BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: London
Is BA the 'holy grail'? No.
Is it the best gig in the UK at the moment? Only person taking the leap can know. I am in BA, have been for 10 years. The first 18 months I wondered what I had done! After about 8 years I got used to it and sure enough, I now think it is great. (Bottom 20% of my current status)
Dont stress at what you can't change. Expect to be in the RHS for at least 10 years. Enjoy the lifestyle.
If you expect either a quick command, to be home every night, or to be anything other than a number, you will be disappointed. If on the other hand you are prepared to work hard and be happy to leave the complete mess that LHR is behind you when you leave the car park, then you will survive it.
One thing is for sure, this industry isn't what it used to be.
Is it the best gig in the UK at the moment? Only person taking the leap can know. I am in BA, have been for 10 years. The first 18 months I wondered what I had done! After about 8 years I got used to it and sure enough, I now think it is great. (Bottom 20% of my current status)
Dont stress at what you can't change. Expect to be in the RHS for at least 10 years. Enjoy the lifestyle.
If you expect either a quick command, to be home every night, or to be anything other than a number, you will be disappointed. If on the other hand you are prepared to work hard and be happy to leave the complete mess that LHR is behind you when you leave the car park, then you will survive it.
One thing is for sure, this industry isn't what it used to be.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
From: Uk
I think you have to work on it being 10-12 years for LHS. Last year was abnormal and a large number got early commands on SH. I don't think it will be repeated like it was because all those new commands will have a 5 year freeze. Retirements are not in any significant number and the fleet growth is fairly flat over the next 4-5 years.
The grass is greener at BA it's just our brown patches are in different places. A friend of mine is a captain at a LOCO and he is happy with his deal. Yes there are issues which are different from BA but he earns a better salary and is home each night. He decided BA was not for him and he is probably right. As for me I have learnt the skill of ignorant bliss and I feel fortunate to fly for BA with all its rights and wrongs. If you take it back to basics the job that pays fairly/well or "market rate" and continues to do so is a good one.
The grass is greener at BA it's just our brown patches are in different places. A friend of mine is a captain at a LOCO and he is happy with his deal. Yes there are issues which are different from BA but he earns a better salary and is home each night. He decided BA was not for him and he is probably right. As for me I have learnt the skill of ignorant bliss and I feel fortunate to fly for BA with all its rights and wrongs. If you take it back to basics the job that pays fairly/well or "market rate" and continues to do so is a good one.
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
From: London
Jax - just to let you know I do plan to depart. Will be rejoining my old outfit in the spring. No complaints at all about BA. It was my choice to give up my command and go to BA. It was a gamble and I haven't enjoyed it. Have no grumbles whatsoever about anyone in the company or gripes about SOPs and the like. It's BA's train set so who am I to question it? Over and out from me.
Edited to add that no one I met in the company has been arrogant - contrary to some posts on here. Training was top notch, very fair and relaxed.
Edited to add that no one I met in the company has been arrogant - contrary to some posts on here. Training was top notch, very fair and relaxed.
Last edited by tommytailwind; 15th December 2016 at 15:50.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 739
Likes: 6
From: York
Tommytailwind
Great post!
I am genuinely pleased that folks can come and take a look at what BA is like ON THE INSIDE! Then go back to their previous employer. My best friend in life did exactly that, and I understand his reasons for returning to the big orange! Everyone's happy! Even the person able to move into his vacancy!
Lot's of comments I could address here, but hey the warm beer, open fire and (non flying!!) friends are calling!
One thing I won't accept though is this. People paid by a customer to teach new joiners the customer's SOPs are unprofessional if they are calling their customer's SOPs, rubbish! They are also speaking from a position of ignorance if they've never used those same procedures in anger.
There's no more wrong with BA's SOP's than are wrong with anyone else's.
That unprofessional and ignorant behaviour definitely needs feeding back to the customer. So thanks for that.
Aviation is a cyclical business. Seven years traditionally from peak to peak. Trough to trough. (With other factors in the meantime!) Make sure you're standing by a good chair when the music stops!!!!
Great post!
I am genuinely pleased that folks can come and take a look at what BA is like ON THE INSIDE! Then go back to their previous employer. My best friend in life did exactly that, and I understand his reasons for returning to the big orange! Everyone's happy! Even the person able to move into his vacancy!
Lot's of comments I could address here, but hey the warm beer, open fire and (non flying!!) friends are calling!
One thing I won't accept though is this. People paid by a customer to teach new joiners the customer's SOPs are unprofessional if they are calling their customer's SOPs, rubbish! They are also speaking from a position of ignorance if they've never used those same procedures in anger.
There's no more wrong with BA's SOP's than are wrong with anyone else's.
That unprofessional and ignorant behaviour definitely needs feeding back to the customer. So thanks for that.
Aviation is a cyclical business. Seven years traditionally from peak to peak. Trough to trough. (With other factors in the meantime!) Make sure you're standing by a good chair when the music stops!!!!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: uk
Everyone is looking for different things and BA may not be for everyone, I am ex military and ex loco captain / training captain and TRE and personally I enjoy BA, I joined 2 years ago at 46 and am a commuter on the minibus fleet, I get one of my top 10 choices every month and get on average 12 days a month at home (in EDI) that said I do bid for llong tours.
I believe that you could pilots in a pub with free beer and free lap dancing (or whatever our female colleagues would prefer!) and as a workforce we would complain as we want lager not bitter and blondes not brunettes...., it's human nature to always think the grass is greener elsewhere.
As an aside I was one of the first to go through CTC, on one occasion the instruction was so bad we (my sim partner and I) stopped the sim ( wrong technique for an EFATO being taught combined with an extremely aggressive attitude for the instructor) he had also spent most of the time slagging off BA and their SOPs so some people may have a bit of a chip on their shoulder.
I believe that you could pilots in a pub with free beer and free lap dancing (or whatever our female colleagues would prefer!) and as a workforce we would complain as we want lager not bitter and blondes not brunettes...., it's human nature to always think the grass is greener elsewhere.
As an aside I was one of the first to go through CTC, on one occasion the instruction was so bad we (my sim partner and I) stopped the sim ( wrong technique for an EFATO being taught combined with an extremely aggressive attitude for the instructor) he had also spent most of the time slagging off BA and their SOPs so some people may have a bit of a chip on their shoulder.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
From: FL370
I'm glad I'm not the only one that experienced this! I was starting to wonder whether it was just me! I reported it to BA at the time and they said they would speak to CTC. I never heard anything back in that regard.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 495
Likes: 0
From: On the side of the pitch!
For me, joined 6 years ago on the 320, far and away best airline I've worked for in terms of work/life balance (worked at two others), now occupy the left seat, have done for 18 months, and still enjoying it! Europe in the summer is fabulous! But then again I'm a positive chap! I do fly with "moaners", who generally just have a negative view on life. BA is NOT a nirvana, how could it be? Nowhere is, but it is better than anywhere else, with so much choice on offer! It's a career job.
As an aside, I'm on blindlines as I'm 88% from the bottom of the C320 list, at stage 1, had the last 3 weekends off, do bugger all flying (50 hours a month). Swapping is easy, as long as you've something to offer the other person.
As an aside, I'm on blindlines as I'm 88% from the bottom of the C320 list, at stage 1, had the last 3 weekends off, do bugger all flying (50 hours a month). Swapping is easy, as long as you've something to offer the other person.
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: UK
They are generally self-employed consultants as I understand it. Certainly a few guys at my airline are "BA checked" and teach BA pilots at CTC. I flew with one a few weeks ago who said they are also required to go through a standards check with a BA trainer before being let loose at CTC, presumably to avoid situations like EMB describes.
Icanseecearly: Good for you, I would have walked out too - far too many people are putting up with sub-standard instruction at CTC.
Icanseecearly: Good for you, I would have walked out too - far too many people are putting up with sub-standard instruction at CTC.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Under the table
I see it's the senior ones who are jumping on here questioning how anyone could be underwhelmed by life at the bottom in BA; the self same who enjoy FS pensions, pp24, high seniority, etc etc... Almost indignant.
Never missed an important family occasion, earn good money, rarely fly at night, home almost every evening and I'm on a run of 11 weekends off in a row.
Not sure about sounding indignant, but I am certainly happier with my life now than I was before joining BA!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: The World
I have to echo Stocious. Been in just over 2 years, right place right time and now I'm LHS Airbus. Home pretty much every night and being paid 30% more than my previous LHS role. Can't complain, with at least two weekends off a month.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 739
Likes: 6
From: York
I've no doubt, that's precisely what stocious would have been told 2 years ago too!
Just as easy to say, don't join Monarch, as the future's not bright!
Any 'prediction' in this business, is no more than a guess.
Just as easy to say, don't join Monarch, as the future's not bright!
Any 'prediction' in this business, is no more than a guess.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: London
I see what your saying and predicting along time in to the future is pointless. But it is fairly clear that for at lest the next few years recruitment will be a fraction of what it has been over the previous, meaning movement up the lists will be much slower so weekend work, nights away and slow command times are a fact of life for any new joiner. Anyone joining 2 or 3 years ago was joining at the begging of a massive wave of recruitment so I doubt they were told the same thing.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
From: Everywhere
For the comments from before that said "If you're based abroad, say in the ME and want to come home, BA would be like a dream." I would just like to say that the wanting to come home bit would be the important part. In Dubai at least, car parking and bus is not of any consequence (chauffeur drive both ways) and the money is excellent despite what's trotted out elsewhere on this forum 
the truth is that everything is a compromise indeed, and the culture may not suit everyone. As an expat I feel much more at home here than I do in the UK. It's simply a matter of what's important to you.
the truth is that everything is a compromise indeed, and the culture may not suit everyone. As an expat I feel much more at home here than I do in the UK. It's simply a matter of what's important to you.
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
From: UK
Excellent post African Dude. As a BA pilot, I like it at BA, but I do fly with some pretty miserable people, who moan quite a lot (and not just the ex-BMI folks!).
I hated my last airline, some people loved it. Personally I'd rather look at the sun through a pair of binoculars than fly for the Arabs. But some folks love it.
I hated my last airline, some people loved it. Personally I'd rather look at the sun through a pair of binoculars than fly for the Arabs. But some folks love it.
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
From: UK
Bloated Stomach, that's not really relevant to this thread, however, having spent many years in the Middle East, I prefer the hard won employment rights and judicial rights we enjoy in European airlines which are absent in those countries.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
I see what your saying and predicting along time in to the future is pointless. But it is fairly clear that for at lest the next few years recruitment will be a fraction of what it has been over the previous, meaning movement up the lists will be much slower so weekend work, nights away and slow command times are a fact of life for any new joiner. Anyone joining 2 or 3 years ago was joining at the begging of a massive wave of recruitment so I doubt they were told the same thing.
It (recruitment) may not be 350+ (and certainly not this year) but it's not going to be a trickle either. There's only 100 or so people joining the company this year but bear in mind that ALL of those people are going to be on the airbus, meaning that all existing A320 P2's will move up the list 15-20% by this time next year. That's not far off what this year's new joiners on the airbus achieved in 2016, because this year there were significant numbers onto other fleets too.
Yes us Airbus P2's won't be moving up the Master Seniority List as fast but what ultimately matters to your quality of lifestyle in the short term is your seniority in your seat/fleet.
