BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 24
From: England
Dare I say it but I think the "it's their train set" argument is giving way little by little 
. I had a strong hunch this was going to happen as the recruitment model is unsustainable and must be costing millions to maintain every year if you think about the logistics of organising visits and repeat visits. Too much of a good thing? Out of my extended circle of friends and acquaintances I don't know of a single person who got through. People want to work for BA but they think twice whenever they have to take 3 separate days off work each separated by anywhere between 1 to 5 weeks. They think twice when they have to pay up to a grand each time just to fly to London for the selection.
. I had a strong hunch this was going to happen as the recruitment model is unsustainable and must be costing millions to maintain every year if you think about the logistics of organising visits and repeat visits. Too much of a good thing? Out of my extended circle of friends and acquaintances I don't know of a single person who got through. People want to work for BA but they think twice whenever they have to take 3 separate days off work each separated by anywhere between 1 to 5 weeks. They think twice when they have to pay up to a grand each time just to fly to London for the selection.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
From: UK
Sorry Juan Tugoh but are you implying the hundreds of guys/gals that don't get through the hoop jumping are incompetent flight crew, or at least of a less standard then those in BA?
What I was implying and or saying is that if BA reject someone - for whatever reason, and then change their mind in order to fill spaces because the schedule is falling falling apart as they have insufficient pilots, then commercial pressure is affecting standards.
I make no comment upon the validity or the worth of those standards. We all know some very capable pilots that have not passed BA's selection process.
Pilots within BA have been telling management they have not had enough pilots for several years. Management blamed all the crewing woes on Bidline, which was then destroyed with BALPAs willing assistance. Now management can no longer blame BLRs and it is still bloody obvious that there are not enough pilots; the desperation is becoming increasingly obvious.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 114
From: UK
Not sure I'm being touchy mate, that's how I took it, and I'm sure that's what you meant anyway- otherwise what is the point of your post, other then to state the obvious? It's called supply and demand, it has an effect on 'standards' as you put it all the time - at least in a lot of other airlines. Perhaps that's what you meant, that BA's recruitment process is always of the same standard and doesn't change, however it was different last year to 2010, so not sure that's true either. It's not like BA are changing their minds on their initial assessment of the person, as far as I have read, people are having to be retested....just sooner then the original 12 months. Hardly worth someone in BA already commenting about the standards are changing, based on what you've said I assume you are in fact happy that the standards are perhaps increasing? That maybe finally, they're using some common sense?
On the flip side to, 'We all know some very capable pilots that have not passed BA's selection process,' I guess we also know some useless ones pass?!
On the flip side to, 'We all know some very capable pilots that have not passed BA's selection process,' I guess we also know some useless ones pass?!
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
From: UK
VJW - I explained what I meant, I really do not care whether you accept it or not. The comment was a reflection on management ineptitude. Dress up your sensitivity anyway you like, you are still being somewhat touchy.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 114
From: UK
Lucky for me, I too care not that you think I'm being touchy.
You explained what you meant, because it needed an explanation. It might well have been about your managements ineptitude, but it still has an undertone of insinuating that any of us fortunate enough to get in having not waited the 12 months, was somehow doing so having not met the recruitment standard (What I was implying and or saying is that if BA reject someone - for whatever reason, and then change their mind in order to fill spaces because the schedule is falling falling apart as they have insufficient pilots, then commercial pressure is affecting standards). They aren't presumably changing their minds, and offering jobs to people that failed. It appears they are retesting people on elements they failed, so unless as Wirbelsturm suggested, they widen the goalposts a little (which no one here will actually know), the recruiting and testing standards to which you refer remain unchanged, the wait period is all that'll change. Is that such a big deal for someone already in BA, who's admitted you're short of crew?
You explained what you meant, because it needed an explanation. It might well have been about your managements ineptitude, but it still has an undertone of insinuating that any of us fortunate enough to get in having not waited the 12 months, was somehow doing so having not met the recruitment standard (What I was implying and or saying is that if BA reject someone - for whatever reason, and then change their mind in order to fill spaces because the schedule is falling falling apart as they have insufficient pilots, then commercial pressure is affecting standards). They aren't presumably changing their minds, and offering jobs to people that failed. It appears they are retesting people on elements they failed, so unless as Wirbelsturm suggested, they widen the goalposts a little (which no one here will actually know), the recruiting and testing standards to which you refer remain unchanged, the wait period is all that'll change. Is that such a big deal for someone already in BA, who's admitted you're short of crew?
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 81
Likes: 1
From: Anywhere
Alright ladies, thank you...
Now BA SH is 100% blind line (am I right in saying that?) what do rosters look life for the latest joiners? Can anybody give an indication of how many forced overnights a typical low seniority FO can expect in a month?
Thanks
Now BA SH is 100% blind line (am I right in saying that?) what do rosters look life for the latest joiners? Can anybody give an indication of how many forced overnights a typical low seniority FO can expect in a month?
Thanks
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Now BA SH is 100% blind line
now that there's the possibility of extra trips being added to lines by the company after provisional roster publication.
Same now applies for Long Haul.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
From: Planet Moo Moo
Perhaps you were both recruited as the result of "commercial pressure"
Can you deny it & prove otherwise? Glass houses & stones etc.......
Can you deny it & prove otherwise? Glass houses & stones etc.......
What is interesting in this case, and thus my comment about moving goalposts, is that the HR department have always been obstinately stubborn about allowing a change to the set down procedures for those who don't pass either the day 1 or day 2 procedures. IIRC the recruitment department has often looked into changing the swimming time in the pool, the time frame between applications, retesting day 1 etc. etc. etc. and it has been resisted as 'it's the BA way'.
What is happening now is that due to the death of Bidline, the move to 34 pay points, the time to command, the BARP pension scheme and the workload on SH there are fewer candidates applying for the role and the 'pig headedness' that used to exist in the system doesn't have a place anymore. Perhaps this is a stark wake up call to senior managers and the board who have always believed that BA is the 'Golden Goose' of the UK airline world that it is no longer seen that way and other companies are just as enticing. If the recruiters are going to fulfill their mandate to the training department they need greater flexibility and thus, I believe, the ability to recall those that fell at a purely test driven hurdle, that may well possibly have just been a bad day, is a good thing. The commercial pressure is generating company side change, finally!
No need for the glazier as no stones were thrown.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Wirbs..
Nail firmly hit on head, most especially the penultimate paragraph.....
Given the factors you mention (all of which I agree with) it will be interesting to see what effect any feedback today's DEPs give to their mates is going to have on future recruitment.
Nail firmly hit on head, most especially the penultimate paragraph.....
Given the factors you mention (all of which I agree with) it will be interesting to see what effect any feedback today's DEPs give to their mates is going to have on future recruitment.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
From: Planet Moo Moo
Just for balance,
For those applying or looking at applying it is a great job with lots of great people and, in my opinion, a relaxed, professional end enjoyable atmosphere to fly in.
It is very busy on SH, so I've been told. LH is a different beast but, if the doom mongers be believed, LH is the next to feel the EASA axe so that might or might not change, we'll see when November comes around!
The first few years on blind lines are undoubtedly tough however the opportunities are there if you can slog it out.
It's a good company but with it's warts, pretty much like any other company. Is it the 'best' employer? Well that depends upon your requirements and your lifestyle choices but it is a good employer.
For those applying or looking at applying it is a great job with lots of great people and, in my opinion, a relaxed, professional end enjoyable atmosphere to fly in.
It is very busy on SH, so I've been told. LH is a different beast but, if the doom mongers be believed, LH is the next to feel the EASA axe so that might or might not change, we'll see when November comes around!
The first few years on blind lines are undoubtedly tough however the opportunities are there if you can slog it out.
It's a good company but with it's warts, pretty much like any other company. Is it the 'best' employer? Well that depends upon your requirements and your lifestyle choices but it is a good employer.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 114
From: UK
Wirbelsturm well said.
I have to wonder though, lots of guys already in BA always imply that while a good employer things can of course be better, i.e. you work hard on SH it seems etc etc. While I'm sure that is of course true, I sometimes would just love for you guys to go work for a Loco for a month and come back and tell me how hard it really is in BA
I have to wonder though, lots of guys already in BA always imply that while a good employer things can of course be better, i.e. you work hard on SH it seems etc etc. While I'm sure that is of course true, I sometimes would just love for you guys to go work for a Loco for a month and come back and tell me how hard it really is in BA
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
From: UK
VJW, I worked for a Loco for over 3 years and can categorically state that the short haul rosters in terms of time in uniform is on par or even worse than a loco roster.
LGW BA short haul roster is uncannily similar to an EZY one.
So am sorry but you are stirring the pot without knowing people's backgrounds
LGW BA short haul roster is uncannily similar to an EZY one.
So am sorry but you are stirring the pot without knowing people's backgrounds
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
From: Planet Moo Moo
I sometimes would just love for you guys to go work for a Loco for a month and come back and tell me how hard it really is in BA
I also have another friend and former colleague who is a line swine Skipper at LGW for Ezy and the rosters are also broadly similar. Ironically the stock line at Ezy is more predictable than the 'new' bidline as BA now have the ability to 'Force Assign' if you have the audacity to bid low to release bank or even fancy a specific day or two off.
On the plus side once the rosters are fixed they are generally bomb proof.
I would assume that bumping 850+ hours a year in SH is pretty busy, it's many years since I was there and it wasn't anywhere near as back breaking as it is now but then that's the world we live in now.
Last edited by Wirbelsturm; 20th May 2015 at 10:52.