conditions attached to them were Belfast, Gdansk, Prestwick, and Lamezia, though Ryanair has previously stated that it has done pay deals with at least 10 bases....
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: North
It is not about the money and nobody gives a 
how much they offer
They just don’t get it. Words and promises in job adverts are useless. It will be interesting to see the next actions coming up and the inevitable strike of course.
how much they offerThey just don’t get it. Words and promises in job adverts are useless. It will be interesting to see the next actions coming up and the inevitable strike of course.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
Pilots joining on 01st November will be paid +23% more = approx £2000pcm more........ than faithful ,hard working professional currently online captains.
I was a victim of this scenario some years ago. I had a direct contract, a colleague had exactly th see eroded contract at the same base. He received, unwritten, extra benefits and expenses. Under EU law I was considered to be treated 'less favourably'. Employed on the same contract to perform the same duties, but for different recompense. Illegal.
I was a victim of this scenario some years ago. I had a direct contract, a colleague had exactly th see eroded contract at the same base. He received, unwritten, extra benefits and expenses. Under EU law I was considered to be treated 'less favourably'. Employed on the same contract to perform the same duties, but for different recompense. Illegal.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
The survey also asks whether pilots employed on agency contracts would back a group legal action to test the legality of their employment structures, and to establish better rights as employees.
“United Kingdom – A classic test for the existence of an employment relationship involves an assessment of the extent to which the person engaging the worker exercises, or has the right to exercise, control over the worker (see Ready Mixed Concrete (South East) Ltd v. Minister of Pensions and National Insurance [1968] 2QB 497, MacKenna J at p.515; Nethermere (St.Neots) Ltd v. Gardiner [1984] ICR 612, Stephenson LJ, p.623). The changing nature of control in many employment relationships, from ‘how to’ to ‘what to’ (see Viscount Simmonds in Mersey Docks & Harbour Board v. Coggins & Griffiths Ltd [1947] AC 1,12), has blurred the distinction between the extent of control exercised in employment and self employment relationships, and thus diminished the role of the control test in distinguishing between the two. However, it still plays an important role, and in the 1995 Court of Appeal case of Lane v. Shire Roofing ([1995] IRLR 493, Henry LJ indicated (at 495) that the existence of an employment relationship is determined by the answers to the following questions: ‘who lays down what is to be done, the way in which it is to be done, the means by which it is to be done and the time when it is done?” (Page 40) –
Regulating the Employment Relationship in Europe- Link:
http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/pub...cms_209280.pdf
Difficult to understand why Norwegian’s pilots pay union dues for representation to a service provider agency when the Norwegian airline is their “real employer”. Norwegian's US based LH cabin crew challenged their status and won a legal ruling the airline is their employer. Ryanair pilots can do the same - but will they?