Jet2 Recruiting now
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I too have been invited for an "assessment" on the 14th..
I'm type-rated with lots of jet time and to put it simply, I don'y have a 70% mortgage...so won't be able to do anything other than a full-time contract...we'll see what they offer!
I'm type-rated with lots of jet time and to put it simply, I don'y have a 70% mortgage...so won't be able to do anything other than a full-time contract...we'll see what they offer!
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This whole exercise has developed into an embarrassing and insulting shambles. This two bit outfit, which someone has rather generously described as professional, dangles some positions in front of an ever increasing group of individuals looking for a start or an opportunity to progress in a once great industry.
But instead of setting out their stall cleanly, clearly and honestly, with a fixed set of terms and conditions, they actually commence a fishing expedition, evidenced not least by their telephone "interviews" which primarily consisted of embarrassed individuals trying to elicit what is the minimum package you will accept! And if you should dare to show any interest you might be invited to an assessment day at their shiny HQ (sorry adjacent hotel) Assessment? My a*se. It is only then you might but only might get to learn the shameful details of the package on offer....stuff you should have been able to establish on their website or at least during that phone call. Disgusting and appalling.
On this thread alone, here are obviously many enthusiastic and even suitably qualified pilots but is that enough? Clearly not. Take for example Turkish 777 (if he/she doesn't mind) Type rated and about one season's experience on type. Admittedly, relatively low overall experienced but not insubstantial either and definitely keen, heaven sent one might think for an employer eager to keep costs down but even that's not good enough so he gets a Dear John letter. Either they are getting shed loads of super type rated and experienced guys or they want to cream off the excess from the type rating costs. Evidence on here would suggest it’s not the former.
To those who have "missed" out, I truly hope and believe this will be a good miss in the end (Turkish 777, your TR expiry or LPC to be precise, is not a huge obstacle and can be renewed quite quickly for a few hundred pounds should that be necessary, not ideal but don't give up).
To those who told them to p*ss off (even if just metaphorically) well done.
To those already working for these shysters, don't take this as an attack on you, I know from a wealth of experience that every airline almost always has a great bunch of guys to work with in spite of crap management.
I f you care to look back to my opening post of this thread, I wondered if this was a forward looking company, advertising so early, what a joke. Overall, I think it is absolutely tragic to observe what companies like this are doing to the people in this industry and the hoops they are getting them to jump through just to get a job, not even a good one. I have always believed that good will win in the end but I do have serious doubts sometimes.
But instead of setting out their stall cleanly, clearly and honestly, with a fixed set of terms and conditions, they actually commence a fishing expedition, evidenced not least by their telephone "interviews" which primarily consisted of embarrassed individuals trying to elicit what is the minimum package you will accept! And if you should dare to show any interest you might be invited to an assessment day at their shiny HQ (sorry adjacent hotel) Assessment? My a*se. It is only then you might but only might get to learn the shameful details of the package on offer....stuff you should have been able to establish on their website or at least during that phone call. Disgusting and appalling.
On this thread alone, here are obviously many enthusiastic and even suitably qualified pilots but is that enough? Clearly not. Take for example Turkish 777 (if he/she doesn't mind) Type rated and about one season's experience on type. Admittedly, relatively low overall experienced but not insubstantial either and definitely keen, heaven sent one might think for an employer eager to keep costs down but even that's not good enough so he gets a Dear John letter. Either they are getting shed loads of super type rated and experienced guys or they want to cream off the excess from the type rating costs. Evidence on here would suggest it’s not the former.
To those who have "missed" out, I truly hope and believe this will be a good miss in the end (Turkish 777, your TR expiry or LPC to be precise, is not a huge obstacle and can be renewed quite quickly for a few hundred pounds should that be necessary, not ideal but don't give up).
To those who told them to p*ss off (even if just metaphorically) well done.
To those already working for these shysters, don't take this as an attack on you, I know from a wealth of experience that every airline almost always has a great bunch of guys to work with in spite of crap management.
I f you care to look back to my opening post of this thread, I wondered if this was a forward looking company, advertising so early, what a joke. Overall, I think it is absolutely tragic to observe what companies like this are doing to the people in this industry and the hoops they are getting them to jump through just to get a job, not even a good one. I have always believed that good will win in the end but I do have serious doubts sometimes.
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Also got a phone call today (Thursday) about attending the open day on the 14th, busy flying so unable to go but don't think I would anyway, was told its a 70% deal which is no good at all, I was just polite and asked a couple of questions but not going to quit the other Devil FR on the high rate old brk contract to move to an older aircraft and get a 70% package, likewise my Mortgage is 100% so never going to work unless all my outgoings suddenly accept 70% also.
shame really as base wise it could be good.
also cant see the point of the open days, enough info on here and other places to need to sit for an afternoon with them, offer 100% competitive deal, interview me and offer a job, then we can talk serious.
shame really as base wise it could be good.
also cant see the point of the open days, enough info on here and other places to need to sit for an afternoon with them, offer 100% competitive deal, interview me and offer a job, then we can talk serious.
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Starbear, an excellent post that sums up this Jet2 debacle.
I'm sure the Jet2 Flt Ops people must keep an eye on this topic and I hope they are suitably embarrassed. It's a pity that none of them have the spine to pass on their discomfort to their leader but by all accounts he sounds an unpleasant character - probably a futile exercise.
I know Jet2 don't operate into Coventry but that is where we, the pilot body, should send bottom-feeding outfits like this.
I'm sure the Jet2 Flt Ops people must keep an eye on this topic and I hope they are suitably embarrassed. It's a pity that none of them have the spine to pass on their discomfort to their leader but by all accounts he sounds an unpleasant character - probably a futile exercise.
I know Jet2 don't operate into Coventry but that is where we, the pilot body, should send bottom-feeding outfits like this.
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I must admit Jet2 were a company I liked the idea of working for. This so called recruitment exercise has changed my view on that now. Their whole recruitment process just seems to be a poorly planned attempt to see what they can get away with. Thats not the way to build a happy, loyal workforce.
The only good thing I see about it is it will take a load of people out there willing to throw £1000's at getting what is at the end of the day a job, out of the market. This may lead to better offers from the other airlines when they start recruiting. Im assuming that is part of their plan. Get the people with deep pockets whilst they can.
Respect to all of those who turned them down, other airlines will be watching and hopefully taking note.
The only good thing I see about it is it will take a load of people out there willing to throw £1000's at getting what is at the end of the day a job, out of the market. This may lead to better offers from the other airlines when they start recruiting. Im assuming that is part of their plan. Get the people with deep pockets whilst they can.
Respect to all of those who turned them down, other airlines will be watching and hopefully taking note.
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Good post Starbear 
And contrary to my user name (A character from the film Snatch) I am English born and bread so a native speaker, ICAO level 6 so it wasnt a case of that. And like you said I thought I was quite a good candidate.
Thanks for the comment regarding the TR. Its just the IR expires with it which is a pain as most requirements for vacancies require a valid IR. And being unemployed I just dont have the money to hire out the SIM.
And contrary to my user name (A character from the film Snatch) I am English born and bread so a native speaker, ICAO level 6 so it wasnt a case of that. And like you said I thought I was quite a good candidate.
Thanks for the comment regarding the TR. Its just the IR expires with it which is a pain as most requirements for vacancies require a valid IR. And being unemployed I just dont have the money to hire out the SIM.
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Nice one, thanks Yorkshire-Pud, makes me feel more confident.
Weird email address I got the PFO from [email protected]
Bond Test??? Maybe it is all a test to see whose willing...or a matter of getting the feelers out???
Weird email address I got the PFO from [email protected]
Bond Test??? Maybe it is all a test to see whose willing...or a matter of getting the feelers out???
Last edited by Turkish777; 8th Oct 2010 at 10:37.
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Starbear
What can they possibly tell you at the information day? Nothing.
The Jet2 Flt Ops people should be embarrassed about their assessment centre and the rest of the recruitment exercise.
Tech questions were badly formulated with the use of ( ... ) parentheses, sometimes type and company specific and a few times there were no correct answers possible or lacking info.
Candidates were offered different packages and payscales.
One got offered 100% contract, others 70%.
First you pay 20k quid for the TR, two days later 25k.
What can they possibly tell you at the information day? Nothing.
The Jet2 Flt Ops people should be embarrassed about their assessment centre and the rest of the recruitment exercise.
Tech questions were badly formulated with the use of ( ... ) parentheses, sometimes type and company specific and a few times there were no correct answers possible or lacking info.
Candidates were offered different packages and payscales.
One got offered 100% contract, others 70%.
First you pay 20k quid for the TR, two days later 25k.
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Well said, Starbear. Words I particularly liked were: "disgusting", "apalling", "crap management", and "shysters"!
Work for this bunch only if you absolutely have to; they have disgraced themselves and the crews who already work for them. Better jobs are out there. Much better.
Work for this bunch only if you absolutely have to; they have disgraced themselves and the crews who already work for them. Better jobs are out there. Much better.
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I think that people who know nothing of the company or management should refrain from using such words personally.
Whether you agree or not with the choices made by management is one thing, but to publically slate them in such a manner is totally unprofessional.
The economic state of the industry dictates the market and until recently Jet2 were THE ONLY airline recruiting in the UK, so why should they not try and get people in on reduced contracts? The people that came in on 70% this summer were happy to do so and have now been offered 100% permanent contracts. Where is the issue in that?
The industry changed for the worse a few years ago and I don't personally agree with the changes we have seen, but Jet2 remain a good company to work for and I won't sit back and see them be described by some of the words used in this thread. It is not only offensive to me, but also my colleagues.
End of rant.
Whether you agree or not with the choices made by management is one thing, but to publically slate them in such a manner is totally unprofessional.
The economic state of the industry dictates the market and until recently Jet2 were THE ONLY airline recruiting in the UK, so why should they not try and get people in on reduced contracts? The people that came in on 70% this summer were happy to do so and have now been offered 100% permanent contracts. Where is the issue in that?
The industry changed for the worse a few years ago and I don't personally agree with the changes we have seen, but Jet2 remain a good company to work for and I won't sit back and see them be described by some of the words used in this thread. It is not only offensive to me, but also my colleagues.
End of rant.
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A Student of Jet2?
Starbear is correct and accurate in his/her description of this company.You are trying to make escuses for this type of behaviour on "Market conditions". Just because one can get away with exploiting and making a mockery of what used to be a respected proffession to the benefit of very rich CEO,s and shareholders does not make it acceptable. There used to be principles of decency,integrity and respect. Shame on you and all the other "pilots" who advocate this conduct.
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I quite clearly state that I do not agree with the changes being made, however I can see why they have been implemented. So I am not shameful in the slightest. All I am stating is that some of the terms used in this thread to describe the company are quite embarrassing.
The industry started going downhill when people started paying for type ratings and I am one of them. I hated having to do it, but If it were not for me writing the cheque, I would be an unemployed pilot with a f-atpl and very little chance of ever getting a job.
Jet2 are trying to survive and prosper in a very competitive market and not go the way of a few of our other UK airlines who are no longer with us. They are creating jobs when there have been none and ensuring the futures of their existing work force. I don't have to agree with the way its being done, but "shysters" is a very strong word.
The industry started going downhill when people started paying for type ratings and I am one of them. I hated having to do it, but If it were not for me writing the cheque, I would be an unemployed pilot with a f-atpl and very little chance of ever getting a job.
Jet2 are trying to survive and prosper in a very competitive market and not go the way of a few of our other UK airlines who are no longer with us. They are creating jobs when there have been none and ensuring the futures of their existing work force. I don't have to agree with the way its being done, but "shysters" is a very strong word.
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The economic state of the industry dictates the market and until recently Jet2 were THE ONLY airline recruiting in the UK, so why should they not try and get people in on reduced contracts?
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Just another student
You are entitled to your opinion just as I am but addtitionally I try not to chuck words around too lightly:
shy·ster (sh
st
r)n. Slang An unethical, unscrupulous practitioner, especially of law.
Jet2 as I indicated earlier in this thread have always been cheapskates (for that read greedy), I recall their start up terms and conditions (in a good market) do you? Short answer is, they were WELL below the market norm for the time but they got some people, probably on the same basis as now but others, who were keen for a first command. So this present insult has nothing to do with the present economic situation.
The UK charter (or even semi-scheduled) model has always been the same, for as far back as I can recall. It is simplicity itself to fill any number of aeroplanes in the summer. The great difficulty is the winter of course and that's where the more mature companies had to improve to succeed as will any others. But did they start of with such appalling and insulting terms? No they did not.
I think you need to open your mind a little more. You have stated that you don't necessarily agree with what they are doing but in the next breath you said
That is an appalling indictement. When you say that Jet2 are creating jobs, what do you mean by that? Are they "creating" jobs to help take pilots off the market or are the jobs being created due to their expansion plans to earn more money for them. Although the net effect is the same for an unemployed pilot, they are not the same thing. Please don't preach as if the likes of Jet 2 are being altruistic.
Jet2 not only want to pay bottom dollar, they want to 70% of bottom dollar as well as force would be employees to front up for their own training above and beyond that already paid out. Why do they do this? Because they can. And rather sadly you defend that viewpoint.
I take back not one word of how I have described this airline's management (see earlier post for exceptions) and you mustn't assume that there are not people posting here who just may know a bit about these people and this industry.
Man is not judged by his words or thoughts alone but by his actions.
shy·ster (sh
str)n. Slang An unethical, unscrupulous practitioner, especially of law.Jet2 as I indicated earlier in this thread have always been cheapskates (for that read greedy), I recall their start up terms and conditions (in a good market) do you? Short answer is, they were WELL below the market norm for the time but they got some people, probably on the same basis as now but others, who were keen for a first command. So this present insult has nothing to do with the present economic situation.
The UK charter (or even semi-scheduled) model has always been the same, for as far back as I can recall. It is simplicity itself to fill any number of aeroplanes in the summer. The great difficulty is the winter of course and that's where the more mature companies had to improve to succeed as will any others. But did they start of with such appalling and insulting terms? No they did not.
I think you need to open your mind a little more. You have stated that you don't necessarily agree with what they are doing but in the next breath you said
Jet2 were THE ONLY airline recruiting in the UK, so why should they not try and get people in on reduced contracts
Jet2 not only want to pay bottom dollar, they want to 70% of bottom dollar as well as force would be employees to front up for their own training above and beyond that already paid out. Why do they do this? Because they can. And rather sadly you defend that viewpoint.
I take back not one word of how I have described this airline's management (see earlier post for exceptions) and you mustn't assume that there are not people posting here who just may know a bit about these people and this industry.
Man is not judged by his words or thoughts alone but by his actions.
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I completely agree with Starbear. The fact that they only increased the 70% contracts to 100% AFTER the busy summer whilst paying 1/12th of 70% salary each month shows that they have no morals. How can they be a good company to work for, when they treat you like this????
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My point of view is simple. I do not agree with the degredation of t&c's for pilots that we have seen over the past few years. I do not agree with pilots being offered 70% contracts and having to pay for training etc however given the state of the industry over the past 2 years or so, I can see why they are trying to employ cheaper pilots. Summer demand versus a quiet winter, I do get it and I don't think that people should be asked to work flat out over the summer and then take a cut over the winter.
Nobody is forcing guys to take the contract, it is there own personal choice and as I stated before, people that have joined in the past have been offered 100% permanent deals, as they rightly should be.The point regarding not being back paid for the summer months, I can not comment on at all as I am not aware of the situation.
Jet2 are not the highest payers, but then they have not made people redundant or attempted to force pay cuts on their work force during this economic turmoil.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course and I know there are people on here who do know what they're talking about. However I just find the word "shyster" when used to describe my employers as distasteful, whether or not I agree or disagree with the way recruitment has been handled.
Nobody is forcing guys to take the contract, it is there own personal choice and as I stated before, people that have joined in the past have been offered 100% permanent deals, as they rightly should be.The point regarding not being back paid for the summer months, I can not comment on at all as I am not aware of the situation.
Jet2 are not the highest payers, but then they have not made people redundant or attempted to force pay cuts on their work force during this economic turmoil.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course and I know there are people on here who do know what they're talking about. However I just find the word "shyster" when used to describe my employers as distasteful, whether or not I agree or disagree with the way recruitment has been handled.
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Starbear i am assuming that you will not be accepting the contract that Jet2 offered you ?
Oh hang on are you going to tell us you didn't apply and would never work for such degrading terms and conditions, but are standing on the sidelines supporting pilots conditions generally ?? I think we can do that ourselves than you very much.
Lets lay a few facts on the table, Thomsonfly pilots accepted i believe a 5-7% pay cut so in effect were working for 95% salary for one year and next year the management sacked the bottom 100. However the threat of redundancy for approx 6 months forced many to seek jobs in the so called "sandpit". The threat of redundancy forced many to jump before they were pushed. Excel great terms and conditions are no more. Flightline mis managed growth led to a financial situation that eventually led to the demise of an airline.
Now if you were to ask those pilots ,who lost jobs that led to relocation of families abroad or even worse to total loss of income, would you work for 70% with an almost cast iron (as much as there can be ) assurance they will have a job in two years time i think i know which option they would take.
I see BMI made such losses this week that one Accountants view was they couldn't see how they would continue as a going concern and Lufty are only putting £60million into the business. Again more pilots who must be sat at home wondering which way to turn next. I have been in an airline that has gone "bust" recently and i know how awful it feels and how desperate that feels as well and i personally do not want that to happen at jet2.
The government is about to announce a spending review that will effectively make thousands redundant. Those made redundant will not be taking their second holiday which is traditionally a winter break. The amount of free cash floating around this country in the next 12 months will dwindle and therefore you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that holiday demand and demand for flights may dwindle. Therefore the prudent sensible airline tailors its growth to the predicted set of financial conditions in the coming 12-24 months.
The point i am making is that aviation may look as though it is recovering, its all smoke and mirrors as i think its as fragile as it has ever been. The pilot employment market is recovering if you wish to work in the Middle East. BA offering 80 jobs, Virgin offering "a handful" according to the internal memo is not a recovery in the UK pilots jobs market.
So back to Jet2, i actually see it as unfortunately necessary to grow slowly and pay pilots proportionally to the work demand ( that sensible growth ensures the jobs of the other current pilot employees are secure). At the moment that demand is Summer and not winter for the reasons stated above. So surely financial prudence dictates that you employ the most expensive element of your business ie pilots when you need them. You tailor your recruitment to your demand, if the demand grows then you offer those pilots further 100% work, surely that is prudent management of an airline in demanding economic times ???
I know the Cpilot and both Fleet Captains would want to offer full time 100% contracts they are reasonable people who understand the demands on both pilots and their family. However if the winter is quiet with very little flying you are expecting pilots to be paid to be sat at home? Personally as an employee i would see that as completely irresponsible to the future security of the company. However i hope that work appears and all people will be offered 100% contracts Jet2 is a company that changes quickly and they have a habit of pulling work in at short notice.
The word "unethical" was used, it would have been unethical to offer people 100% and after they have joined tell them that sorry only 70% now due to reduction in winter schedule. There is nothing unethical laying the terms and conditions of each offer out to each candidate who has an offer of employment made to them. Perhaps the process has not looked perfect, however i should imagine it was responding to the changing requirements for winter crew as the work plan for winter changed.
Oh hang on are you going to tell us you didn't apply and would never work for such degrading terms and conditions, but are standing on the sidelines supporting pilots conditions generally ?? I think we can do that ourselves than you very much.
Lets lay a few facts on the table, Thomsonfly pilots accepted i believe a 5-7% pay cut so in effect were working for 95% salary for one year and next year the management sacked the bottom 100. However the threat of redundancy for approx 6 months forced many to seek jobs in the so called "sandpit". The threat of redundancy forced many to jump before they were pushed. Excel great terms and conditions are no more. Flightline mis managed growth led to a financial situation that eventually led to the demise of an airline.
Now if you were to ask those pilots ,who lost jobs that led to relocation of families abroad or even worse to total loss of income, would you work for 70% with an almost cast iron (as much as there can be ) assurance they will have a job in two years time i think i know which option they would take.
I see BMI made such losses this week that one Accountants view was they couldn't see how they would continue as a going concern and Lufty are only putting £60million into the business. Again more pilots who must be sat at home wondering which way to turn next. I have been in an airline that has gone "bust" recently and i know how awful it feels and how desperate that feels as well and i personally do not want that to happen at jet2.
The government is about to announce a spending review that will effectively make thousands redundant. Those made redundant will not be taking their second holiday which is traditionally a winter break. The amount of free cash floating around this country in the next 12 months will dwindle and therefore you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that holiday demand and demand for flights may dwindle. Therefore the prudent sensible airline tailors its growth to the predicted set of financial conditions in the coming 12-24 months.
The point i am making is that aviation may look as though it is recovering, its all smoke and mirrors as i think its as fragile as it has ever been. The pilot employment market is recovering if you wish to work in the Middle East. BA offering 80 jobs, Virgin offering "a handful" according to the internal memo is not a recovery in the UK pilots jobs market.
So back to Jet2, i actually see it as unfortunately necessary to grow slowly and pay pilots proportionally to the work demand ( that sensible growth ensures the jobs of the other current pilot employees are secure). At the moment that demand is Summer and not winter for the reasons stated above. So surely financial prudence dictates that you employ the most expensive element of your business ie pilots when you need them. You tailor your recruitment to your demand, if the demand grows then you offer those pilots further 100% work, surely that is prudent management of an airline in demanding economic times ???
I know the Cpilot and both Fleet Captains would want to offer full time 100% contracts they are reasonable people who understand the demands on both pilots and their family. However if the winter is quiet with very little flying you are expecting pilots to be paid to be sat at home? Personally as an employee i would see that as completely irresponsible to the future security of the company. However i hope that work appears and all people will be offered 100% contracts Jet2 is a company that changes quickly and they have a habit of pulling work in at short notice.
The word "unethical" was used, it would have been unethical to offer people 100% and after they have joined tell them that sorry only 70% now due to reduction in winter schedule. There is nothing unethical laying the terms and conditions of each offer out to each candidate who has an offer of employment made to them. Perhaps the process has not looked perfect, however i should imagine it was responding to the changing requirements for winter crew as the work plan for winter changed.
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Captainkingkong, well said.
I enjoyed my time at Jet2 the crews were great, but no matter how ethical the managers are (i have my own opinions here) I think they find it very difficult to manage whilst PM keeps micro managing.
The terms are there to accept or decline, the choice is yours. Me I chose to move on, shame really it wouldnt have taken much to have kept me there.
I enjoyed my time at Jet2 the crews were great, but no matter how ethical the managers are (i have my own opinions here) I think they find it very difficult to manage whilst PM keeps micro managing.
The terms are there to accept or decline, the choice is yours. Me I chose to move on, shame really it wouldnt have taken much to have kept me there.
Last edited by 757flyer; 8th Oct 2010 at 21:45.