easyJet/CTC Cadet Pilot Slavery Contract

[TheBeak]

My opinions are my opinions and I have always offered them with the best of intentions. Most have said they agree with the sentiment and don't like how it is said. I can be blunt - but it's for the sake of clarity. For the sake of impact. It sticks. It's important that it does. I shaln't comment any more, I don't want to aggravate people - genuinely, though at times it has been a mildly amusing bi-product. As for how I can post whilst at work - I have a computer at work and I post in between transactions and have breaks - don't be suspicious and don't be bizarre, you're not my boss. Enjoy your thread, all the best, farewell on this one.

[al446]

farewell on this one.

If I thought such an entity existed I would thank god for that. That's the second thread he has retired from in the last couple of days, other was re Manchester a/p.

[wanabe2010]

Its these motivated and well selected people who are now starting the courses.

Its these motivated and well selected people who are now starting the courses and WILL be standing very soon on the side walk with mommy and daddy after being kicked out by a motivated airline like easyjet who took their money by telling them they will have NO MINIMUM hours.

wooow, no minimum hours...!!! here my cheque!

[TheBeak]

That's the second thread he has retired from in the last couple of days, other was re Manchester a/p.

You are a terrible liar - I have never commented on any such thing and haven't 'retired' from any threads in the last few days. Please paste a link so we can all see my 'other comments' on Manchester Airport. As I said, truly goodbye on this and the Oxford thread.

I have checked your Manchester thread: Roy Hudd is your man and in my opinion he talks nothing but sense - so I am not offended by your inability to read.

[go around flaps15]

His posts can be quite inaccurate at times(I have noticed in a reply to one of mine) so I would not worry too much about that Beak!

[al446]

You are, of course, correct Beak but to brand me a liar is over egging it. A lie is a deliberate falsification whereas this inaccuracy was a simple mistake caused by haste and the same feeling of relief I felt I felt when I read Roy Hudd's last post, so you may blame it in part on the similarity.

Go around, I apologise for any inaccuracies there may have been in past posts, as above I do not seek to distort but if confusion arises due to haste it can be ascribed to passion of argument.

[go around flaps15]

That is a Fair point al446. I am sometimes guilty of that myself to be honest.

[al446]

Thank you Go around.

[BigNumber]

This has been an emotive thread and the catalyst for many pages of lively debate.

Beak's posts are fueled with passion, often blunt and usually serve succinctly paraphrase what many of us are thinking.

Perhaps if there were more 'Beaks' in this world the PTF cancer that has so divided our creed would not have got a 'foothold'?

I am saddened that the irrelevant sensibilities of a few 'Precious Lovies' has secured an 'early bath' from our most ardent outspoken contributor. Not only does his absence weaken the thread but it dilutes the voice of reason.

I'm off to bleach my hair, get an earring, and book 2 week's in Benidorm for me and 'Beyonce'! I hear that the flights are going to be heavily subsidised this summer.

You might be interested to learn that I have actually met one of these EZY 'Ruperts' ( and his exceedingly proud Dad ); I wasn't disappointed.

[captplaystation]

What happened to Meerkat Enterprises latest thread detailing the "Brookfieldisation" of the CTC "offer "

Too much detail ?

Well, if it won't reveal who you are perhaps you could repost it here if it was merely the mods objecting to a 3rd thread on the subject.

How many different flavours of sh1t can these nasty little parasite training establishments invent to please the slimy little beanies running Sleazy jet ? Smells like sh1t / tastes like sh1t/ looks like sh1t, is it likely to be roses ?

Another week, another unbeatable "offer".

[his3dmw]

The meerkat thread was removed at the request of those who have been effected by the new offer, we are considering all options available to us currently and the posting of terms on here potentially compromises our position.

I would like to appeal to your professionalism, and request that you respect our wishes until such time as we can begin to resolve what is a very serious issue.

Regards

[captplaystation]

No probs, hope you can reach an agreement between you, perhaps a mass lack of interest would see them revised upwards, but then again maybe not

[oates76]

Guys, I am a CTC cadet, and just hope that the current EZ crews see how damaging this all is to their own careers. Maybe not now, but these sorts of contract terms will inch their way up and up until you are all facing similar contracts, unless you do something now. The only power I, or any cadet has in this situation is to pass on the contract, but that means NOTHING. The guys before me and behind me will say yes, as they have no other options aside from going bankrupt at Tesco. And even if CTC cadets somehow managed a united no, EZ would just got to OAA, FTE etc etc etc. You are the only ones with any power in this situation, and I hope that efforts are being made to put a stop to this before it becomes not just a small part of easyJets HR process, but how the entire company operates. I just hope that it is not too late already.

NSF, please don't paint us all with one brush. We very much appreciate the work done behind the scenes, and in no way are all wannabes represented by one outspoken voice on these forums. We really do appreciate that you current flight crew take the time to participate in discussion topics such as this one.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

we are considering all options available to us currently and the posting of terms on here potentially compromises our position.

Why? Because you have been told that the offer is "strictly confidential"? ThieveasyJet and HSBCTC don't want anyone else to know because the offer is appalling and if it is posted on a forum such as this then the pilot community at ezy, and in general, will be aware of it. This means Balpa will also be made aware. If you guys want our help then we need to know what sort of crap the ezy management are trying to pull. Our Balpa reps need facts to work with. Whoever decided to get abusive with the meerkat is letting the rest of the cadets down, because as NSF mentioned, people will stop offering support. It isn't easy to sell cheap car insurance and fight your corner at the same time.

just hope that the current EZ crews see how damaging this all is to their own careers

Don't worry oates, we are all too aware...

[TRon]

Oates,

I don't think NSF was in any way attacking you.

I think we all don't like to see these T&C's. We all know it is not good for any of us. I know getting anything done is going to be VERY hard. I know I will be flying with many of you out of LGW. You certainly won't get a frosty reception from me or any of the Capt's or Training Capts (well maybe a few but you'd of got that anyway ). You will be treated the same as any colleague, with respect, dignity and you can actually pick the fuel on your sector

I think what we all hate is the game, rather than the player. If I was in your shoes I wouldn't go for it..But that's just me with a different perspective..

There are many on here slating OAA & CTC Cadets but the short fact is if you have the resources then there are always people willing to accept any deal when there are plenty behind you. It is the perfect competition micro-economic model all over. Supply meets demand..

I have a long duty tomorrow. I am taking in my Laptop and I am going to write an email to Andy Harrison on exactly this subject. I am going to send abridged copies it to the CAA, CHIRP, My MP, Transport Secretary and anyone else who will listen. I think this is disgusting and the thin end of the wedge. I just hope some of our EZY colleagues do similar.

BALPA are between a rock and a hard place. The only thing going to stop further degradation is regulation. Sadly, Aviation is a soft target..Anyway here goes..

[rusty_y2k2]

Norman:

I am saddened to hear that... I would hope that both yourself and the venerable Meerkat are able to differentiate between one abusive message and a collective of "dorks".

I would ask both of you to please not write everyone off based on a single such occurrence. Whilst I am hesitant to make excuses for whomever it was, the pressures of the situation in which we find ourselves affect individuals differently. Not everyone is as calm and collected as they would like to be and emotions perhaps boiled over. Even so what transpired is regrettable and for what little it is worth I extend my apology that he was subjected to an attack for trying to help.

The good news is that some are finally willing to make some sort of stand against this rapid race to the bottom and I can only hope that they receive the support required to make it count, otherwise it may end up an exercise in futility and self sacrifice.

If you are in contact with Alexander I would kindly ask you to extend the sentiments of this post to him, as I feel it is a shame to burn bridges over one person's a mistake at such a critical time.

[Fear and Loathing...]

While we want as many people as possible to be aware of our problem, we wish to respect the wishes of CTC and not disclose the full details of the contract while we are negotiating. I extend my thanks to Mr Meerkat and all those who offer support, it is greatly appreciated and greatly needed.

I would also like to offer an apology to Mr Meerkat, however hot peoples' emotions run, being abusive is never helpful. I hope a personal apology has already reached him.

TRon - thank you for your comments, look forward to flying with you, hopefully very soon

[Adios]

It seems to me that the hourly rate offered CTCers through ARL was a lot less than the one offered to the OAA batch. It might be a stretch to assume that EZ pay both contract agencies the same hourly rates, but I'll bet they do. So was ARL pocketing the difference themselves? Let's hope the Meerkat's side by side comparison threads have borne fruit and gave the cadets a bigger lever.

Does anyone know who owns ARL?

Can an original poster remove a thread or is it only PPrune mods that have the power and software tools to do this?

[captplaystation]

Much as many (even NSF) lay (at least partially) the blame on those who choose to accept the cr@p on offer, deep down any one with some imagination can see who the bogey men here really are.
Much as I loathe the regulators for not interfering, really, if the aircraft are not falling out of the sky on a regular basis what can they do ?
And the training providers ? well, they have the choice, sing to the tune & "he who pays the piper names the tune", or be replaced by one who will.
So, unsurprisingly the 1 & only bad guy here is your employer.
They , and they alone, want this, nay , demand it, of OAT/CTC.

The other uncomfortable fact is that the only one who can do an iota to change it, are those who are needed to keep the treadmill running. . . the LTC'S/TRI's.
Totally unreasonable to expect them to act unilaterally so it's down to the whole pilot body to rebel, or live to regret.
You have the perfect future projection there, in yer face, if you look at Ryanair.
No union, far far too many contractors, everyone on different conditions.
You are already too far down this road with German/Spanish contracts anyhow. If you allow the position of F/O to become effectively a "contract" position, next, Capt, next Capt upgrade, next goodbye existing Capt's , next . . . you tell me ?
The existing workforce are going to have to fight the corner of those who cannot fight for themselves , or live to regret it when it comes around to bite them in the ass. They are the only ones who have any clout/ability to rock the boat. The guys on the outside can do nothing, they just want a foot in the door at any price.
The new BALPA chairman is an Easy Capt for chrissakes, WTF is he doing about this ?
Guys & Gals, this is one big bullet to bite, but if you don't you are as fecked as the blue & yellow team.
Yes they are home every night, but every year it gets worse,in every respect, and your situation will too, if you don't stop it in its tracks NOW.



Adios, instigator of thread can delete whole thread, other posters only their own posts.

[Adios]

Captplaystation,

Would it be legal for EZ pilots to call a strike to support these non-union contract pilots? I am not asking you to speculate whether BALPA would ever ballot it's EZ members or to prognosticate the outcome of such a ballot if it happened. Is there any legal basis that a strike could be called? What basis would or could EZ's solicitors challenge the strike on if the ballot were properly and legally managed?

The total fees paid by a batch of 20 of these wannabes is less than £1Million and even a 3 day walkout could cost the company 10-20 times that, while simultaneously focusing the public's mind on the fight.

The regulators won't act unless there is a body count or a public outcry and the public doesn't even know what is going on.
The high street banks will keep doing what high street banks do unless the regulators stop them (see first bullet).
The Training Captain's are paid to train and will be replaced if they don't.
The FTOs want their grads employed instead of someone else's and won't unite to say no to EZ.
The banks of Mum and Dad won't unite because they want Rupert to at least have a bit of money coming in to help keep them and him under their roof (I also don't assume, like some, that all of the wannabes borrowed £80K to get their CPL/IR).
The wannabes who don't need bank of Mum and Dad will be at the head of the queue with nothing but a botched interview to keep their foot off the first rung of the ladder.
EZ will keep doing what they do and this won't be the end of it.

So it really comes down to the flight deck crews and union and what leverage they can muster, though I will certainly understand that they might not want to lay all their cards out on PPrune for EZ managers to see.