SAS Ireland SAIL
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 9
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From: Burwash
Have SAS recently made pilots redundant?
"Au contraire" there already is a new and improved contract out that is very competitive, but we are still far cheaper as the cost of living outside scandinavia is far cheaper.
I have worked for a number of airlines, not one of my previous companies exist anymore. I learned a long time ago airlines are not pilot charities....some still haven't it seems.
Good luck to all
"Au contraire" there already is a new and improved contract out that is very competitive, but we are still far cheaper as the cost of living outside scandinavia is far cheaper.
I have worked for a number of airlines, not one of my previous companies exist anymore. I learned a long time ago airlines are not pilot charities....some still haven't it seems.
Good luck to all
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Likes: 1
From: austria
SAIL goal is to be cheaper than SAS mainline, thats a fact. So everybody has to decide him/herself, if she/he wants to be "cheap". I for myself was proud to tell them the truth during my interview and rejected their sim offer, because of ethical reasons. Now I understand of course people, that have a loan, family to support, that they pray to SAIL, but I can only agree with all the posters above, that mentioned, how cheap SAIL is , indeed. I myself got an offer with much better t&c´s, not only money wise, also ethical wise, how people are treated in SAILS is not the way of my multicultural and ethical mind, but I not wanna to start a political discussion, I think our british friends have more than enough with the present brexit chaos, at the end of the day everybody gets back what she/he earns. Thats also a fact.
Joined: Apr 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,817
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From: United Kingdom
SAIL is just a further race to the bottom with regards to T&C's. It's not about wishing people become redundant, but it's clear from the Scandinavian Unions that SAIL is not a welcome sight.
You might not like the reality, but when it's told to be worse than Ryanair, than it should be eye opener.
I have worked with loads of ex Ryanair guys, and asked them if it really was as bad as I have read, they told me it was worse than we can imagine.
I also understand people need to put food on the table for their families etc., but from the reports SAIL had to cancel hundreds of flights this summer due to lack of crew, according to the Scandinavian press the writing is on the wall regarding the future of SAIL, and the Scandinavian unions will not be there help it survive.
You might not like the reality, but when it's told to be worse than Ryanair, than it should be eye opener.
I have worked with loads of ex Ryanair guys, and asked them if it really was as bad as I have read, they told me it was worse than we can imagine.
I also understand people need to put food on the table for their families etc., but from the reports SAIL had to cancel hundreds of flights this summer due to lack of crew, according to the Scandinavian press the writing is on the wall regarding the future of SAIL, and the Scandinavian unions will not be there help it survive.
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 8
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From: Cardif
That is interesting and stiff! I asked to CAE if the flexible roster is connected to the high season periods and their answer is:
The flexible roster was added in the last contract because SAS Ireland try to limit flight cancellations. It seems that there is a large turnover of employees (for different reasons), having many trainings and little availability from the employees, definitely SAS Ireland need more flexibility in the rostering.
The flexible roster was added in the last contract because SAS Ireland try to limit flight cancellations. It seems that there is a large turnover of employees (for different reasons), having many trainings and little availability from the employees, definitely SAS Ireland need more flexibility in the rostering.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,410
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From: Between a rock and a hard place
R1ddle,
SAS management uses SAIL to/from and domestic Scandinavia. They want to operate in Scandinavia without carrying the associated costs of doing so. It's our schools, health care and public services that are loosers. On top of that a perfect tool for union busting. SAS management did not anticipate the local pilot shortage (and I emphasize local, it'll probably be over soon with the fall of Primera, Smal Planet... WOW?)). We'll see if the wind fills the sail again (pun intended), mainline pilots aren't so thrilled. I hope you understand why. It's not the players we're against, it's the business model.
SAS management uses SAIL to/from and domestic Scandinavia. They want to operate in Scandinavia without carrying the associated costs of doing so. It's our schools, health care and public services that are loosers. On top of that a perfect tool for union busting. SAS management did not anticipate the local pilot shortage (and I emphasize local, it'll probably be over soon with the fall of Primera, Smal Planet... WOW?)). We'll see if the wind fills the sail again (pun intended), mainline pilots aren't so thrilled. I hope you understand why. It's not the players we're against, it's the business model.
Joined: Apr 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,817
Likes: 276
From: United Kingdom
Have SAS recently made pilots redundant?
"Au contraire" there already is a new and improved contract out that is very competitive, but we are still far cheaper as the cost of living outside scandinavia is far cheaper.
I have worked for a number of airlines, not one of my previous companies exist anymore. I learned a long time ago airlines are not pilot charities....some still haven't it seems.
Good luck to all
"Au contraire" there already is a new and improved contract out that is very competitive, but we are still far cheaper as the cost of living outside scandinavia is far cheaper.
I have worked for a number of airlines, not one of my previous companies exist anymore. I learned a long time ago airlines are not pilot charities....some still haven't it seems.
Good luck to all
Sometime ago when was working with some ex Ryanair guys, and we talked about Cabin Crew conditions at RyR, I asked the stupid question why do they put up with such conditions, than to be told most of them that come and work come from "poor" European countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy and Eastern Europe etc. Places where it's not easy to find good paid jobs.
And I can recall from few years back, before my flying days I lived in Spain, and we had this waitress working in our local restaurant, she would work 6 days a week, 2 jobs and around 10 - 12 hours a day, for this she would have around £500 - 600 a month. (around 15 years ago)
So I can see why loads of people get sucked into taking such jobs, and getting treated like trash, for them it's an "upgrade" - this is where EU has become a dream for companies wanting to take advantage of a EU wide cheap labour market to squeeze the prices down.
As 172_driver says, "It's not the players we're against, it's the business model."
R1ddle can you honestly not see the issues with SAIL business model and the threat it poses to SAS mainland? The "Creators" of SAIL are treating you as test subject, they are hoping this will be the future, so they can make more profits, and provide worse TC's to their crews. If you can't see this yourself, than you are part of the problem and culture that needs to change.
You are getting a short term gain, in exchange for long term pain.
Joined: Apr 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,817
Likes: 276
From: United Kingdom
Let's see how much support Norwegian Core or SAS mainland will get from their "colleagues" contracted by OSM or CAE, next time Norwegian Core or SAS mainland goes out into strike, and the contractors and SAIL will be sent to break the strikes?
Last time Norwegians strike lasted around 2 weeks, and still there was s.... sent into break the unions strike, so this is only a loose - loose scenario.
Of course the excuse will always be that you need to follow the union laws of your land, but don't kid yourself that SAS want you to be equal to SAS mainland company, they will rather strive to make SAS mainland equal to SAIL. Less pay, less benefits, downgrade in overall TC's, that's what the ultimate goal is.
Sure you can try to "talk together", but when push comes to shove, SAIL will be spineless, they will be forced to break strikes of their colleagues if sent to cover SAS mainland flights, because SAIL pilots are NOT employed by SAS.
It's called split and conquer. And it's the worst you can do to a colleague in any profession.
What is sad, is not that you take the job, as you probably don't have much choice, this is what there for you, you can't get a better job, the sad bit is that you at can't even acknowledge that this is the cancer of our industry, and we only have ourselves to blame at the end of the day.
SAIL and SAS will never be the same, for the exact reason as explained, that's why it is important for all of us in the industry that companies like SAIL fails, so we can all be offered proper contracts and proper TC's.
It's also important you don't see this as a personal attack, I wish Ryanair also fails, but not because I want people to loose their jobs, rather that management understand that they can't run airlines this way, and that they must restructure the business model. At the moment example Ryanair are forced to make small steps to improve, similar must apply for companies like SAIL, we hope they fail with their business model, and restructure the company to be in line with SAS mainland.
But at the moment they are founded to take away a large part of SAS mainland business, that means they are taking away jobs from people in SAS mainland company, that's the reality.
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 140
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From: Ireland
I wish Ryanair also fails, but not because I want people to loose their jobs, rather that management understand that they can't run airlines this way, and that they must restructure the business model. At the moment example Ryanair are forced to make small steps to improve, similar must apply for companies like SAIL, we hope they fail with their business model, and restructure the company to be in line with SAS mainland.
But at the moment they are founded to take away a large part of SAS mainland business, that means they are taking away jobs from people in SAS mainland company, that's the reality.
But at the moment they are founded to take away a large part of SAS mainland business, that means they are taking away jobs from people in SAS mainland company, that's the reality.
You’re foolish to think Ryanair will become like SAS mainline, and even if they do there’ll be another ULCC behind them to pick up the pieces and keep fares low for the consumer.
SAS Ireland, even with its challenges is helping reduce the cost of flying for SAS by 30%. There’s not a chance they’ll throw that away because of some disgruntled crew members want their six figure salaries and hefty annual leave allowances at the busiest travel times of the year.
Well done to SAS for creating opportunities to increase their business whilst also maintaining a high standard. If you don’t like it, then go somewhere else to work. Nobody cares.
Joined: Apr 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,817
Likes: 276
From: United Kingdom
Management can run companies this way and do run companies this way. Ryanair have created countless pilot jobs by making aviation more accessible to the masses and creating a great foothold for many people to start their careers in aviation. Get your head out of 1970 and realise that your unions’ strangling terms, massive salaries for little productivity have a place in the history books when it comes to aviation. If SAS don’t do it they’ll be run out of business by the likes of Ryanair and Wizz who will. The consumer is voting with their wallet and is forcing everyone to trim costs.
You’re foolish to think Ryanair will become like SAS mainline, and even if they do there’ll be another ULCC behind them to pick up the pieces and keep fares low for the consumer.
SAS Ireland, even with its challenges is helping reduce the cost of flying for SAS by 30%. There’s not a chance they’ll throw that away because of some disgruntled crew members want their six figure salaries and hefty annual leave allowances at the busiest travel times of the year.
Well done to SAS for creating opportunities to increase their business whilst also maintaining a high standard. If you don’t like it, then go somewhere else to work. Nobody cares.
I will actually enjoy the moment SAIL goes bust, after reading such vitriol. As it shows, the divide is greater than ever, those "RyR" pilots who got their chance there, hates the company and are escaping in droves if they get the chance.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 46
From: Between a rock and a hard place
SAS Ireland, even with its challenges is helping reduce the cost of flying for SAS by 30%. There’s not a chance they’ll throw that away because of some disgruntled crew members want their six figure salaries and hefty annual leave allowances at the busiest travel times of the year.
Go right ahead, sell yourself cheap. With comments like that I cannot wait for Brexit to happen sooner rather than later.
Last edited by 172_driver; 4th December 2018 at 17:51.
Joined: Apr 2018
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,817
Likes: 276
From: United Kingdom
So happy news all the way around. May it long continue, so they will offer people proper contracts, or maybe just join SAS instead.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4
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From: Blue Skies
Travelled on SAS Ireland some time ago. So sad, nothing left of good ol’ Scandinavian Airlines except for a logo on the tail. So short sighted of SAS, not much left of their nearly century old reputation.
If you want to compete with the LCC’s, you should do it better than (or at least equal to) the LCC’s. But when the only growth available is eating your own core business, it’s like curing a cancer by lighting up.
Lcc’s like Norwegian had a different and more successful strategy; they both expanded the industry as a whole and also conquered market shares from competitors not limited to air transportation only. But they were flawed as well by too an aggressive expansion plan based on high risk. Investments based on over optimistic future outlook. It’s starting to crumble now in Europe. Or should I say, with Europe.
Hiring corporate jackals to do violent restructuring such as mr. Wångdahl takes these companies nowhere fast. In the religion of free and unregulated competition EU is killing reliable air transport services in the continent.
Solution? Run while you can. Go east young man. Make a bold move, before the gates get flooded.
If you want to compete with the LCC’s, you should do it better than (or at least equal to) the LCC’s. But when the only growth available is eating your own core business, it’s like curing a cancer by lighting up.
Lcc’s like Norwegian had a different and more successful strategy; they both expanded the industry as a whole and also conquered market shares from competitors not limited to air transportation only. But they were flawed as well by too an aggressive expansion plan based on high risk. Investments based on over optimistic future outlook. It’s starting to crumble now in Europe. Or should I say, with Europe.
Hiring corporate jackals to do violent restructuring such as mr. Wångdahl takes these companies nowhere fast. In the religion of free and unregulated competition EU is killing reliable air transport services in the continent.
Solution? Run while you can. Go east young man. Make a bold move, before the gates get flooded.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: London
Ladies and gents,
Does anyone have any info on SAS Ireland interview and simcheck? Captain position. I have assessment tentatively lined up for early April
I also have some info that I'd be happy to share. Would anyone be so kind as to consider reciprocating? :-)
Best regards
UFO-Flying-Airbus
Does anyone have any info on SAS Ireland interview and simcheck? Captain position. I have assessment tentatively lined up for early April
I also have some info that I'd be happy to share. Would anyone be so kind as to consider reciprocating? :-)
Best regards
UFO-Flying-Airbus
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 292
Likes: 1
From: The rock
https://standbynordic.com/sas-strike...ot-talks-fail/
Looks like soon we will find out if theory saying that SAIL was created only as a bargaining tool for next CLA and pay deal agreements negotiations was true or not...
Looks like soon we will find out if theory saying that SAIL was created only as a bargaining tool for next CLA and pay deal agreements negotiations was true or not...